the fork

You and your multiple personas on this website can take your player bashing elsewhere. Demonland has become a hateful place of late. So many people complain about our clubs lack of culture and don't realise that by aggressively attacking players you are a part of the destructive culture that is destroying our club. Take a look at yourself and behave as your father and his father was expected to, before you could hide behind some piddly little avatar on the Internet.

We're in this! Yes I am surprised. I agree with the general feeling here, Rodan looks a mile off. Kent just presents as the obvious option or am I missing something. I love Jordie but the: grab ball - stick under arm - duck tackle (existent or not) is getting a little tiring. Just the speed and movement of Evans and to an extent M. Jones was really noticeable in the first quarter. We also need to shut Beamer down as others are suggesting. Carn Dees!

You gotta laugh the prevailing group think on Demonland some times which sees any 'new' poster (read: outsider) that arrives suggesting an unpopular view is automatically stamped as a Troll. Give the guy a break. The crux of what he is suggesting was reported in the press and his conclusions are there to be drawn without you labelling him a troll. Why resort to name calling and just disagree? Or is that not the Demonland way?

I'm only running on the little Biff is offering. I know nothing.

Biff. We're talking Ratts right? Possibly that is?

Biff, I can't help but think this question is in some way connected to the inside word you heard about the club today. Am I way off?

I'm confident we'll improve on last week, but improve enough to beat GWS, who will be up and about? I'm not sure. GWS and Kevin know a scalp is on the line. Whilst neither will admit it, they'd love to claim it.

Nineteen I just want to thank you for the work you do for the club and bringing a part of it to Demonland. I wish I was in a position to help the club the way you do, and because I can't I am very thankful for the people like you who do. Cheers.

I just can't see us sacking Neeld after a loss this weekend. I wish I had a reason as to suggest why but I don't. Perhaps it's founded in my belief that we need an experienced coach and that there are none currently available that would come to us. We missed our opportunity with Ross Lyon who I was desperate to get. Question: Would we be in our current predicament with Lyon as coach? Perhaps impossible to answer but I'm interested to hear people's views.

I'm in Roost. Always have been, always will. Each and every poster on this site will live to regret the 'I'm gone' statements they've littered each and every thread with. Will we rise again? Of course we will. Will the above mentioned defeatists be a part of it? Not if they have any shame they won't. You never desert your club, no matter the circumstance.

@ Whispering Jack. I can confer with the above. Rudeboy attended the entire trial and flew out just after. I spoke with Rupert who along with Bruce was very disappointed with Liam missing his Adelaide court appearance.

Speaking as a resident of Central Australia, one of the things that has really frustrated locals during the Jurrah saga (I think we can turn that phrase now) is the media's infatuation with the fate of a fallen sporting idol rather than what is at the heart of the issue, which is the ongoing substance abuse and violence in Central Australia. I have come to feel the same way about a number of posters opinions in this thread. Do most of you have a genuine interest in the chronic problems prevalent in indigenous community's of Australia, or have you formed your opinions during the unfolding crisis that has enveloped Liam and his kin? Obviously for many of you Liam has highlighted or bought you closer to the these issues. The problem with this though is that many of you are basing your opinions on Liam's journey alone while not looking at the bigger issue. When Liam was first recruited to Melbourne my jaw hit the floor. I was thrilled, amazed and caught completely unawares. I know the community where he comes from and many others like it. I have known hundreds of men his age over the past decade. I knew the conditions in which they grew up, I saw the issues they are forced to confront and have witnessed first hand the carnage of alcohol, petrol, drugs and violence. For the vast majority of young men I knew, joining an AFL club and living away from family in Melbourne was possibly the most extraordinary thing they could do. By that I mean it is about a big a leap as they could take. For many, even the extremely talented footballers, players with ability like Liam, a move to an AFL club would be incomprehensible. Most, if offered the opportunity, would flatly turn it down. This, I understand, for those of us who harboured, or harbour aspirations to play at the highest level is in itself incomprehensible. Why would a young man turn his back on such a opportunity? Because a life living away from family and country, many would consider, is a life not worth living at all. It certainly wouldn't be substituted by money, fame and the feeling of running onto the MCG. So when Liam was not only recruited, but then accepted his chance I knew we had recruited an extraordinary man to our club. The fact that Liam worked his way into the team was quite frankly something I never thought would happen. Let me say this another way. I did not think Liam Jurrah would play a single game for the Melbourne Football Club. How, I asked myself, could any man from this region break free from the responsibilities of his family, the problems of his community and commit himself to the rigours of AFL football? How could he transform his body, overcome the enormous language barriers, conform to a strict routine, completely change his diet, live with a different family, navigate a city like Melbourne, forgo his ongoing cultural responsibilities and simply survive? I thought it all impossible, which makes what he did achieve the most amazing story I personally will ever see in football. But more on that later. When he started to play and play the way he did I honestly elevated Liam beyond anyone I thought I knew. I began to believe he was different to the majority of young men I had come into contact with and that somehow he had carved himself a special place in this world where he could achieve whatever it was he wanted to do. These thoughts were given air by the gushing write ups from the media, from people like Martin Flanagan. I left all common sense behind and slowly Liam's journey in my mind became less remarkable as Liam was no longer a skinny kid from Yuendumu making it big in the AFL he was different, so the laws of the gravity of his home country no longer applied. This of course was a terribly mistake in my mind. For what this slow unravelling of his life over the past year has shown is that he is no more capable of escaping the issues of his upbringing anymore than the next person. The problems of this most troubled space apply to him like they apply to every single other person who lives here. Liam was a man who was offered an extraordinary opportunity, who had the guts, determination and will to take it. I for one feel blessed that he did and I applaud the club I love for its support of Liam which I know continues to this day. I wish some of you felt the same. PS: Mistakes were made by all parties in this saga. But I believe there was no mistake the Melbourne Football Club made which can account for the current situation. For those of you suggesting that Rudeboy is in anyway to blame in this scenario I might suggest the following. He might have been the difference between Liam being recruited or not. Such is the enormity of the role he has played in Liam's life. Many young men and women from this region would love to have a mentor such as him, someone to assist in their journey in life. The assertion that some of the mistakes Liam has made can in some way be attributed to Rudeboy is absurd in the extreme and highlights the distance with which many of you see life for young indigenous and non-indigenous people In Central Australia.

Robbie I think I walked past not long after this had happened. Altercations around the court happens occasionally, the worry is when this spills over into the town camps at night when alcohol is consumed. It's hard to understand the sense of expectation upon especially the young men from this region to stand for their kin. Liam becoming involved was probably inevitable, but still disappointing. But what must be understood by those contributing to this thread is that this is a very complex situation. Those posters, including myself, who refuse to pass judgement on this situation, due to their distance to the issues involved, are probably taking the appropriate path. This comment is not to stifle comment and opinions, but rather ask for this case to play itself out with respect to a past player of ours under siege.

Just walked past the courthouse here in Alice Springs to see a worried and tense Liam standing on the steps being both yelled at and cheered by opposing families in this feud. Across the road in the park tensions simmered, police intervened as Liam strode back inside. A little reminder to you all during your bickering, that while we can chip in and switch off as we please, the fighting, the threats and the realities of the hard circumstances indigenous Australians live with, rolls on impossible to escape.

Coverage of day two of the trial: http://www.alicespringsnews.com.au/2013/03/11/jurrah-case-starts/

Yes sorry Jack, I was referring to the first part of your post. Simply suggesting the Alice Springs News as a good, balanced news source. Notable is the description of the jury as being mostly white. The people of Alice Springs, black and white, are sick of the drug fuelled violence in town and want to put a stop to it. Further to this however is the frustration with the apparent leniency when it comes to sentencing. There is a lot of sympathy with the Police at the moment who are doing all they can only to have judges (seemingly in locals eyes) letting those prosecuted off lightly. The local jail is overflowing with a obviously high number of indigenous prisoners and the situation in Yuendumu would appear to have no end in sight (For those of you that care, while the recent chapter of this story goes back to a terrible death a few years ago, for the groups/families involved, the origins of this feud goes back decades). What this means for Liam, I'm not sure, but there are plenty of people involved in this case, who want him to be made an example of.

I'll counter that and suggest if you are interested in fair coverage this is the best news site in Central Australia by a mile: http://www.alicespringsnews.com.au/2013/03/11/jurrah-case-starts/

It is terribly refreshing to open a thread and see that the Original Poster has put some thorough consideration into the question they are asking. I think it's a great way to start a thread and engage readers in meaningful debate rather than just one liners back and forth. My thought is that we do have a list that is capable of improving dramatically. The question remains however if that is going to be to the point of winning the cup. Remember when Brock was apparently unhappy with the 5 year plan that was thrown around after 2008. Well that 5 years is almost up and we are still a long way off. It all comes down to development and what our coaches can do with the list, but more importantly its about us finding new leaders who can stir the passion in the playing group and getting us playing as a team that works hard for one another.

Range Rover what gives you the right to criticise a person like Rubeboy? Do you have any idea whatsoever what that man has provided for Liam Jurrah and his family over a number of years? I cannot understand people on these forums with no knowledge whatsoever of the actual reality of other peoples lives making stupid statements and excusing them by saying 'it's my opinion!' As has been stated on here before by people close to Liam, Bruce (Rudeboy) has been integral to Liam making it into the AFL system. With regards to the book and it's significance, it is a celebration of one mans journey in life and where he has come from and how far he has traveled. Liams story is not purely a football story. From game none to one carries more weight than from here on in and any dispute of that fact flys in the face of the issues and realities facing indigenous people from the region where Liam is from.

I've posted this elsewhere but thought I'd put it here. Chris Knights is one of very few AFL players I have reliable info on and mine tells me that Footy just isn't a real priority for the lad. He is heavily involved in a business he started and this remains his priority (good for him). Had a big offer from the Tiges last time round which apparently surprised him. Only a slightly better offer kept him at the Crows. I want footballers, die hards, traded for and drafted. Not players that don't have their heart in it.

Chris Knights is one of very few AFL players I have info on and mine tells me that Footy just isn't a real priority for the lad. Had a big offer from the Tiges last time round but business interests (his main interests) and a slightly better offer kept him at the Crows. I want footballers, die hards, traded for and drafted.

Just thought I'd pass on the following link to the best local news source here: http://www.alicespringsnews.com.au/ Kieran Finnane is an excellent journo, very well versed on local issues, which unfortunately means she's done a lot of court reporting. Also Jon Tippett QC is very highly respected in the Territory. Liam could not have it any better on that front.

Where is the humour in perpetuating stupidity? Maybe people who laugh at his tripe are 'the stupid ones'.

This is a fantastical cluster of simply ridiculous statements. Bluey you seem to suggest that it is Misson and Craig's fault that our list is unfit and injured. Firstly, please explain to us, with reference to our injury list below, how these injuries can be directly attributed to our 'high performance team'. You also state that the reason we are unfit is because of the work our new fitness have done with our players thus far. So please explain how on earth it is humanly, physically possible to attribute the collective fitness level of a group of individuals to a new fitness team that has been in charge for ONE single pre-season? Are you specialised in this field? Because anyone who is would tell you that it is simply not possible. Round 16 injury list Clint Bartram (knee) - season Mitch Clark (foot) - season Michael Evans (back) - test Max Gawn (knee) - season Mark Jamar (calf) - test Liam Jurrah (ankle) - 2 weeks Kelvin Lawrence (calf) - 2 weeks Tom McDonald (lung) - test James Sellar (thigh) - test Jai Sheahan (ankle) - 2 weeks Rory Taggert (back) - indefinite Josh Tynan (concussion) - test

Life member. I'd like to reach out to all the lurkers such as myself who don't have much to say but read and therefore benefit, daily. Give to the site that keeps on giving (ludicrous trade scenarios, ranting and raving, extremely premature draft prospects and crusty old farts with no optimism mixed with a bunch of school kids on holidays). It's all good, unfortunate player bashing aside, most of the time and well worth being a part of. Put your money where your keyboards are!