old55

It's not really my argument, it's my observation of FD action and deduction about FD thinking.

I don't think we want all 3 in the back-line together - when Frost became available for selection earlier in the year Oscar went out. Then TMac went into the ruck/fwd and Oscar and Frost were together back. Now Pedo has hit form, TMac has gone back and Frost is out. I don't see a balanced set up with all 3 in. Axis of Bob posted a comparison of developing tall backs earlier in the year which showed that Oscar is well advanced - many posters can only see what's right in front of their nose and have little ability to project potential development. I agree that TMac, OMac, Frost is a reasonable set-up and that's why I don't see KPB as a priority, but clearly the FD do and if so then with limited list size and resources we don't want to be over-invested in this area and so Frost is tradeable. It will be fascinating to see how the back-line structures if we get Lever - with TMac, OMac, Lever and Hibberd all fit back there?

I don't think KPB is a our biggest need but evidence points to the FD think it is and are very keen on Lever. If that's true then there's many people in this thread struggling to stitch the logic together. If the FD think that we need a KPB that means they think the current set aren't quite good enough. Therefore some are tradeable. Oscar is in the team, Frost is out. Frost is tradeable. I like Frost - his size and speed is rare and they are great attributes for zone defence, but the logic is there.

Varcoe and Fasolo too.

The Sandy v Casey game I went to was a shocking rolling maul contest - you could literally count the skill executions on two hands across the whole day. Yes it was very wind affected so this was some excuse. MFC play "outnumber at the contest and win it" and there's no doubt Casey are playing the same style (which is good), but when you factor in less skill and less fitness at VFL level it's a recipe for ugly games.

There's clearly still a big step up from VFL to AFL. Many players have struggled to bridge the gap this year despite great form in the VFL - Trengove, Stretch, JKH, White, Wagner Others who have managed the leap: Brayshaw, Hannan, ANB

Plapp's VFL report: Jack Watts: Jack had 20 possessions, including nine contested possessions, 11 marks, three clearances and kicked one goal. I thought he played a significant role on the weekend, particularly in the middle part of the game, where we needed to change some things up in the middle of the ground. He was able to play as a midfielder and give us some composure, plus some fierce ball movement, which opened up and gave us some scoring opportunities. That was a significant move in the day, which added real value in that part of the game. I was happy with his team-first attitude and engagement of VFL footy. He had a big influence on the game for us.

Plapp's player review - always an informative read: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-08-22/vfl-player-review-round-18 Players of note for elevation: Jack Watts: Jack had 20 possessions, including nine contested possessions, 11 marks, three clearances and kicked one goal. I thought he played a significant role on the weekend, particularly in the middle part of the game, where we needed to change some things up in the middle of the ground. He was able to play as a midfielder and give us some composure, plus some fierce ball movement, which opened up and gave us some scoring opportunities. That was a significant move in the day, which added real value in that part of the game. I was happy with his team-first attitude and engagement of VFL footy. He had a big influence on the game for us. Corey Maynard: He had 20 disposals, five clearances, 13 tackles and kicked a goal. After being the carryover player for the AFL team last week, Corey left off where he’d been in the past month to six weeks. His form at VFL level has been outstanding. On a day where it probably suited those players, where he is a contest player, he was quite significant, in and around the contest. Corey continues to take his game to another level, which is pleasing. While JKH: "serviceable", Bugg "Buggy’s really going to benefit out of that and we should see him get some big improvements over the coming weeks"

I'm a fan of Oscar but I'd take that bet. I'll be surprised if he finishes top 10 in the Bluey, but he will finish top 20 which is still a very good result for such a young player. Oliver (runaway winner), Hibberd, Jones, Viney (even though both have missed matches), TMac, Petracca, Lewis, Jetta, Garlett - should all be locks for top 10. That leaves a lot of competition for the 10th slot.

He did appear to spit the dummy against St.Kilda but he appeared to be trying hard against the Lions, perhaps too hard and in the wrong way, trying to get clearances himself rather than paving an avenue. Grundy can be effective at clearances himself so maybe Max could contribute most by concentrating on limiting Grundy's influence after the tap.

Max needs to lift. Despite the free kicks, Longer absolutely spanked him 2 weeks ago. Stef beat him last week too. Max was clearly trying hard and tried to get involved in the clearances and get his hands on it, but he's not agile enough to make an impact. He needs to block for the mids or tackle the opposition to hurt a la Mumford. My assessment is that we were probably playing better when he wasn't in the team.

Updated Collingwood injury list Taylor Adams Head/blurred vision TBC Ben Crocker Ankle 1 week Jordan De Goey Hip flexor Season Alex Fasolo Shoulder TBC Tyson Goldsack Soreness Test Levi Greenwood Knee Season Brodie Grundy Suspended Available Liam Mackie Ankle Test Mitch McCarthy Foot Season Adam Oxley Ankle Season Scott Pendlebury Broken finger Season Henry Schade Hamstring Season Ben Sinclair* Hamstring Season Travis Varcoe Elbow Season Daniel Wells Quad Test Rupert Wills Quad TBC Updated: Tuesday, August 22 Pendlebury, Varcoe, De Goey, Greenwood - some handy outs Grundy in. Adams, Fasolo, Goldsack, Wells, Wills - some handy maybes

Perhaps he could play the first 3 quarters for Collingwood and the last quarter for us?

Justin Plapp has Casey playing with great intensity - right up to the last second of that match - it's pretty good!

Dogs losing is helpful. Need GWS big win.

I'm with you there STMJ. The fact that he has a problem other than the PF operation is not a good sign as some are taking it. I'm concerned there's more to it. We'll just have to wait and see.

Which game do the Dogs lose? That's really the key - if the Dogs lose one we really only need to win one. We'll know that before the Collingwood game because it's Hawks v Dogs next Friday night.

I don't know if you're joking

I place a lot of value in the AFLCA votes. Looking at the disappointing losses we've had this season, these are the 3 highest coaches' vote getters in each: R4 loss to Fremantle 10 Neale 7 Mundy 4 Fyfe R7 loss to Hawthorn 10 Viney 6 Roughead 4 Burgoyne R9 loss to North 10 Brown 8 Cunnington 4 Thompson R15 loss to Swans 10 Parker 8 Franklin 4 Z.Jones R17 loss to Adelaide 9 Walker 8 Lynch 6 Laird R19 loss to North 8 Brown 8 Oliver 5 Swallow 5 Ziebell I think, not surprisingly, that it's experienced stars that have played well against us in those games, and I guess Ben Brown is moving into that category. It's vital that we limit the influence of S.Martin, D.Beams, Rockliff and Zorko. Also be aware of Taylor and Lester. Here's the key votes in the Lions last 3 wins: R12 d Fremantle 10 Zorko 8 D.Beams 6 Taylor 4 S.Martin R18 d Carlton 9 Zorko 7 D.Beams 6 Rockliff 4 Lester R21 d GCS 10 D.Beams 7 Rockliff 7 Taylor 2 Lester 2. S.Martin

This is definitely a danger game for us. Bob Murphy was asked on SEN which teams out of finals contention has he been impressed with recently and he said Brisbane. Game is won in the midfield and any team starting S.Martin, D.Beams, Rockliff and Zorko has to be taken very seriously. The bookmaker odds on this game are way out of whack.

ANB and Frost have trade currency

It's a big leap to see how punching an opponent behind play and getting suspended for three weeks in which we lost winnable games is a positive - we'd be locked in the 8 and talking about top 4. The points that VP and TGR have made about Lewis' lack of pace, lack of commitment to the contest, turnovers and propensity to fall over are all valid. I'm not sure how this is hard to understand. But recently he has stood up strongly when the heat is really on and walked his talk. It's quite likely he has a limited number of shots in the chamber and has to use them wisely. How he delivers over the next few weeks will be key.

Last weekend and the next batch of games is why Lewis was recruited and how I'll judge him - the rest is garnish.

I somersaulted off my head and landed in the opposite gutter - it was some sort of miracle that I didn't fracture anything. I was also very lucky on the timing too - a millisecond earlier and the car would have T-boned me, a millisecond later and I wouldn't have flown over the bonnet, I would have hit the passenger window at full force. I was recently in the US and saw most cyclists riding without helmets and many "easy-riders" on motorbikes without helmets - incredible! I also see many people riding here with their helmet unbuckled! Not football stuff I know - but there's some intermittent push for helmets to be optional here - hopefully our experiences convince people that not wearing one is a stupid idea.

I'll edit it to: Port d Dogs GWS d WC big MFC d Lions We're in.