Fat Tony

Clarkson plays more forwards and Hawthorn gets a lot of goals over the back. It works because they are all quick.

Not directly. Only Garland is a Free agent.

I think it is right that we want to be innovative, but we also need to be aware that most ideas that are considered to be innovative in the AFL are really just further advances on previous ideas. The three key innovations over the last 60 years have been the use of handball as an attacking weapon and play on from defence (invented by Len Smith and used by Barrissi), flooding (Rodney Eade) and formation defence (Alistair Clarkson). Innovations like Pagan’s Paddock and Wallace’s deep flood were just an evolution of Eade’s original idea. And the modern day press is a progression from Clarkson’s Cluster. Innovation also needs to reflect the players at the coach’s disposal. You wouldn’t attempt to play a tall forward line if you had four Chris Dawes on your list. Likewise, you wouldn’t play without a ruckman if you had Todd Goldstien. Moreover, it needs to be remembered that there are only two real ways to move the ball – kick and run and handball. And there is only two paths to goal – boundary and corridor. So the number of different game plans is relatively limited.

I couldn't disagree more on this. Nic Nat's chasing, tackling and smothering is first rate. As is his follow up work around clearances. He just struggles to find the ball in general play. But, IMO, he is still a star because there are nearly 80 clearances per game. I also don't think West Coast's midfield is that strong and, indeed, he is the one making them look good.

Our game plan is currently very similar to the Swans and Freo, which looks to have been worked out by Clarkson. A key point of the thread is that Roos needs to re-evaluate whether what he is trying to deliver has already been superseded. Personally I think it has and we need to inject some outside run and class into the list.

I am all for innovation, but it is also a risk to be too far apart of the pack like Mark Neeld, Gerard Neesham and Neil Balme. Particularly when your list is not in contention and there is the potential for rule changes.

Max Gawn would be a much better player if he could improve his goal kicking. It is a disgrace.

I think Nic Nat is a gun. While he doesn't take many marks, he influences games significantly with his dominant centre bounce ruck work and pressure acts. The fact that Max Gawn is being spoken of on the same page as Nic Nat says more about big Max. He has been sensational in the last five games except when he was beaten by Nic Nat.

While Brisbane would be incredibly hypocritical to ask for a priority pick, I have some sympathy with the Lions given they have lost so many players due to homesickness. Moreover, the gap in quality between the best sides and the worst sides in the AFL is still huge and I feel the fairest way to bridge the difference is via the draft and salary cap. (This gap needs to narrow IMO, because I am sick of watching so many uneven games of footy.) But the decision by the AFL that priority picks now be handed out by the commission arbitrarily leads to activism against the pick being given by the other 17 clubs. Brisbane, indeed, were a key complainant against Melbourne getting a priority pick in 2013 when Voss was in charge. Greg Swann also lobbied hard against Melbourne being overcompensated for Frawley leaving last year. It is therefore impossible for Melbourne supporters to feel Brisbane deserve a priority pick when we didn’t get one, especially given our performances were much, much worse and because Brisbane look to be playing well below their capability this year. Personally, I feel the AFL needs to consider revising the draft order so that all the sides outside the finals have two picks prior to the top 8. This would be essentially a priority pick for every team that misses the finals and would take away the annual debate which is bad for football.

Is Parish very quick? IMO a lot of good outside mids at U18 level are really struggling with the contested brand of AFL footy. (i.e. players like Toumpas and Aish). I feel outside players now need to be super quick like Lewis Jetta and the Hill brothers to be high quality AFL players.

Good news. Round17 Injury Report

Bailey was trying to be more like Geelong and Neeld like Malthouse (at Carlton).

I agree they hit targets, but I also think that it is partly due to Clarkson's willingness to play skilled, undersized players in key posts. (i.e. Gibson, Stratton and Gunston.)

I think picking up a player like Kelly would give us an extra win (and a little less whinge from you old dee). The thing is these players would all command a first round pick plus 6% of the salary cap.

Hawthorn have thrashed Melbourne, Fremantle and Sydney this year and it got me thinking if Clarkson has cracked the Roos game plan. Personally I also feel we should be now looking at the Hawthorn model as a blue print rather than the Swans. The key lessons I think we can learn from Hawthorn are: 1. Be more willing to move forward by hand. Statistics will show Melbourne, Fremantle and Sydney as outliers in the competition in terms of meters lost/gained from handball. Roos’ edict is to get the ball back by hand from a stoppage until you find a free kicker then hit a target and chip by foot going forward. This is very predictable and Hawthorn are very good at pushing forwards up to the stoppage and their midfield is ‘blitzing’ the ball carrier. 2. Hawthorn play three small forwards in Rioli, Breust and Puopolo, all of which are good in the air and excellent chasers. By contrast, Garlett is our only proven small forward. 3. Hawthorn’s key forwards are Roughead, Gunstan and Hale (second ruck), with Roughead and Gunstan both being very quick and mobile when the ball hits the ground. This makes me doubt if a forward line including players like Hogan and Dawes can ever really work together. It also makes me think that we should persevere with the Tom McDonald experiment up forward for the rest of 2015. 4. Hawthorn’s premiership midfield included just six inside mids in Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Burgoyne, Shiels and Langford, with Smith and Hill on the outside. Given Melbourne’s excellent offseason recruiting, I feel our list is now well stocked for inside mids with N Jones, Vince, Viney, Tyson, Brayshaw, Vandenberg and Petracca. (This doesn’t even account for the potential for Neal-Bullen and Trengove to have in impact.) While Watts is starting to show some consistency as a wingman, we really need to acquire/develop some fast, classy outside players. Hopefully Toumpas and Stretch can be these players, but I don’t feel we can rely on them making it. (Salem might also help in this area, but I don’t know if he is quick enough.) Our need to get some outside class and pace is exacerbated due to only having one bona fide AFL small forward in Garlett. (Although I also hope that Kent can develop into a quality player.) 5. The key to Hawthorn’s undersized backline is teamwork. Hawthorn rely heavily on Lake to play the Gorilla role, but are otherwise small, pacey and skilled. While Howe may be out the door, I think we should try and retain him and play him as a third tall defender like he did on the weekend (rather than a fourth as he usually does). In this role he is in a better position to go as the third man up and it should means we have a better kicking back line. For this reason, I feel we should not be afraid of losing Tom McDonald from the back six.

I didn't see too much A+ in Aish yesterday. Outside mids without electric pace are really struggling in modern footy. Gaff and Ellis would be two of only a handful of exceptions. (Maybe also Hannebery, but he also wins a lot of his own ball.)

There is a lot of talk about how Geelong will manage its list given the number of aging stars it has. Should we consider offering one of them a lifeline ala Daniel Cross and Paul Chapman? I think Steve Johnson looks finished and I cannot see Enright, Bartel or Lonergan (contracted) going anywhere. But James Kelly looks to be still going well and would fit in well to our midfield nicely. Matty Stokes has been up and down this year, but has still played half a dozen good games. Jared Rivers was in excellent form early in the year. And Andrew Mackie is still good enough to go again. Enright, Corey (33yr 10mth) Johnson, Steve (32yr) Bartel, Jimmy (31yr 7mth) Kelly, James (31yr 6mth) Lonergan, Tom (31yr 2mth) Mackie, Andrew (30yr 11mth) McIntosh, Hamish (30yr 10mth) Rivers, Jared (30yr 9mth) Stokes, Mathew (30yr 7mth)

Grimes in for Neal-Bullen and Hunt for JKH.

Prestia is a bit of a dilemma as I think our biggest needs are classy outside mids and a key forward/second ruck. I like Prestia as a footballer and think he could add some explosiveness to our midfield. But, on the flip side, our current midfield lacks height and outside run/skill. I am a bit worried that an inside midfield including N Jones, Prestia and Viney would not be able to cope with the oppositions' big bodied mids. For this reason Prestia isn't the ideal target IMO. But I would still rather trade our pick than chance the draft lottery and Prestia is well worth our first rounder as it stands.

Posters wanting Howe to be traded don't understand the present AFL landscape. He is out of contract and will nominate a club and get there. We will then get unders in terms of any trade or he will manipulate the draft to get to his destination. Howe leaving is unlikely to be a win for us.

I also think Watts does this really well, but it can't be just one player given there are nearly 75 stoppages per game.

Hopefully 6.

A side benefit of trialling McDonald forward is that it gives us the chance to see if Fitzy can make it as an AFL defender. Personally, I don't think that McDonald and Fitzy can both play in the same back line as it means we lack sufficient skill down there. We should also trial McDonald as the second ruck and use him as third man up at stoppages like Blicavs for the Cats.

There is way too much doom and gloom on here today. We lost due to our poor goal kicking and good goal kicking by Essendon. The wet conditions also played a part in keeping Essendon in the game. We are getting better and our midfield is starting to take shape. Gawn has come on significantly in the last month and the ruck has gone from a big weakness to a possible long-term strength. Brayshaw and Vandenberg look like they will be at least 150 gamers. Watts has had his best month of footy and is finally showing some intensity. I also think we have been badly impacted by injuries this year, particularly in players who looked like they might show a great deal of improvement, with Petracca, Frost, Salem, Viney and Kent missing a lot of games.

B Garland, Fitzpatrick, Jetta HB Lumumba, Dunn, Grimes C Cross, Vince, Watts HF Brayshaw, Hogan, Howe F Vandenberg, T McDonald, Garlett Fol Gawn, Viney, N Jones Int Tyson, Kennedy-Harris, M Jones, Stretch (sub) In: Fitzpatrick, Grimes, M Jones Out: Dawes, Neal-Bullen, Harmes • I think our forward line is too slow when the ball hits the deck with both Dawes and Hogan. • Fitzpatrick needs to be given a bigger run at playing as a key defender and it is worth trialling McDonald forward again. Fitzpatrick should also be well suited to play on Martin or Leuenberger. • Grimes provides a bit more run out of defence than Cross, who should tag Beams. • I think we missed the run and carry of M Jones. I think he provides more to the side at the moment than Neal-Bullen and Harmes.