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Adding to my previous post, and touching on Hannabal's post slightly: I still believe, even after the debacle of Monday, that we can win 12 games next year. The players have improved their ability to perform the gameplan considerably over summer, and with continued improvement on that front, and non-stop skill work, I think we can return to the finals in 2010. There is no real point in coming out and saying this, other than give hope to those who have heard nothing but doom-and-gloom from many posters, friends, and family members.

Wow. I think some of you are disconnected from our immediate past and are overreacting to an awful display on Monday. 2008 was filled with Monday-esque performances and we are much, much better than we showed on Monday. The Dogs game was the soon-in-the-future norm and Monday was the slip-back-into-bad-habits shocker that always hits teams in our position. McLean will a good player. He has averaged 7 clearances over the last three weeks against great opposition. Bate is still improving, and everyone in the forward line will get better when the delivery comes in with more quantity and quality. The midfield needs to improve that. That improvement will come from the improved form of Morton, Davey, and Jones and the improved delivery of Moloney, McLean, Green, and Bruce (all of whom have delivered the ball better in the past than they have this year). The improvement will also come from the inclusion, over time, of potential long-term First 18 players in Buckley, Batram, Miller, Petterd, Garland, Meesen, McNamara, Wonaeamirri, Martin, Jetta, Spencer, Bennell, Valenti, Strauss, Blease, Jurrah, and McKenzie. The sky is not falling. It fell in 2008 and its still retreating upwards, althought it stalled momentarily on Monday afternoon.

You are on the money with everything except the part about Newton. He will be here next year and he will get his opportunity but Miller showed on the weekend with his dominant display after a slow start that he isn't as skillful as Newton, but he is a far better player. If Newton came in I would give the same reason for his underperformance that I give to Robertson, Bate, Petterd, Jetta, and Miller - the ball is not down there enough, nor is it delivered well enough. About 20 less Inside 50s than the Saints, 15 less than the Pies, etc. Newton is lucky he is not in the team at the moment, he wouldn't get near it as a deep forward (Sylvia has had to push up hard to get his many touches). If he was playing I dare say it would only serve those of us who think he isn't good enough.

Vulnerable players (A quiet last month): PJ, Macca, Bell, Morton, and Whelan. Inconsistent, but good of late: Bate, Jones, McLean, and Maric. Don't jump down my throat about Morton, he has had a quiet 3 weeks and may need a break or a run for Casey. OUT: To play for Casey in the bye - PJ and Bell. Against Essendon Chances to come in: Miller, Dunn, Jurrah, Newton, Petterd, Jetta, Bennell, Batram, and Martin. Wholesale changes are unlikely... My guess 10 days out... IN: Miller, Dunn, OUT: PJ, Bell,

But we have not been as bad as we were today. We are the worst team in the comp but we are half way through the season and we have had 1 of "these" games. Last year we had about 6 or 7. We are not what we showed out there today.

The only positive is that there have been few days like that this season. And this is why I keep telling some of you that we are the worst team in the league. Took a couple steps backward today, but we are ahead on the year.

That's what journalism used to be filled with - quotes, facts, etc. Not opinion and the following statement which will call the Mark Robinson Dysfunction "There are people who say..." Or the lazy sh!t that is done from time-to-time where the 'article' is a simple dictation from the tape of the interview - Robinson also does this. Off track slightly, I just think that there are many people trying to get a position like his and he remains in his position by the grace of an unholy god that cares nothing for standards or karma. Vent over.

We are last. No-one is being carried, there are no lifters - we have won one game. And if there are lifters, you can count them on one hand. It would be one hell of a clean-out to get rid of those 'who are being carried.' I want Miller to show Watts how to be a professional footy player. I also believe Miller can be a good HFF in a good team, which is what we all hope we may become soon.

That doesn't make sense. But Bailey is giving him a go to see whether his PS form meant significant improvement. Both Valenti and Bell will find it difficult to get a contract for 2010, but Bell would be behind Valenti at this stage. And BTW, Bailey royally screwed Valenti with his one game a few weeks ago. He's doing a good job IMO, but that was pointless. Give blokes a month to have a look at them in our state. Even Newton.

Just because Miller got dropped does not mean the Dees don't think he can 'cut it.' Petterd was dropped but I think he can be a great midfielder. I really think people see being dropped as the worst form of rejection in the AFL; 'a kick in the guts' it may be, but not the end of the world, or career...

I doubt Colin could write an article... It's what she got out of him that makes it a good article. If she didn't quote him it would be an op-ed and there are too many of those IMO. As for Colin, I'm glad he realises that it is a work in progress. Many here have already lauded his 'return' after kicking four goals against the Hawks. Miles to go before he sleeps...

You're right. He has good pace in a straight line, which is why he is good on a lead. But his lateral movement is limited and that is why he cannot play on a wing, or at least should not, before Morton, Davey, et al. Persist with HFF - even FF - while we are developing but forget about him being a midfielder.

I believe that some of you need to look at a nuanced view of particular players in regard to our flag tilt. Miller and Bate are NOT good enough to play CHF in a flag. That is a true statement, but they are certainly good enough to play roles in our forward line as we chase that flag. Each player has his weaknesses and positives: Miller - He isn't a footballer, but is a leader of men, and his work ethic is second to none (don't patronise the term, some show it more than others). And he is good enough to play at AFL level. If Watts learns from Miller to develop his body and give as much a Miller does off the ball he will become the kind of player what we all hope for. Bate - He is a tweener. Neither a KPP or a wingman (due to his glacial pace), but he is a footy player in the way he thinks and moves. He his a fantastic lead up player, but requires very good delivery to kick his three or four goals a game. Newton - He is a taller Robbo without the determination. He is slowly turning that around with a solid month of footy (tackling and chasing) but his body is what worries me. He is not cut at all, Bate is bigger than Newton in the arms and spent his first few years in the midfield. I cannot see him usurping others mentioned to be apart of our forward line in a few years time. Jurrah - He is a promising prospect and chasing and tackling looks second nature to him. I hope he embraces the summer gym work and if he does, he will give himself a chance of being an importnat part of our forward line. Robertson - This will be his ultimate, or penultimate, year at the MFC. He won't be around for a flag. Watts - He is in the same boat as Jurrah with regard to summer gym work. I really hope he looks to Miller and develops the same desire to get the most out of his body and himself.

Anyone who gets 8 clearances against the Hawks and then backs it up against the Saints with another 8 is a very good player. A captain needn't be the best player - only someone in a position to affect a game and his teammates. As an aside, many of us have gotten past the idea of 'McLean as Judd' meme that has permeated the minds of Dees supporters since his promising 2006 season. He, as you said, is valuable for his accumulation of possessions and his inside work. Both, of late, has been exceptional. He is not our dynamic inside/outside midfielder that can run the lines and go forward and kick a goal. And that's OK, we will find one somewhere else. I'm looking in the direction of Maric, Petterd, Bennell, Wonaeamirri, Buckley, Jones, or perhaps someone in the next draft?

Casey scorp would probably say that looking for games in Casey is a good way of expanding but, I am not sure about that. What I am sure of is that there are no families in the city. No kids means no future members, which means it is pointless to spend time with the Melbourne City Council.

I believe we have had a few threads on the subject of Casey in the past year... This is a god-send. Even if we never play a game out there, the benefits of getting involved in the area are something we would not have by embracing our traditional home at the G and the city. There are no kids in the city, no families, and that is where you maintain where we are at, and begin to grow to where we used to be - by winning over kids and families in a growing area of greater Melbourne. The facilities are a bonus, and casey scorp can reel off (as he has done a few times) the fantastic set-up that Casey have already got down at Casey Fields. The future of the MFC has some sort of security with this foothold in Casey.

I think Watts will spend more time outside the 50 than in, however: Watts Miller Bate Maric Robertson PJ

TBH, I got the stats straight from AFL.allthestats.com. We start and finish games well, but have trouble with the middle part.

Good write up but... Collingwood have to win this game, there is a top 4 spot up for grabs with Geel, St K, and the WB. Malthouse will have them going, I really want to see JW do something but we are so young and down on confidence. We will be thereabouts at HT and then our obligatory 3rd quarter 'seize' will come into effect and we will lose by 3 or 4 goals. I don't want it to happen, and I am really happy with the other three quarters this year, but the third kills us and it will again on Monday. Some quick stats - we get outscored (on average) by 14.7 points accumatively in the 1st (3.5), 2nd (9.6), and 4th (1.6) quarters, and we get outscored by 12.3 points in the 3rd alone.

I think he is refering to the "Average players that are destined for mediocrity." Players such as Jones, Meesen, Petterd, Buckley, and Batram (according to Sylvinator, who, funnily enough has Sylvia in the B category that could be A and see us become a top 4 team). IMO Buckley could be a very good (and quick) wingman, Petterd could be a fantastic inside-outside midfielder, Jones could be what he was in 2006, Meesen could be a good tap ruckman, and Batram could be the Ling or Baker of our tilt. Oh, and BTW, they would all be playing in positions more important than a HFF, where Sylvia would be relying on their good work to kick his three or four. I think placing players in categories is hard work but we have only one 'star performer' in Davey. We have a lot of improvers, we have a few who have stagnated, and we have a few that have question marks. Its pointless placing everyone in groups while we are such a poor, and young, team. For example, Maric would be a C+ at the moment but I THINK he might become an A+. So where do I put him? How do I justify him as an A?

Jamar was BOG against the Saints. He will play out the year.

Ummm, 45, I don't want you to take this the wrong way but... You wouldn't make a very good editor... It's not everyone's cup-oh-T, and you're drinking coffee there with that one... Just a guy's name! Where's the pun? Where's the pun, dammit?!

I'm trying to be Mr Cool... Wait, that's not cool - to try and be cool... I guess I'm still giddy like the rest of you freaks... And 45, maybe I am being crazy or maybe, just maybe, I'm pointing out the truth. Nah, I'm being crazy (giddy freak crazy), apologies. Not usually like this, but we don't usually have players like Watts...

Umm, very clever. Just one thing - what the hell is Colin doing in it? I know you mean well but... Some people are easily satisfied.

Stop it! They're awful, especially that rip-off of an Oasis classic. The giddyness around here is refreshing but quickly becoming annoying. I know, Jack Watts is playing but keep your cool. We should be non-plussed - "Yeah, Jack Watts is playing, and yeah, he will have a decade of Grimes, Maric, Bennell, and Morton kicking him the footy. What of it?" (BTW, he will be on a wing and 15 touches and a couple of assists is all I can ask.)