old55

Comparing May and Oscar is not valid. Oscar is 22, the valid comparison is May at 22 in 2014 with Oscar now. Oscar is on a steep improvement curve year on year and will become a very strong all round defender.

I'm feeling content - no lose situation. Trade with Fremantle will happen at a reasonable price and we'll on trade for May. Trade doesn't happen and an exciting experiment with Jesse at CHB in 2019. The dogs may bark but the caravan rolls along.

Related to Jamie Duursma?

Yes total outlier situation when we were bleeding goals. Akin to the last 2 minutes of quarters. It's pulling the emergency cord. The context of the question was using Hogan as starting CHB next year. Are you seriously suggesting that we'll ever start TMac as key back in the future? It's over - he's a key forward. .

Stupidity confirmation. The only time TMac might be in the back 50 is in the last 2 minutes of quarters when we're trying to stop opposition scoring.

I'd like to point out that May is no choir boy either - there's risk in recruiting him. He's not the guaranteed universal panacea. I'm fine with the trade going ahead. But I'm at least equally fine with trying Jesse at CHB next year. It worked for Hurley who had a similar chequered start at a key forward.

It's because Jesse Hogan is our star player and we are much more personally invested in him than Freo fans are. He's reality to us and theory to them.

Yeah OK I get that. Now how does it apply specifically to this thread?

I'm struggling to see the analogy - perhaps you can tease it out for me? Who is God for a start off?

I think that's the missing point. Tries CHB, dominates, likes it. Look I'm happy to do the trade at market value but I'm equally happy to try to salvage the best outcome for the club it it can't happen because Bell's a f'wit.

GC would be rapt with this deal as would MFC if there was a sweetener involved. The only sticking point would be Hogan's willingness - a pretty major sticking point I imagine. Still GC could offer a Buddy style $11m over 9 years deal that may entice.

That's a consistent line of reasoning across the years. It's uncommon and there's a lot to be said for that. My only observation it's not totally objective. You understandably get very excited and salivate at outstanding KPF prospects and build a very high hope and expectation. When that's not met the crash is hard. The pendulum swings a long way the other direction. I'm pretty sure you strongly value objectivity - you've got a bias here. There wasn't much baby with the Watts bathwater, I think there still can be with Hogan. He could find his niche in the backline like Hurley has and dominate for years to come. I'm still sufficiently excited by this prospect.

You've changed your tune. Sure Hogan is open to a trade to Freo when they are offering him a long fat contract. But the fact is, as you at least used to acknowledge, MFC has been in favour of trading him too this time and has been actively courting the idea. It's not all or even mainly Hogan driving IMO. I have no issue with this position of MFC and would be fine if he's traded for reasonable return like 5 + 23 that gets us May and makes us better - and it still could happen. We're lucky to have a surplus of KPF talent, Hogan is the most tradable and saves long term salary cap that enables us to keep our other stars - the FD probably calculated that we can't keep them all. Now Freo have forked this up totally and any resurrection of the trade is totally in their court on our terms. In the absence of this we should actively turn it around to a positive with Hogan staying. That's where we should get around him and play him in the backline in 2019.

I'm a big fan of this idea. I think he is well suited to this role and it is less likely to bring out his sometimes dubious attitude episodes (although I acknowledge it hadn't stopped Rance similarly playing for frees in this role). This whole Hogan trade debacle may yet have a silver lining because it may be the circuit breaker that makes a somewhat left field idea like this possible to execute. Goodwin has shown a willingness to try this type of move e.g. Melkshan forward, TMac forward, but probably needed a catalyst to enable an idea like Hogan back to get traction. It makes sense from a number of angles. The need to improve KP defence as indicated by the interest in May. The over load of KPF as indicated by our willingness to contemplate trading Hogan and amplified by the recruitment of Preuss. I think the FD may have assumed no Hogan when pursuing this trade - not that that is the primary reason. Also final silver lining, surely Hogan is over his flirtation with Freo and may now be willing to commit to our cause if we strongly welcome him back across the board.

Umm Greg Denham announced it was on weeks ago.

Are you Peter Bell's estranged twin?

Tin foil hat material - you probably think the moon landings were faked.

It's very possible West Coast may be an option, that cannot be denied. They don't seem to have ever been in the frame before but Kennedy is aging now. But I don't think it's a fait accompli that Hogan won't be with us beyond next year as you stated earlier. Lokk it seems we've got some common ground now. I genuinely think Hogan could play key back very effectively. He has great ball reading capability and is a nice field kick. His aerobic capability would suit the up and back between press and zone. Whether he's be up for this role change is another question though i agree. And it may push him over the edge to leave at then end of next year. We've made a plan for him not to be in our forward line next year and we've telegraphed a plan that we need to bolster our backline. Occam's Razor says Hogan back.

I wouldn't. I'm strongly in favour of dealing fairly and not making ambit claims. Players respect that and it makes us an attractive destination who can get the job done. I think it's good that Mahoney has made it clear all along that to get May depended on the Hogan trade. We save face with May too. I'm not a a take it or leave trade hardman but Freo have behaved very unprofessionally and we should not co-operate with them and re-inforce this type of behaviour. Otherwise it will set a precedent we don't want. They have created their own disaster. There appears to be a reasonable price from us in the public domain and that's 5 & 23. Freo could come back cap in hand at that price and a deal could still be done if Jesse would still entertain going there.

Seems to me like the pull has always been from Freo, now that nexus is surely broken, maybe there's a new path.

yeah, nah

Where is he going? Surely the Freo bridge is burnt now. I get that this saga has pi55ed you off, but there's an opportunity to get around him and make him feel at home.

Preuss arriving, Weed developing, Hogan staying. Hogan to CHB as discussed. No need for May.

Nope looks like I was wrong @Lucifer's Hero - rule is as it always was ... From AFL Rules at http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/AFL-Rules-June-2017.PDF

Pretty sure - will search for confirmation article and post here.