furious d

What makes Sam so special? Are you seriously suggesting that noone should be allowed to question his antics because he was just telling it straight (as he sees it)? Bev O'Connor and other women in football have every right to feel aggrieved. They are actually working to help their respective clubs, not sitting back taking potshots lioke this clown. MMM boned him already and 9 isn't far off. And since when was 500,000 veiwers the majority of Melbourne. You fans of that idiot are a long way from being the majority

There has been a lot to like about Colin and Matty Warnock in the past few weeks. Our backline was a basketcase during ND's era but Bails seems to have a bit to work with earlier than expected. It surprised me to see Garland is listed at the same height as Carroll, seems to play a bit taller. Stefan Martin seems to be progressing nicely at Sandy in only his second year of playing footy. He's playing CHB, and at 198cm could be the key to a promising emerging backline for the future. Our premiership backline? Warnock Garland Petterd Bell Martin Rivers with Bartram Frawley Grimes and Cheney rotating through. None of those guys are over 24. Highly speculative I know but 5 weeks ago I would of struggled to name 6 defenders with a future. As an old full back I'm biased but I believe an at least decent backline is a prerequisite for premierships. We haven't had a full back that elite forwards would have dreaded since Danny Hughes, or a CHB since a young David Neitz went forward. There is plenty of potential in our under 23's, I just hope Bailey can unlock it

Well said Rogue. I've ranted this before I'll rant it again. You don't attract new member's by telling them to pizzle off, they should have been members already. Even worse is telling members to pizzle off if they can't get to games. Work commitments mean I can't make most Saturday day games, others can't make other times. There are a plethora of reasons for not getting to a game and "can't be bothered" is a legitimate one. Everybody has different levels of commitment and for some it grows with time. I became a member 6 years ago, coming on my own. In the second year my sister started coming occasionally, in the third her friend started joining her. They're now in their third year as members and we've got reserved seat's for the first time. They can get to Saturday games and get to more games than me now. Yesterday we sat in our reserved seats for the first time since round 2. At other home games we sat in general admission because our group is starting to grow again. 4 more Dees supporting friends have been joining us sporadically at games. Hopefully with time, and a few more wins, they'll step up to become members. The footy shouldn't be a chore you feel compelled to attend, it should be a social occasion you look forward to, win, lose or draw.

We aren't the only small club being screwed by stadium deals. We should be looking for partners and an inner city venue. Surely north and the bullies would be interested, maybe even Tassie if they decided to move back home. I'm no financial genius but 3 teams playing 4 or 5 games a season would make developing an inner city venue viable IMO. Near the G would be good for us, Arden St could be an option. The kangas get a state of the art training facility, and us and the bullies get favourable deals for chipping in and making it happen. The AFL should kick in some cash and influence to help make it happen. The G, the dome, and a 20,000 seater would cater to all crowd sizes and sure up the stuggling clubs. All avenues should be thoroughly investigated before we commit to anything

Or we could try something novel and use those high picks to draft some potential KPP's. I know it's something the club is loathe to do because it failed once, years ago but it worked pretty well for Hawthorn.

I know Jamar has a way to go to prove he is an AFL footballer, but I think people should give him the benefit of the doubt, and this season, to show something. Our development strategy for rucks under ND was to starve youngsters of opportunity until they either left to further their careers or were delisted. White rucked for 20-25 minutes per quarter for years. Jamar and P.J have been victims of this early in their careers, both are now showing a bit with more opportunity. It's hard to rack up possessions from the bench. Jamar's value on Sunday can't be just measured in disposal's or hitouts. His aggression, tackling, bullocking etc after the centre bounces was responsible for several clearances. It wasn't so much his possessions, but rather the ones he created for McLean, McDonald et al that mattered

Was listening to MMM at the game, Taylor claimed several times early that the crowd was around 10,000 and that cricket idiot referred to the crowd as "the small melbourne supporter base" all day. Danny Hughes towelled that fat tool up repeatedly, it's no wonder he hates us.

Just checked my dream team. Had to bring Aussie off the bench for Chad Cornes, 157 points, should of made him captain! Great game young fella, should get the rising star nod this week.

Just checked my dream team. Had to bring Aussie off the bench for Chad Cornes, 157 points, should of made him captain! Great game young fella, should get the rising star nod this week.

I don't think the club thinks like that either, could have something to do with why we haven't won a flag for 44 years. Trading T.J last year showed maybe they will start taking these hard decisions. I would be sad to see Bruce or Green traded, but the club is bigger than the individual. If we could gain an extra high pick this year without losing any of our younger players (keep Petterd definately IMO) we should do it. This is the last pure draft for several years, with our young list we'd be mad not to. Just when the draft concessions are starting to bite other clubs our list will be maturing nicely.

Agree with your 2 year forecast Sylvinator, except for Robbo, he'll be gone end of next year. I wouldn't rule Jamar out entirely after last week either but he needs to back it up several more times, and soon. But most likely he'll be gone. I'd add C.J as another likely to go within 2 years (prob this year). That's 11 players in 2 years. I think we'd be looking at around 8 delistings this year (maybe more, debends on the size of Bailey's broom) and less, say 6, in the weaker draft the year after. So roughly 3 or 4 of our younger players will most likely be delisted in the next 2 years. Blokes like Bode, Dunn, Newton, Buckley, Sylvia, Meesen, even Bell and Moloney need to pull their finger out and work hard, time isn't on their side. Agree with trading one of Bruce or Green. I'd settle for high second round pick, equals a top 10 pick the following draft. Doubt We'll find anyone stupid enough to take it though.

I for one am far from pessimistic about the draft concessions granted to the new GC and WS teams. They present us with a massive opportunity IMO, but also increase the cost of not tanking last year. This years draft will be the most important in the clubs history and we MUST get it right, with pick 1&2 we probably couldn't have got it wrong (gun tall and gun mid), but it's too late to worry about that now. After this draft no existing club gets a top 10 pick in 2009, top 15 in 2010, or a top 5 in 2011. This years premier gets pick 26, next years 31, that's normally deep second round. I think our under 24's are as good as anyone's. Our big problem at the minute is our small number of 25-28 year olds, and the poor form of our veterans. There is very little we can do about this in the short term, which is why the club should focus on 2013. By then the draft concessions should be starting to bite the current clubs, but the new franchises won't have had time to develop their own youngsters. We should be perfectly positioned to strike. players who turn 18 this year (23 in 2013) Morton, Maric, McNamara 19 (24) Cheney, Grimes, Weetra, Spencer*, Zomer* 20 (25) Jones, Frawley, Bartram, Petterd, Garland, Wonaemirri* 21 (26) Bate, Dunn, Newton, Bode, Buckley, C. Johnson, Valenti* 22 (27) McLean, Martin, Meesen 23 (28) Bell, Sylvia 24 (29) Rivers, Moloney, P.Johnson, Jamar, Warnock 25 (30) Davey, Miller 26 (31) - 27 (32) Green, Wheatley 28 Carroll Bruce 29, Whelan 29, Robbo 30, White 31, Yze 31, Holland 31, McDonald 32, Neitz 33 Bailey was hired for his development credentials, this doesn't happen in a preseason, we need to be patient. If you need evidence of how poor our list management has been, we have less players on our list aged 25,26,27 or 28 than there are 30 and overs, disgraceful. We do, however, have 31 blokes 24 and under (including rookies) and potentially 3 top 20 draft picks! this year! This is why I'm actually enjoying games at the minute, perverse as it sounds. After the first 2 games I started to watch more with an eye to the future and that certainly isn't as bleak as the present. Feel like I'm getting in on the ground floor of what could be a good era for us starting 3-4 years from now. Too long to wait you say? I've been waiting nearly 40 years to see us win a flag and have never even considered us a genuine threat. Even the years we made the big one we were inconsistent. The last thing I want to see is an attempted quick fix. Take your time Bails, but FFS get it right.

Both these lads have 3/4 of a season to show what they can do, a real assessment can't be made until then, and there could be others in the mix by then (injuries, etc). This could come down to the old chestnut, best available v fill a need. My problem is that best available as practiced at Melbourne means get the midfielder. We have a team of midfielder/flankers with a sprinkling of rucks (and I use that term loosley). I believe that 99 times out of a hundred the case could be made that at the time of drafting the smaller mid is better than taller KPP, who takes longer to develop. Potential needs to be factored into the equation somehow. Hawthorn took a risk a few years back and drafted 2 early KPP's, Franklin and Roughead. If we get picks 1,17 and 18 I'd like to see at least 2 potential KPP's grabbed with those picks and maybe a quick outside mid with good skills. Bailey got the job for his development credentials, the area most lacking under ND. We've got a good group of kids but they are all 194cm and below or 199cm and above. We need a better mix of body types coming through together. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Naita is relatively new to footy and from what I've heard is learning very quickly. Don't see any reason he couldn't be developed into a KPP. I was thinking CHB, not power forward. The article mentions his dangerous run and carry out of defence, has a big motor, big leap to spoil. Could be the weapon we need to take on the Franklins, Reiwolts and Pavliches of this world, while also creating and running off himself

I'll admit I don't know much about Rich, but i'd be very disappointed if we passed up this kid. We are in desperate need of a few quality talls and they are much harder to come by.

I applaud you all for going, but these threads make me furious, um, even more so. Blaming fans for the state of the club is not only counter productive but patently absurd. I know most of you haven't done this but it was clearly the doctors intention starting the thread. I can't get to every game and I'm sure many others with a life are in the same boat. Friday night and Saturday day games are impossible because of work and the odd Sunday away game I take the opportunity to get up the country and visit my parents and my brothers and their families. It's a heinous sin putting my carrer and family ahead of the footy club I know. I give this club plenty of dosh every year, I spend more on friggin raffle tickets than my membership, but if thats not good enough drdrake and astrodee maybe I should take my money and go, is that what you want? :angry:

I don't believe this theory about Melbourne supporters. I'm happy to admit I'm wrong if someone can provide figures but I can remember some pretty abysmal crowd numbers for North, Bulldogs and Hawthorn games in recent years when they haven't been travelling well. We have a much smaller fan base than Coll, Ess, Carl and Rich and therefore less diehard fans. Apart from that our product stinks. 3 years in a row we were well placed and flying up till somewhere between rd12 & 16 only for the wheels to fall off. This is disappointing and frustrating. During those 3 years was when we needed to threaten, instead we looked fickle and all too ready to drop our bundle. Now that time has passed, Neitz, White, Yze and Junior won't play in a premiership and we face an extended period in the wilderness because Daniher didn't turn over our list. Football is a business and blaming the customer for not buying your product is counterproductive. Any prospective supporter is going to be turned off if they are castigated for not turning up week in, week out, rain, hail or shine. If you're passionate and go every week great! But the club won't survive without attracting new supporters and members, and you can't expect them all of them to be as passionate as you. So if you want to kill the club by all means alienate those fans who buy memberships but don't go to games when we are losing. 8000 of them had enough of that crap last year :angry:

Think that may be what he's thinking CB. Not a bad idea for attracting up-market sponsors. No other club fills this niche so there could be rich pickings. These companies are huge sponsors of sport, but not really AFL. The difficulty will be convincing them that they'll get value for money. Mac's golf and tennis connections will get his foot in the door at least

Never seen Meesen play but i'm curious if he could be played as a mobile, marking CHF, like a Pav or Reiwolt. He has the motor from all reports, but does he have the ability?

Does anyone know if this is a substitute home game for our home game in Canberra? Only a week till game 1 and I've received no info from the club or anything else for that matter. :angry:

Bailey inherited a list devoid of KPP options. He needs Miller to plug holes until younger options develop. Time will tell if Miller is Bails' pet project but I think he's trying to inject some confidence to make him servicable until Frawley, Martin or someone else steps up

I can't believe that the weagles have produced 3 top 50 players in their 20 year history with 3 premierships, while the dees can only muster 2 in 110 years of VFL/AFL and 12 premierships. Mike Sheahan was, is and always be a moron :angry:

Does anybody know the speed he was doing? If its only a few k's over then IMO this an extreme overreaction. I don't understand why footballers are held to such a ridiculously high standard, whilst important people with huge responsibility, eg pollies, doctors, lawyers etc aren't subject to anywher near this level of scrutiny. Rolemodels I hear you all shout. That is simply bad parenting. Maybe as parents you could try to set an example yourself. Too hard, let the telly do it. :angry:

1.Carlton 2.Essendon 3.Carlton 4.Essendon 5. A tie between Carlton and Essendon

Right on Redfin! I've never gone into a season without talking us up as anything but a premiership contender, it's called being one-eyed people, and we need more of it. I hope you don't talk like this in front of the non mfc supporting rabble out there. I even back it up with my hard earned. You may think that's silly, but during the good year/bad year cycle of ND's reign I won a lot more than I lost. This year I've got a hundred on each of, us to finish higher than the [censored], us to make the 8 and a demon to finish higher than g ableet in the brownlow. For every example of a new coach struggling, there's one of players thriving in a new environment and improved results, it's a roll of the dice and means little. Were we to have a virtually injury free season with 5-7 players having career best years, like Girlong last year, I'd expect us to threaten. We have a reasonable group of players under 50 games or so, if half of them step up and some of our older brigade do well, who knows. How many of you tipped us to play in a grand final in 2000? I did, just got the result wrong

I'm not overly concerned about yesterday. Bailey has talked about not putting limits on the players and I think he'll give everybody who's fit enough a run in the preseason to show the players he means it. Not a bad idea to throw a young team out in the spotlight of the NOB cup and see how they go, then ease your better players into it away from the glare. I'd rather use early practice matches to experiment and later one's to prepare for round 1. Hopefully we can surprise a few teams early now that the perception of us as a bottom 4 side has been "confirmed".