DeeSpencer

ANB needs to just go back to winning the ball and not worry so much about what comes next. His worst mistakes have been attempted kick off the grounds and not the same clean hands (and clean tackling) as last year. He has a side step and a funny little kick that works for him and can handball pretty well, so I'll cop some bad turnovers if he can just win the ball cleanly again. Same thing is true of Jayden Hunt, just win the ball first, worry about what happens after that next.

McIntosh and Grigg run the wings for the Tigers and are high quality ball butchers. Kane Lambert plays the high half forward/midfield role and for his first couple of seasons he would spud it up as well. Castagna is a defender playing forward who can't kick for goal and makes dumb choices around the ground. Townsend is a cheat and a scrubber, nice shot for goal but holds his man all the time and otherwise does nothing but cheap shot tackles. They are strong over the ball and they are good athletes - quick, fit and strong. But otherwise they aren't exactly skilled. Stretch, Tyson, ANB, Harmes and Melksham filled those roles for us. Stretch, ANB and Harmes were particularly disappointing, whilst Tyson had good and bad. ANB and Stretch covered the most ground for us. Stretch, ANB then Harmes did the most high speed running. Harmes had our most tackles. As role players they did a lot of what they were supposed to do. I wish they were better but maybe the gap between us and the Tigers isn't that there role players are better but at the other end. Role players always look better in winning sides. Consider the top end talent: Petracca is no Dusty. Salem can't seem to keep his impact up for a full game and even he found the Tigers pressure hot after 1/4 time Oliver can't get anything fluent with Gawn and can't find a target from his kicks Hogan made some bad decisions by hand and foot and missed goals Garlett was a steaming pile of trash on a night when Higgins kicks 3 at the other end.

I'm a Wagner fan but he didn't win the ball, didn't punch with conviction, doesn't tackle, doesn't intercept and how often does he break the lines and attack? I like Wagner but he seems to have won guys over by just returning to a basic level of competence. Hibberd, Hunt and Brayshaw offer more as flankers and I think we need Jetta, Lever and 2 big guys against Essendon. I also don't want to see James Stewart kick 5 on Lever and have to start him right back from the start. Maybe Vince and Brayshaw go in to the midfield and that frees up a defensive spot for the tall. Or maybe they just back Lever in. I'm not sold on it like the forwards changes but we the allowance for a 2nd tall I think we have 7 defenders better. With the short break it might come down to who's up and running, I certainly have concerns with Hibberd and Jetta but I'm hoping they are right to go.

He's small and light so I get he doesn't want to take the ball in the middle of heavy traffic but the problem is he's now extended his range of 'close combat' to about 15m from an opponent. He had a chance to run in to an open goal in the first quarter and now can't even manage to paddle the ball and keep it moving to pick it up. He's done.

Richmond at the MCG are the fittest, fastest and easily best team in the comp. I watched Geelong, Adelaide and GWS all play the same game we did against the Tigers last year in the finals. Want to spread it more against the Tigers pressure and work rate, good luck. Reacting to slippery conditions and a bad game where we over possessed the ball last week we were always going to play pretty safe but at least we had the ball moving faster. The 3rd quarter (and parts of the first and 2nd) showed it's not actually a cardinal sin to go long down the line if you have the talls and smalls in the right spot. Our hands aren't slick enough around the contest and we don't have the class on the outside to nail the kick that opens up the play. Besides that we need to work on our team work with men up and down but the side has and will keep changing and it can't all be fixed over night. Tonight was far better than the Hawthorn game obviously and not out of line with our first 3 weeks. Heck it might even have been better.

Out: Kent (inj), Garlett, Wagner In: Fritsch, Spargo, Petty Need the extra tall down back against the Bombers and really I don't see the point of playing Frost. Given the young kid a chance. Desperately need to change up the small forwards. Harmes and Melksham can stay deep, give Fritsch a chance to roam the flanks and use his class. I'm frustrated by ANB and Stretch. I wish they were doing more and making less mistakes. But who do we have at Casey who can run? No one! The reason we stayed with the Tigers for 3/4 - because Stretch and ANB were out there running all game. I'll take that over the other options which involve loading our midfield up with guys who can't run! Tommy Mc can go to Casey and get some form in limited minutes if he's right to play. Weid's was very good tonight and deserves the chance to show what he can do again.

He's been garbage since mid year last year and feasting on a bad backline when we were moving it in regularly and with ease doesn't change that. Has to go.

Far far better tonight playing a lot of half back. That's where he should play. Let the game come to him, win some contests, make smart decisions with the ball. Can move on to the wing in the second half. No idea why he wasn't given the half back spot to start the year after 3 promising games to finish last year but hopefully he stays there now. Some mistakes, but also a lot of really strong contests in the air and on the ground and some smart footy.

There has to be a question about the value of zone defending but if you are to do it the major problem is midfield and forward pressure. Teams are getting quicker and moving the ball much faster, that's the Richmond effect. They're also conditioned to facing zone defending. They've come up against it since about 2014 if not before. The inexperienced teams that are learning the zone defence now - Brisbane and Carlton particularly - are getting destroyed. What do we have to do to fix it: 1. Backline: Tighten the zone up and live with more one on ones if need be. If you're playing infront it's 3m infront not 10. Hunt for Frost is the obvious in for Richmond but that alone won't solve all our problems especially given Hunt is likely still a fair way from his best. Got to keep building the trust and communication between the defenders to get the balance right between who's up and who's down. And the backs have to stop feeling sorry for themselves once the ball is one the deck and work out how they'll support the guy who gets the ball. The ball carrier was a sitting duck against the Hawks, there was no one pushing as hard as they could to get a handball receive or spread for a switch. 2. Change the make up of the midfield and find players who will not let their men get between them and the goal. Speed and hard running are needed. As is more balance around stoppages. 3. The forwards have to be better organised and work harder with their pressure. It's why we went to 1 tall. I'd suggest we have to go back to 2 talls against the Tigers but there has to be that desperation to chase and tackle with force. As for improving our overall standard of play - we have to find some cohesion with our handballs. We can't just be flicking it around one hot potato to another. All over the ground we've been dreadful at getting the ball out to a free runner. Hopefully a bit of pace on the wings helps but it might not happen overnight.

The backline are very much under the pump but Wagner and Vince are probably doing as well as can be expected given the stage of their careers and talents.Hopefully the midfield can pick up their defensive work rate and Hibberd, Jetta, Lever and Hunt can find form. Second half v Geelong, long periods v Brisbane and the majority of the North game our backline was rarely troubled. If we find the right match ups and the right pressure up the field they can look good but when it's bad it's awful. Petracca is in and out of games both mid and forward, but I wouldn't say he's not playing well (outside of Sunday). Salem is building pretty well in the midfield. Combined with Max, Jones and Oliver it's a start of a decent midfield but there's not the same talent on the outside. Tyson played ok but the wing doesn't seem right for him. Harmes and Gus aren't really suited on the wing. It's a mess. Hogan is in form as a forward. Kent seems to be back in much better form than he showed last year. Melksham was never reliable at Essendon and is a big disappointment right now. Fritsch is new. Bugg and Garlett would combine for a great footballer but otherwise they are what they are. Bugg is full of effort but no skills or smarts, Garlett has the talent but is afraid of contact. We might just struggle all year finding a reliable 2nd key defender, hard running wings and trustworthy small forwards.

His skill level was never great last year but he had his hits with his misses and that made him a good player overall. Needs to pick it up this year but I think this thread is fair to say good on him for running his backside off. The Hawks aren't just masters of pressure, skills and team work, they run hard through the midfield as well. If the rest of the midfield could run 17km in a game including some hard and smart defensive running our backline surely wouldn't be under so much strain.

Sure but he has to play somewhere and contribute otherwise it may as well be back to Casey.

First quarter was great but after his legs got heavy and his kicking went off. I don't know what to make of him. He's not overly quick and I know the team was getting steam rolled but in wet weather as the game goes on the pace should go out of the game and he should come in to it more. He knows where to go to get the ball and he can do things to win the ball and make decent decisions, but apart from that he looks a long way off. This is pure speculation but maybe the concussions have impacted his ability to maintain focus and energy for 4 quarters. I'm struggling to see where he fits in the team and really the only spots that look likely to me are the high half back role that Vince is in where he comes up to the back of a stoppage and can play up the ground and zone from a man. Or as a tagger against the right type of opponent.

Should beat any rucks aside from Nic Nat at centre bounces and we should take more advantage of that. But boundary throw ins aren't as much a case of tallest man wins. A shorter guy who has a lower centre of gravity can manipulate where his opponent can hit the ball relatively easily. McEvoy forced Gawn to hit it defensive side yesterday and the Hawks mids swarmed on us and forced turnovers. Yesterday really was a game where we would've been better with Pedda (or Tommy Mc) in the ruck to change the dynamic around the throw ins. And we don't use his marking around the ground well enough. Plus the game moves so much faster now that he can't get a kick behind the play and take defensive marks. Gawn will monster bad rucks. He'll be very good around the ground if used well. And if we defend well he's a weapon when he can get back inside 50 for the high ball. But against good rucks and good teams it becomes very hard for him to be an advantage.

This wasn't a Watts post. It was a Lewis post. Watch him desperately throw a foot at the ball afraid to bend down because the sheer might of Jacky boy was coming the other way. Lewis was done as a player then. Clarko knew.

The old team rule is no kicking off the ground in the backline though. I think kicking off the ground is valuable when it keeps the momentum going with the play, and if you can smash it forward from half back to the wing that's fine too. But after Lever had an air ball Bernie attempting a little dinky kick 5 metres out from goal when and that kind of thing is inexcusable. All in all he's actually played pretty well this year old Bern but as a senior player he has to do the fundamentals.

Yep. Hawthorn were much better than us especially in the forward line of just dropping it on first contact and either drawing a free of scrapping on the next contest. We were penalised for attempting to handball. Holding the man should only be paid for players who don't ever have the ball. If you've possessed it and haven't kicked or handballed then you're fair game I think. Pay a sling tackle if it's a dangerous tackle that results. How many times was Tom Mitchell tackling Jones or Oliver before they even got the ball yesterday. Astounding.

5;40 of this video. Must start behind the mark until play on is called. http://www.afl.com.au/video/2016-09-12/is-blocking-the-mark-allowed

Smart changes. We need a tall to play on Rance. Smith was doing it well last year before Rance put him in hospital with a well disguised knee to the ribs. I'd be keen to give him another shot at it.

There is something wrong with Lewis. He's old as heck and more interesting in a media career than playing football. Clarkson knew that 2 years ago. When the going gets tough against a high pressure aggressive team he doesn't have it any more. I knew it as well. I knew it at exactly this moment.

FB: Jetta Oscar Harmes HB: Salem Lever Hibberd C: Stretch Oliver Baker HF: Spargo Hogan Kent FF: Petracca T. Smith Garlett Foll: Gawn Tyson Jones Int: Fritsch - forward/wing Brayshaw - mid Hunt - back ANB - forward/mid Out: Bugg, Melksham, Wagner, Vince, Lewis, Frost In: Spargo, T. Smith, Baker, Tyson, Stretch, Hunt This is my massive overreaction team but if they want to play a side actually capable of running and taking the game on and matching up against the Tigers pace and forward pressure then this would be it. It's probably unlikely Spargo or Baker are ready, and Hunt isn't really back either. Stretch has limitations as does Tyson (and Brayshaw). As does Smith. And Harmes will make mistakes down back but at least he'll do it whilst hitting the contest and taking the game on. The current team is picked to excel against a theoretically bad and pressure-less opponent. If we're designing a fanciful football team then give me one that has class at half back, pace and spread on the outside and competitive forwards.

I believe the interpretation is you have to be 1 metre behind the player on the mark until the umpire calls play on. They have to come from behind the mark, they can't be adjacent to it. It was poorly officiated yesterday (shock horror), but it does allow another player to either be free or up as the second marker so to speak and be involved. In the dry it doesn't really achieve much. In the wet it buys extra territory so it's well worth doing. Of course our players are poorly trained both at doing it and at how to defend it. It's basically a basketball screen and you can either fight over or under it or hand off to a second player to chase the kicker whist you pick up the blocker. The Hawks do the little things so well. At one stage Bugg gave away an off ball free for holding or blocking, not sure which, I didn't see a replay of what he had done. But it made me laugh because any time a high ball was coming in to the Hawthorn forward line they were blocking for each other non stop.

Years of just packing the backline under Roos probably didn't really develop the defenders to work one on one. The whole problem with the handover was Goodwin took over and started a brand new game plan. Our backs were actually somewhat accountable today but shellshocked when the ball hit the ground. The midfield pressure that we improved on under Roos was badly missing and there's too many defenders who don't win the ball back conclusively and turn it in to solid possession. Roos did a good job with a terrible foundation but didn't get close to fixing all the cracks and now Goody is doing something else trying whatever it is he's trying and there's still lots of shaky ground. Roos loves talking about defending and attacking like they are individual parts of the game but the relationship between the two has never been more symbiotic. So I'm not really that keen on hearing him talk about defending. I'd rather here Roos talk about why the players mindsets are off, why the club felt the need to make splashy acquisitions like Lewis and Lever - neither of whom seem resilient - and why there's probably still a doubt on our footy department. I know I have my doubts on our list management, our fitness staff and the medical staff.

Out: Melksham, Bugg, Frost In: Pedersen, Stretch, Hunt They are the obvious ones. Whether to go with Tyson, Hannan maybe even Spargo or Baker and really shake the team up is worth considering.

We play a slow chipping ball tempo game plan and an aggressive (mindless) backline. If we don't win the ball and get it going forward we'll be exposed at the back. Mindset is one thing, they dropped away in the second half. But I can hardly blame some of the players too much when nothing they were trying to do was going to work in the wet. Really good players can withstand hot opposition pressure but apart from that it's team mates. Clarry today would win a super tough hard ball get and just have no one to give it to. Facing away from goal he can't put it on the boot and we're at the mercy of the Hawks. This is this team under pressure and the changes can't be as simple as playing harder or better.