Ollie fan

I strongly suspect that his wife has something to do with this. New mothers often want to be with their family. It would particularly be the case with a footballer because they have to travel interstate, spend long hours at training and club commitments etc. I'm not blaming his wife at all, mind you. I'm saying, this is probably a very genuine reason for him leaving. And I, and the club, will really miss him. You can't teach that kind of determination and effort.

Of course it does - the timing of the baby. I doubt if that's what you meant but it's the only relevant timing.

A little beef of mine is that our players don't know how to play for free kicks. Ben Brown is a master of it - not cheating, not creating a free when it us not there, but of making sure that the umpire sees it when it is there. I wish more players would do that. Thus, if eg a player is blocked for a run at a mark, they just complain later instead of throwing their arms out and making sure the umpire sees it. Other teams do it and get the resultant free.

WCW, what is your take on this?

The Goodwin detractors operate on several assumptions which I believe to be wrong. The first is that seasons 2022 and 2023 were a complete fail. Sure, I was not happy that we went out in straight sets in both of them, but to be top four in each was a real achievement - compare Richmond in 2021, Geelong in 2023, and now Collingwood. And particularly in 2023, there were good reasons - the injuries to 2/3 or more of our forward line made it almost impossible to succeed, and all credit to everyone involved for how close we came. The second assumption is that because we have eg the best ruckman in the comp, we should win every hitout; because we have a great midfield we should win every clearance, etc.. It only has to be said for the fallacy to be obvious. Then there is the assumption that there are, eg, good ruckmen around who would be prepared to come to the club and spend the vast bulk of the year at Casey in order to replace Max if he goes down for a short or a long period. Such palyers are in very short supply. And we don't have 'lifestyle" to offer a la Geelong, and the come-home factor for Victorians is shared with many other clubs. Finally, there is a lot of criticism of Goody for not changing to a game plan of speed and skill. In short, our list was built for defence and contest. In 2011-2012, Neeld was given a list built for pace and skill and tried to turn it into a hard defensive team - with predictably disastrous results. To do this in reverse would be equally disastrous. Goody has tried to change the game plan up a bit this year, with mixed results, but why should we? Our game is contest and defence and it is still effective despite the injuries that we now have- getting so close to Brisbane, GWS and Port Adelaide, all genuine contenders, shows that. Some people say it is dull and boring. That is a matter of taste - personally, I love a hard, defensive game and absolutely hate a boring goalfest a la basketball. And what I absolutely love is to go along and see us being competitive, even when we are expected to lose by 10 goals as we were against Port. Yes, there have been a few very poor performances this year, but generally we have turned up to play and have shown some spirit. After decades of watching games with only the hope that I might see a glimmer for the future, this is now a real pleasure.

Me too

My point was this: he showed once again that he is a great contested mark; he is moving much more freely after the year that experience tells us is necessary to recover from his foot injury (as was the case with eg TMac and Jack), and anyone with an eye for potential can see that he is growing into the forward role and will be a great KPF.

Of our top six players: Brayshaw out for the whole season, Oliver a shell, Trac out for half a season, and now May out. It's not how many you lose, it's who they are.

And get so many people keep bagging goody despite his valiant efforts with a list which, this season, has been decimated.

Anyone who DOESN'T think Petty is a forward didn't watch the game last night

Get our players right, a strong pre-season, and all will be well. One thing this season has shown us is that there is no one team that will be impossible to beat. Last night showed me that Petty can play both ends and is a very underrated contested mark. With him, Turner, JVR (who I think will establish himself as a champion next year) and hopefully Jefferson we should finally have the structure of a forward line. We need to recruit a replacement for May and continue to develop a backup ruckman. I am full of confidence. Oh, and it world be nice if they learn from this year that after contest and defence in the backline, we need to move the ball FAST into our forward line.

I thought TMac was not good tonight, and was outmarked by Ratagulea multiple times. Chandler was terrific in his pressure and tackling - surely you saw that, Joeboy! Hore was much better in there second half as he got the pace of the game. And Oliver has many issues, with his hand and his fitness, but not lazy! So: Joeboy - got many wrong.

I think he must have been ill. There is obviously a bug going through the club - 3 last minute changes for illness tells us that. And one poster said he saw Clarry trying to throw up too. I suspect JVR had it too and was totally done by 3/4 time.

Effort fantastic. Kossie one on one will beat anyone. Great to be here on a beautiful night.

How about some positive? The effort is excellent, despite the appalling turnout; Rivers and JV7 are great, Max is AA again, surely.

And justified.

For once, Cranky, I agree with you. I don't understand how you can say this and consistently bag Goody - but for Brayshaw we would have won that flag, despite 3/4 of our forward line being injured. That is because of his overall good coaching (and yes, I do think he made a mistake by not activating Schache against Carlton, but we all make mistakes). PS against Carlton, I believe the worst mistake was Lever kicking the ball down the line to a contest with 25 seconds to go (or whatever it was) instead of kicking it to Rivers and wasting 10-15 seconds by waxing it between them.

The word "support" is the key. I have no doubt you barrack for the Dees.

Just look in the mirror.

You are not a supporter. I have never seen you do a supportive post.

Yes. Read any of Cranky Frankly's posts.

I thought there was a bit of flair and dare in eg our first quarter against GWS. In broader terms, I think we tend to rely on contest and defence for the first half or so and then, having weakened the opposition, we open up the game to our advantage. Of course, it hasn't worked that way this year, for many reasons including injuries, a depleted list, and an attempt to change the game plan.

I quite like listening to Kane Cornes, but whatever he says is usually headline – grabbing rubbish. This article is such recycled nonsense, nothing that hasn't been discussed ad nauseam on this website. He doesn't even mention, in terms of our "ageing list" the number of young players that we have blooded recently. He clearly wants us to get rid of Clayton Oliver – I wonder if he wants Port to pick him up?

Who is delusional? We are not "sinking": this year is gone - but he knows he can't say that. And I don't blame him for the bad year either, as I have made clear on many threads. I think it is good that he is not rushing the development of a young key forward.

It will, because it is rubbish. Cranky has run this line in a dozen different threads and each time he gets asked to say what should have been done he leaves the thread and starts again in another. His whole premise is wrong and he is just a whinger.