Je Roos Salem

Curl up in a corner, weep and seriously self reflect.

It is pretty silly, but I'm giving it my best shot. That sort of attitude doesn't really work both ways though, because players who've had very good first years (eg. Scully, Trengove even Morton) are generally perceived to be stars of the future that will only improve. Just based on what i've seen so far, Toumpas I haven't had a great feeling about, whereas Viney I have mostly admired and he's fit in well. Some of it with Toumpas seems to be structural, as I don't think our game plan has helped his development and he doesn't really seem to have a position. As much as I detest to re-watching one of our worst games and worst spectacles of all time (in which was I soaked through the skin at the ground) i'm having a look at it now. A breakthrough game, such as Viney's in Round 1 (should've gotten Rising star nomination) , clearly hasn't come though

To not see Magner in the team, yet again, surely it has to be something disciplinary-related that's keeping him out. We clearly lack midfielders (especially hard ones), after surprisingly not playing for the first 7 rounds, he came in and played two games, both in which he was in our better handful of players. Only to not be sighted again, and only once as an emergency? It's been odd to say the least, especially since he played 17 games last year and dominated preseason games against Port Adelaide and St.Kilda and looked set for a year in the guts. Or have we surrendered him to be an important part of Casey's premiership plans? Is he a bad influence on younger players? Also, putting McKenzie in would've been the next best thing to aid our midfield. Does he have much of a future at the club if he can't get a game? Can't see Spencer-Gawn-Fitzpatrick working, but I'm glad Spencer's in and I'd love to see what he can do. Gawn and Fitzpatrick have both showed enough form to retain their spots. We'll miss Dawes' toughness at half forward and his good marking ability and forward thinking, even if he has been beaten a bit too easily. I think Watts will need to kick 5 for us to win. Bit sad Blease won't be out there, not denying he was very disappointing last week, but I think he could get a hold of GWS. Considering we've lost our toughest forward and back, there will need to be a huge step up output from Trengove and Grimes, and I'm talking 25 touches and 2 goals from Trengove, 30 disposals and 10 marks off half back for Grimes. They have to step up and get out of autopilot, or their status should seriously be questioned for next year

He is, but please, I follow the team as close as anyone and it's clear people are overrating him based on what he's done so far. Think of all our recent draft failures, surely it's a bit ambitious to suggest a 200-game future for the club? I don't think he's really cemented a spot in our best 22 but where we're at I'm probably happy to see what he has to offer for the rest of the season. His first few games were certainly a poor start to his career, effort wise, plus he melted under pressure, whereas Viney immediately asserted himself. He's improved a bit and has shown signs of class and hardness since but by no means have I seen signs of stardom and I think to call him an "elite" user of the ball is a bit much

I didn't say there weren't contributing factors, just merely correcting the previous post by using examples of consistent first year players

The Harvey incident did show passion, true. I'm just over this waiting game as a Melbourne supporter, of course he may become a fantastic player in two years or whatever, whoever may be his teammates then, but I'm just going to judge him on what I've seen him, an AFL footballer, do so far rather than make excuses as to why he hasn't done what he can apparently do. I understand some people feel a connection with him and think he represents the future and he'll be a 200 game player etc. That's great- we've heard it all before! Us, as Melbourne supporters should now know that it's difficult to forecast the future. I'd rather analyse things as they happen and gather my own understanding rather than take a blind faith approach with every decision the club makes. Our team is a horrible unit for Toumpas to prosper in. But that doesn't mean I can't point out his shortcomings, as I and others do with other players who are responsible for beltings most weeks. As for first year players (midfielders) with consistency (or a considerable amount more), Tom Mitchell, Jaeger O'Meara, Brad Crouch and Wines are all good examples

I understand our lack of movement up field, he just didn't show enough dare or passion to impress me (looking backwards instinctively, indecision). I won't be quick to praise Toumpas on the basis that he's quite a good kick and can run around quite well; based on what I've seen this year he's been mostly disappointing and has shown huge flaws like awareness, a contested game and decision making (such as having a chance to kick a goal in the pocket but second guessing himself and panicking). He's shown a couple of glimpses, mainly V Sydney and Geelong but not enough. Hopefully he's a confidence player and that once the Neeld storm settles he finds more desire, flair and consistency. Just doesn't impress me very much and looks like another under performing first round pick

I was at the game, and noticed Toumpas' intentions were rarely to move the ball forward with a decent kick. Not entirely his fault, since others do it too and since the team's been taught that's a good tactic this year, but it seemed like a tactic to just get him the ball and give him experience as opposed to a team enhancing one, which would've been to put Grimes back who has actually played defence well in the past and couldn't find the ball whilst following it all day

Maybe it says that keeping Lindsay Thomas quiet didn't excuse the fact that he was responsible for turning it over to all the other North Melbourne players

The prospect of building a side around two young key forwards does sound exciting, like what Hawthorn did.

Pretty good idea. Neville Jetta doesn't look like he's returning to the forward pocket, doesn't seem like we're too interested in playing Blease there, we're gonna have 3 capable talls next year so i'd love to have a decent small there. He's 25, played 82 games and kicked 100 goals. Parting ways with Rodan and Byrnes would be ideal if we were to get Nahas though.

The fact that Toumpas can only find about 5 possessions in the midfield, and has been used as an unreliable spare defender just so he can find the ball doesn't really give me too much hope

The recruitment of Byrnes and Rodan just hasn't worked. I was excited by the thought of them both being in the team but we haven't gotten anything close to what they had been capable of at previous clubs. Plus, Neeld outlined that they were there for leadership and for cultural reasons too, which I just think is wrong. Neither has shown much passion and neither has been a regular in the team. Pedersen was also unnecessary. We still don't have enough talent aged 21 or under.

I'd just like to see more moves. It seems like moving Watts as a loose man in defence is the only action we take during games. We've sort of settled into a plan that doesn't work. Grimes in defense is a must, and let him take the kick ins. Try Blease in defence too, but I think his ability should allow him to bounce back from one shocking game. Dunn should be tried forward again, or go out of the team. Nicholson should also be in the team, in fact I thought he was pretty much our best against Geelong before being dropped. Our midfield structure needs a heap of work and is our biggest worry. Defensive structure of Frawley, Garland and McDonald seems quite sturdy, but other backs are an issue. I'm pretty confident in Gawn as no.1 ruckman, although in a way it's a shame Spencer got suspended in easily his best game ever so we can't see more of him. With Clark, Dawes, Hogan and Watts all fit Fitzpatrick probably won't and shouldn't get a look in but with Clark's injury proneness who knows. Dawes is quite a strong mark and good kick but quite a limited player. We have a lot of problems Re: small/medium forwards too

Provided we have 10 MCG home games, the other can be played in Darwin, Docklands, Canberra or Afghanistan. Darwin and Etihad (In consecutive weeks, mind you) is too much. As is the fact that we played 12 of our first 14 games at the G and 1 of our last 8.

It did, Round 7 2008. The comeback match against Freo had the top level closed. The only good thing about Etihad today was that it meant all the Dees supporters were packed at one end so it created a comforting (I use the term loosely) atmosphere. And I prefer it with the roof open to be honest

I was in utter shock today as it has become clear that we are now deluded to the point where we keep making the same mistakes and are just carefree in making changes to our game plan. Some of our players almost have an attitude of "Oh it's not my fault I'm kicking the ball this way, because the coach told me to do so and I don't care it resulted in a turnover". We continually go wide and continually leak goals. We might have one good long kick out of defence but that never turns into anything. It just doesn't work. Individual brilliance is a thing of the past, barely anything inspiring happens from our players. There's too many players trying to "play their role" and definitely not succeeding. Frawley was an exception today as he was smart in defence. Gawn did a lot and tried hard. McDonald was ok. I don't like the way the players instinctively look backwards and sideways when they get the ball, and it's even more tragic to see Toumpas doing that in defence at such a young age. Nathan Jones is always one of our best, but he has sort of stayed at one level this year and has quite reached the heights of last year and fluctuates in form and effort during games and can't seem to dominate like he used to. Davey's disposal was horrid. Watts started poorly and never stayed poor, the fact he went back so early showed how defeated we were. Dawes and Fitzpatrick don't demand the ball enough or not enough players want to kick it to them. Howe is sometimes a bit of a lost cause and seems to not hold a position. Viney had a disappointing game. Blease had 4 possessions and one Blease moment in the game, or two if you count the last one where he dashed backwards and turned it over. And finally, Grimes needs to get out of the midfield and become that defender he was earlier in his career. He seemed to be on the ball all day yet had 9 disposals and not one memorable moment. I don't think he's ever had a great game as a midfielder, to be honest. I think we could far benefit with him taking marks inside defensive 50 as opposed to Toumpas, Dunn or Clisby.

Out- Trengove, Toumpas, Kent, Dunn, Byrnes, Pedersen, Tapscott In- McKenzie, Magner, Jetta, Nicholson, Garland, Terlich, Taggert. Trengove's time is up, no matter what he does behind closed doors or what honours he has. I'm not wanting Toumpas in the team until he becomes something more than a skinny kid who has been brainwashed into playing footy a certain way. I'd rather not see Byrnes or Pedersen in Melbourne colours. I'm sick of Dunn. Plenty of the ins I mentioned have played decent footy. And unearthing Taggert will at least keep people interested and it's about time another guy debuted

True, based on the hit outs and Goldstein's influence in the second half, you'd think so, but I thought Gawn showed heart all day, got into the right positions to win the ball and flew well at contests

6. Gawn (by a mile, only player who tried consistently and had a positive impact all game, had our most contested possessions too) 5. Frawley (did well on Petrie for 3 quarters) 4. N.Jones (Promising first half but still could've had a much better impact) 3. McDonald (A lot of the ball and surprisingly didn't cough it up as well as playing well on his man) 2. M.Jones (Tried) 1. Sylvia (Was pretty good at stoppages but looked defeated in the final term) Dunn and Toumpas are not voteworthy. Screwed up our defence all day with their decision making and didn't learn from their mistakes

6- Davey 5- Frawley 4- Viney 3- Fitzpatrick 2- Watts 1- Sylvia

Trengove's only good assets are his ability to get to the ball in stoppage scenarios and tackle, besides that he is basically a liability. He was disappointing and careless (despite all the tackles) and could learn a lot from Viney's attack on the ball. Meanwhile, Davey was quite inspiring, as was Blease tonight. Viney's attack was stunning. Howe was also good, and Fitzpatrick's pressure inside 50 was great after his injugry/quiet spell. Interesting to see Watts in the ruck, but I think it was long overdue to see that tested. 21 possessions and 10 marks was a great result. I'm a bit unsure about Clisby, Terlich and Dunn all in defence. Just think we could benefit from making a change there.

I thought he was a bit overrated last year, but he was sensational on Riewoldt and he has great potential but his lack of skill by foot is a worry and has been especially problematic with the Neeld game plan. I'd probably rather see him go the whole game without a kick

I saw him too, he was hiding behind a tree on his phone. Glad to see he talked to people before I arrived there

14 home games?