furious d

I was coming until a mate I haven't seen for a few years rocked up at my door half an hour before I was gonna leave. Good to see him but disappointed I missed the bash :angry:

Col reminds me a lot of Ryan O'Keefe up forward. I think he has the potential to be as good or better in the next few years, hope like hell he can deliver.

Agree 100% DD. Most laughable suggestion I think I've ever heard. My big question over this riduculous west Sydney proposal is where do they play? If North and us can't make a profit at the G and the doggies can't at the dome what sort of hope in hell have WS got of making a profit at Homebush? A 100,000 seat stadium with a couple of hundred people in it CAN"T WORK! Wake up Vlad and put teams in Tassie and Darwin.

Just announced on SEN. 2 year deal as assistant coach to woosher at West Coke. They said Bailey was coming up soon too.

All our contested stats, along with many others, would be dragged down by our insipid performances for the first 6 weeks. From memory the team had something like 5 contested marks in the first 3 weeks, we were abysmal. I'd love to see a comparison of the last 8 weeks compared to the first 6. I think the improvement would be obvious

I don't accept the why but I understand your reasoning. The problem I have bub is your how. It guarantee's nothing and that's my point. What do the coaching staff do if despite their best efforts at the subtle art of tanking, the side keeps winning. You can't answer that. I don't think it will happen but it might. If it does you'll all be moaning about our failure at failing.

It's you lot that propose a gamble, I'm merely suggesting we play football and let the cards fall where they may. It's fine for you lot to sit back on yuor comfy chair and declare we MUST FINISH LAST! But the reality is HOW? For arguements sake lets say we get up over the bullies this week and despite a few changes pump Freo in Perth a week later. What would you suggest Bailey do? Hobble a few blokes. Jaded is spot on, we're already playing the kids and noone is playing injured Just who is the mythical premiership team you wannabe losers are trying to emulate, St Kilda 2003, Freo 2005?

Part of what I've liked about Bailey this year is players being picked on form, they've had to earn their spot. We are trying to build a new culture with a young list. The players aren't stupid, I just think it would be self defeating to abandon the principle of reward for effort in order to get a deal done a bit easier. I'm not 100% clear on the trade rules and PSD but surely if Warnock wants to go home, we're his preferred club and have the highest pick of the Vic clubs then we are in the box seat and should be able to get the deal done.

You still haven't answered my question bub, I think, I didn't get your riddle. How, exactly, does Bailey guarantee we finish last? Who get's dropped? Does he use the interchange to our detriment? Or does he tell the players to lose deliberately? I understand what you're saying I just happen to think it's wrong. You may be a smart ass but that doesn't make you smart

So what exactly do you suggest? If any steps were taken to reduce the desperation shown these past few weeks I'd have to reconsider if this is an organisation I want to be a member of. Bailey promised to reward form and I'd like to see him continue with that policy. Building the right culture is more important to me than getting RW a little cheaper than may be the case. If he wants to leave WA and we are his preferred club we're still in the box seat even if we finish above West Coke. At this point in time I don't think It's that important to finish bottom

To miss the priority we'd need to win 4 of our last 9, it's unlikely and missing the extra pick would hurt. However, it would certainly give a very young side a lot of confidence for next year, especially with Brock gone. If they did manage to win 3 more I'd be proud of the boys and wouldn't be too upset, it's different to last year somehow. Having said that I hope we win 2 more . The more I hear about Watts the more I think he could be right for us, I'll reserve final judgement till closer to the draft but number 1 pick is looking less important by the week. If we do end up with Robbie Warnock, a top 3 and 2 more top 20 picks. All while avoiding the spoon, I'll be absolutely stoked!

I said could not would , but he'd be top 3 at least right now I reckon

I'd have Palmer favourite, but if Aussie wins our goalkicking he'd surely be in the mix. Palmer could win the shockers b&f though

I don't see how a lottery would change anything. Clubs who are out of finals contention would still put injured stars on ice and get them ready for next year and they'd still blood young inexperienced players. Not to do so would be stupid in the extreme. Tanking is largely a myth. Cheaton last year are the first to definately tank IMO, I can't remember anyone else making dodgy coaching moves at critical times in close games.

Bailey summed up our ruck problems prety well. He said neither White or Jamar had been good enough. They gave Jamar more responsibility to see how he'd respond and would be reviewing the tapes to scrutinise his performance. IMO he at least broke even with a quality ruck in Charman. He did a bit around the ground, and his presence at the stoppages is much better than Whites atm. Based on what we've seen from Bails this year the big russian will get at least 3 games to prove himself as first ruck. He's playing for his career right now and I think he responded pretty well yesterday. Get off his back people! Take off the blinkers and give the bloke a fair go. To claim he was useless yesterday only displays your ignorance, I'm not claiming he was a matchwinner, but he was far from useless. I think P.J has cemented himself as preferred second ruck as he is far more versatile than Jamar. If Jamar can't manage to hold down first ruck by seasons end he will probably be moved on, some clubs may be interested in him as a back up ruckman and by giving him an extended run he may show enough to be considered for that. The only way to get any value for the years we've invested in him is to play him now. White has been a great servant but unfortunately has little value to our future.

So who's in the leadership group now? I make it McDonald, Bruce, Green, Miller, McLean, Davey, Moloney and Rivers. Is that right? I'm with Bails on this one, think he's handled what has been a festering sore for us for years very well. Leaders were never accountable under Danners. They'd go missing for 6 weeks straight comfortable in the knowledge they were automatic selections. Like he said in the article, he's been planning long term since he took up the role. I read or heard that his presentation when being interveiwed for the job was the most pessimistic about the short term and stressed the need for a rebuild. If he can have us pushing towards finals in his third year, I'd say he's guaranteed another contract. Accountability to your peers, for everyone. Thats what it seems to me he's trying to achieve. How can that possibly be a bad thing? The players voted and got it wrong, can't blame them most of them haven't been there that long. They elected the Daniher era leaders, that's natural. By having a review he's made them accountable, as suspected they didn't stack up. Seeing Davey, Moloney and Rivers added to the list is encouraging, a next gen is starting to emerge, though I think there's a few more twists and turns before it starts to stabilise. Bails suggested we may go with 2 captains again next year. If so one of them must be Brock IMO. His leadership qualities and talent are obvious. The only way to make someone responsible is to give them some responsibility. He may well make a mistake or two but so did Neita in his early days and I don't think anyone here would argue he was a pretty good captain for a long while.

I'd love to see Brock captain next year. Give the kid some responsibility and let him grow into the role, while the team grows around him. Never been a fan of leadership groups so I'll say Brock- capt Green- v.c Jones, Bruce or Miller- d.v.c

No Doggo you're not out of line at all, but my point was other than this year he hasn't been given a chance to get into games. It takes more time with rucks . He's effectively had 7 games of proper development IMO. I'm not sure if he'll make it, jury's out, but I'd like to see him given every opportunity after putting so many years into him. I think most here seem to agree he's our best tap ruckmen. I believe, though I can't back it up with stats, we are much more competitive in clearances while he's rucking, why wouldn't you start him in the ruck. Sydney had 5 goals on the board before our mids had even touched the ball, game over. Our seasons over, White is 31. P.J showed a bit up forward. I'd play all 3 for a few more games at least, but I'd give Jamar first crack

Jamar should be our first ruck for the rest of the year. I'd love to see the stats for % of clearances won while Jamar is rucking compared to White, even P.J. I'm prepared to eat humble pie if I'm wrong but I'd wager it'd be near double. Our midfielders look much better at the stoppages with Jamar rucking, he even racked up some impressive clearance numbers of his own against the lions and someone else, can't remember who. Yes his disposal isn't great but he's hardly alone there, most of our list need serious work, even one of the captains. And the critisism of his lack of stats is way over the top IMO. He is a young ruckman, 24 I know but only 52 games before this year. Daniher's inability to give gametime to anyone other than White cost us Jolly and Simmonds, and severly stunted the development of Jamar. 52 games of playing the last couple of minutes in each quarter, 5 if Danners was feeling generous. No wonder he couldn't get into the game and find the pill. Those 50 odd games would have been lucky to be worth more than 20 games of any valuable experience. His ruckwork has improved in leaps and bounds this year with more game time, his aggression in the ruck contest is fantastic (I'd like to see more of it around the ground). I haven't seen much of him at VFL level but if it's true, as often stated here, that he dominates, then surely we need to give him an opportunity to show if he can do it in the big time.

Kennett needs victorian clubs to fold before Tassie get their own team. The Tassie gov't is pushing hard for a permanent AFL club . Hawthorn recieves, correct me if I'm wrong, $3million each year from the Tassie gov't to play a few games a year down there. Kennett knows that without that cash injection they're screwed. Unless 2 melbourne clubs fold or relocate before Tassie is granted a team they will have to move or die. It's no coincidence the 2 clubs he's had a go at are us and the roos. Keep talking Jeff, you're only digging a bigger hole for yourself, a few more snipes and hopefully Vlad will decide it's time to throw you in it.

Fair call on Carroll but let's face it, he's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. Consistency is the only way to change the culture. One trade offer or one suspension won't change anything, but hold a consistent line and eventually it might sink in, even to the likes of Carroll. I don't like pointing the finger at individual players, espacially in regards to things I have no idea about. But it's been suggested on here that Sylvia doesn't work as hard as he should and that Dunn has shirked a few contests. I'm not saying that's true, I don't go to training and didn't see the Dunn incident(s). But let's say Bailey feels the same way, he should shop them around. Sylvia may have some currency and Dunn is big and quick, don't forget RR Hawthorn made a pretty good offer for Ferg. Sometimes coaches see things we don't. My main point was just because they're young and we think they could be good, doesn't mean they should be exempt from the right trade.

With a few more retirements to come at years end I'm not sure we should trade any of our senior players. The kids need some experience around them to help them develop. The two names invariably mentioned in these threads are Bruce or Green. Greens courage has been fantastic this year. Time and time again he has ran back with the flight of the ball and had only eyes for the ball, I'd like Morton, Dunn, Buckley et al to see that courage, loyalty and talent are rewarded at Melbourne, not punished. And Bruce, love him or hate him, is an example to all less naturally gifted footballers of what you can achieve with hard work. For a low pick and late starter he's had a fantastic career. I think he frustrates some because we hoped he'd step up to that elite level but never has, but the only reason he got close to elite earlier in his career is because he works so damn hard. His example on the track and his professionalism will bs a good example for those coming through. I hope Bailey only uses trades (this year at least) to reinforce culture. If someone isn't working hard enough or won't put their head over the ball the way he'd like them to, then by all means offer them up for trade. Other clubs might not take the bait, but at least a message will have been sent. I don't think anyone should be immune to this regardless of age or ability. The only other reason I'd like to see a trade is if Bails considers our list too heavy in one area, for example our inside mids. I'd like to see Valenti play most of the second half of the season to find out if he's up to it. McLean is the only one I'd consider untouchable (next captain for mine, but thats another arguement), Jones , Moloney and Valenti I'd consider trading if the right deal could be done. If we could get a high enough pick to get us a quality young KPP, say top 6-8 at worst, while either a) offloading a problem and sending a message to the list or B) adressing imbalances in our list, I for one would be stoked

I was worried about the walk. Thought the club might embarass itself. How wrong I was! Fantastic turn out, giving out the flags was a masterstroke. The sea of flags along Birrarung Marr looked great. Great day, if it happens next year I'll be there.

Where can i buy one Demon4life. You've made the marketing design team that came up with that silver abomination look like fools. I liked the inverse strip but I love this one.

Is there a curtain raiser? Unless the walk takes 2 hours it's going to be a long wait for the past player parade at 1:45. I want to go but don't want to be sitting around bored for hours.