the fork

Two minutes ago during the Blues, Geelong game, Denis Commeti: Brock's pace can be deceptive, sometimes he's slower than he looks!

Geez uninformed snipes from anonymous keyboard heroes on the sidelines makes my blood boil. GTG do you even know the nature of this particular injury? How can you possibly attribute our injury list to one individual who has been at the club a little over six months? Are you also claiming the club is in some way responsible for this injury list as they employed Misson? Do you have a sports science background? And now that you seem to have identified the problem (Misson) are you going to let someone at the club know?

Is the above stated rumor the one Mark Stevens' just tweeted about? I must admit I have no idea what is being spoken about here... StevoHeraldSun Mark Stevens Neeld rumour been swirling around for 3-4 weeks. Who started it? Seems impossible task, but Dees have tossed ball into AFL's court. My apologies I ave just woekn up, caught the news on what this tweet refers to. Sorry.

You're quite possibly right UTAH, but I'm simply suggesting lets wait until a 'full strength' team is on the park and plays half a season together, then we can analyise where we're up to. Amazing that Dean Bailey was given Three years and Mark Neeld gets one game! Get a grip ladies and gents.

Thats just plain simple stuie. The club has been waiting for 58 years, not the team. What about waiting until the team has time to adjust to a new game plan? (one which centres around a forward target since Neitz) What about allowing an almost completely new coaching group time to work with the players in reaction to what they produce on the field. Wait for Sylvia to return, Liam to appear, Grimes to get some match fitness after months away from the game. Give the team at least until round 12 until you write them off.

Once again too many on here believing (rather simplistically) that change = success It's going to take more than one pre-season to transform this team into a club. Patience. And don't say you've been waiting since '64, because this team is Neeld's team.

The King is dead, long live the King. RIP Jim Stynes. What would he want us to do today to honor him? He would want every lapsed, past, forgotten, lazy barracker of our footy club to become a Member.

It's heartening to see some positive responses to my rather heavy post. Thanks for the comments and the 'likes'. I'm happy that enough that people have probably read it on this thread and hopefully considered some of the issues. So I am not compelled to do too much more with it unless some feel others would benefit. As time moves on and hopefully Liam's focus turns to footy, lets hope we never forget the issues this incident has provoked. Cheers.

Hey Jack. The centre of Australia is a troubled space, now more so than ever in my time here. I dont want the broader issues and incidents I discuss in the following post to reflect on Liam and the incident that he has alleged to have been a part of. Nor do I wish to suppose to have any specific knowledge on the Yuendumu situation. But perhaps some of the following can provide some context for understanding the reported events on Wednesday night and the commentary that has flowed since. The incident earlier this week, allegedly involving possibly this countrys most famous indigenous person, seems to have (momentarily) thrust some attention upon the difficult lives of Aboriginal people in Central Australia. The popular media has suggested that this incident was cultural. It also seems to have been suggested that our inability to properly comprehend this incident stems from our disinterest and our collective failure to understand Aboriginal people and their culture. A part of this I agree with, I see something a little different however in how the incident itself has been reported and interpreted. This incident, as we know, was part of an ongoing feud. It has been suggested that those involved were part of a legitimate attempt at ritual retribution. I think it is important when interpreting the events of the week to have some historical understanding of payback and how it has evolved into what it is today. Historically payback in the Western Desert occasionally involved groups of males (ritual avengers) who sought out specific individuals deemed to have caused wrong to a family member of theirs. They were not random acts of violence. When the guilty party was located a confrontation, either by ambush or in special circumstances, a mutually organised event took place. In some instances during post-contact times payback evolved into a highly organised, strictly governed sequence of events (more like a performance or ceremony) that was minutely controlled by a group of senior men. The physical act, of the spearing in most instances, was always performed by the appropriate avenging family member who was either experienced in such acts or was closely instructed by the afore mentioned senior men. This was often to ensure the wound was not fatal and to satisfy those seeking retribution by way of the temporary affliction of pain and crippling upon the wrong-doer. I have witnessed a recent (8 years ago) version of such events. It was attended by the entire community, it occurred in the middle of the day and in a neutral part of the community. It all transpired under the close surveillance of an experienced team of members from the Northern Territory Police force. Medical staff from the local clinic were also on hand to tend to the resultant wounds after the procedure was complete. At no stage did this event stray from its intent. It saw a partial end to the ill feeling between the two families involved and the same process settled a number of other ongoing disputes. This is not to say however that the original act of violence or sorcery was forgotten or forgiven. Often the ramifications of such incidents last and manifest themselves in other ways. Such carefully organised events are unfortunately rare. Current acts of payback in the town camps of Alice Springs happens on an almost weekly basis. The disturbing, almost guaranteed ingredient these days however is of course alcohol. There has been a strong tendency, over a number of decades, to attempt to excuse pure drunken violence as cultural payback. It is problematic then when Wednesday nights incident, which it must be said, was typical of the norm in Central Australia, is reported, interpreted and then understood as some sort of traditional or culturally sanctioned right of passage. There is a vast irreconcilable difference between the strictly governed form of retribution described previously and the alcohol fueled free-for-all that is currently commonplace. Whilst I believe there needs to be an acknowledgement of Aboriginal law within Whitefella law, which I extend to include controlled retribution, I do not accept the oft presented and disturbingly popular consideration that the violence as it occurs almost nightly in Alice Springs is cultural. There must come a time when racial politics must step aside and yield to reason. Make no mistake, I believe Liam was/is highly obliged to play his role as a well regarded member of a family involved in a complex dispute. The words in the previous sentence may sound pithy, but the heavy expectation upon family in Central Australian indigenous culture is impossible to fathom from the outside, where I consider myself to sit. Liam is expected and obliged to express his feelings about the death of his kin. Violence, it is said, is an expression of feeling (this comes from an excellent book on a neighboring cultural group the Pintupi). Liam is obviously attempting not to shirk his responsibilities in two worlds with two differing peer groups. Because when its all over and he returns to the Western Desert with a premiership medallion around his neck, he must face his family and stand as the true Warlpiri man I expect he is. I try to remind myself that every football career is a relatively short one and that football is just a part of his life. This is a bitter pill to swallow if you are footy mad and not understanding of Liams extreme circumstance. None of this explains why he was at Little Sisters and he put himself in the circumstance he did. None of this excuses his actions. It is devastating and together we feel it. The one thing I take solace in though is Liam himself. Some thought Rudeboys fantastic biography on Liam was premature and a few never bought into Brett Badgers assertion that for Liam the journey to game number 1 was greater than the journey to game 200. Ive met Liam a few times, but dont know him from a bar of soap. What I do know though is where he has come from, my wife grew up on a neighboring community Even if you saw it with you own eyes, you like me, would still fail to fathom it. The Liam Jurrah effect in Central Australia is palpable. Kids want to be him and wear our colours because he does. These kids have had a magnificent role model, which for me is what makes this week so difficult to swallow. Cars parade around the desert emblazoned in windscreen-wide Demons stickers. A relative of his I know well, whose name is spelt slightly differently due to a bureaucratic misspelling, desperately wants to change his name by deedpoll, so proud he is of his nephew Liam and his relationship to him. I suppose my motivation for writing this post is multi-pronged. I hope the complexity of Liams situation is a little more exposed and that understanding may come from it. I also want to respond to the concern some posters share about the circumstance of people in Central Australia. Because this is the guts of the pain and confusion we have felt this week. Liam has made a series of bad decisions to be in the position he is. But I encourage you all to stand by him and our proud club on our collective learning curve. When he returns to play the game he loves consider for a moment not just the journey Liam continues to travel upon, but the journey we, as his supporters, do as well. ---- Indigenous disadvantage in this country is a real thing. I cannot begin to discuss this issue here as it just doesnt feel right. But remember this; Liam comes from a chronically underfunded community where there is almost zero opportunities for long-term meaningful employment. His family have probably never had the opportunity to own their own home. The Fedral Governments Intervention saw all Aboriginal men throughout the Territory cast with the suspicion of being drunken pornographic obsessed pedophiles. Just look at the big signs as you enter any and ever Aboriginal community here. His families income is managed by the government who tell them where they can and cannot spend their money. Some non-indigenous people who live on Aboriginal communities and receive government assistance are exempt. Why? Because their not indigenous. How? The Howard government suspended the Racial Discrimination Act in this country. Rudd and Gillard have upheld this since. Imagine how you would feel. -------- Earlier this year a 9 year old girl hanged herself in her home community on the Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Lands in South Australia. 9 years old. Also in Central Australia, a coroner earlier this week described the body of a domestic violence victim as having injuries consistent with what one would expect if the body had fallen from an aircraft in flight. On Tuesday in Alice Springs a woman from a community 380kms west of Alice Springs had her throat slit. Her husband is being sought for questioning as the prime suspect in the case. But perhaps what has motivated me to share my thoughts with you today is what I woke to this morning. Just last night a dear old friend of mine was violently stabbed to death in a camp not far from Little Sisters. He too was from a remote community and was the victim of a family dispute fueled by drugs and alcohol. His own brother is wanted for questioning. His mother inconsolable, a family devastated. My concern, which I cannot answer, is why is this happening and why dont you as Australians know and hear about it like I do? --- For me Jack, Demonland (& Demonologys) proudest moment was when we bought his debut guernsey and gifted it to the community of Yuendumu. I am assured it does stand as the beacon we wanted it to be and always will. I know Liams Grandmothers acceptance of our gift was a proud moment for those present. It showed that people understood, even way back then, what a special person was in our midst. There have been questions asked during this last week of what one can do to understand, to help or assist. I might suggest some websites below of organisations that rely on the support of good people. Mt Theo http://www.mttheo.org/home/ Western Desert Nganampa Walytja Palyantjaku Tjutaku Aboriginal Corporation http://wdnwpt.org.au/ The Central Australian Aboriginal Alcohol Programs Unit http://www.caaapu.org.au/ The Ngaanyatjarra Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara (NPY) Women's Council http://www.npywc.org.au/index.html Drug and Alcohol Services http://www.dasa.org.au/

Damn. I completely understand the time taken to bring us a better mobile experience but must say the non-mobile version is a bore to navigate on a mobile.

Hey Jack. Just a small, but at the same time significant thing. Little Sisters is in Alice not Yuendumu. Cheers.

A simple answer to Liam's presence in Alice Springs is that due to a tremendous amount of rain we have had here recently a great number of roads have been closed. Transport services have also been cancelled and will not resume, for the most part, until Saturday. The vast majority of the Yuendumu community has been in Alice for the past fortnight.

I have a good friend who ran into Liam late last week here in Alice. He said that Liam was back in Central Australia during what is a difficult time for the Yuendumu community and was looking forward to returning to Melbourne when appropriate. He also mentioned that apart from his wrist he was feeling fantastic. The suggestion that there is some parallel between this situation and Wonna's is way off the mark. Relax, from what I know and have heard of Liam he is an exceptional young man trying to fulfill his responsibilities in two very different worlds.

@Chook You see my point though huh? Yes Bennell didn't play terribly well but did he deserve the above? Who knows what his instructions were? For me he's a bottom six player, but I'm not going to write him off for having a crack in the NAB Cup and failing. I just think after playing in the conditions we did under a contrived set of rules and a new format it is unfair to pass such harsh abusive judgement on our players. Love the sarcasm at the end of your post, truly.

I understand some things on Demonland are written in the heat of the moment or off the cuff to satisfy ones disappointment at our players, our coaches and our club. Here on this great website for avid supporters of the greatest club in the world, we should expect the same composure, accountability and restraint from our posters, that we expect from our players (who are operating in the real heat of the moment). So for me the following posters are on notice... Seriously it was a hokey-pokey game played within a questionable competition in atrocious conditions. It was Neeld's first game at his new club, the first wiff of a game plan that was forced to fit within a restrictive set of rules. The over reaction of several supporters on here is pathetic. Bagging players and the team under the circumstances listed above is unacceptable. No I'm not happy with mediocrity, I'll just call it at an appropriate, justified time. PeterJames Bennell's last game in demon colours, enjoy casey. Gysberts has cement boots. Has anyone seen davey since 2010? BIG JIM I am a bit angry we could not knock of a poor team like the gold coast it is the nab cup but we should be putting teams like this away bennel was shocking Striker475 I'm at the game - the umpiring was a genuine joke, Bennell was awful and the whole team looked half-arsed. demoniac Jamar stupid, just stupid. RalphiusMaximus This is disgraceful Juicebox The score really doesn't reflect how bad we've played. Hard to find any positives thus far. Still Waiting This was a game to be won...........we lost..........against the GoldCoast, FFS. Same old pathetic skills by us............ not them! It's gunna be a long 2012 . tatu what a joke of a performence! were going too lose both games against poor sides.... positive is compo picks, with efforts like this, we'll get picks 1&2.....Tanking? no where just [censored]! Gotzy15 Absolutely pathetic!!!!! Geez what a disgraceful half! Bring back Bailey!!! stranga Leopards don't change their spots unfortunately. Attricious skills and decision making, conditions considered. Haven't seen anything I wanted to see in terms of structure and game plan. The bombing into 50 will not work. Can only hope that was partly due to the weather. Chook Jack Watts was pretty disappointing, and I really don't want to see Jamie Bennell in the side until he learns how to either get more possessions or become significantly more accountable. Jaded Bennell is looser than a cheap street corner hooker. Franky_31 Those who did the training reports really need to look at themselves... Curry & Beer we sucked can anyone recall a single passage of play that impressed them? I can,t business as usual down at the MFC Curry & Beer Whispering_Jack, on 25 February 2012 - 10:33 PM, said: Matthew Bate might well have reinvented himself as a midfielder. surely you jest? did not do a single positive thing all night, succeeded mostly in gifting the opposition the football PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING POSTER’S OPINION WAS GATHERED FROM LISTENING TO THE GAME ON THE RADIO, NOT WATCHING THE ACTUAL GAME!: RalphiusMaximus I'm very worried about our movement into the forward line. We seem to have reverted to the "bomb it long and hope for the best" tactic that served us so badly for the last few years. RalphiusMaximus I'm also hearing a lot of us getting clearances and immediately turning it over. Unacceptable. RalphiusMaximus Why do none of our forwards ever take a shot? I'm hearing a lot of people taking the ball at the hot spot and passing. Not a lot of picking it up and snapping for goal. RalphiusMaximus Sounds like Watts will be lucky to play round 1.

Magner a certainty for round 1 those who are watching the game?

I may be mistaken but wasn't Gaff a Melbourne supporter as a kid? I know in the new world order of the AFL this means very little at all, I'm just highlighting something Gaff had in common with Judd. Sorry if this has been mentioned above, I'm sleep deprived...

Neeld to speak on SEN morning show tomorrow with Andy Whatshisname and Tim Watson.

I had commented previously that the announcement was possibly bought forward to place Trengove as the 'youngest VFL/AFL captain of all time'. Emma Quayle suggests in the Age this morning that Trengove was ten days younger than Dench when named captain. If we knew teh make up of the leadership group this fact was worth capitalising on.

It's difficult to fathom some posters disappointment with the senior players who were dropped from our leadership group. I believe it has been the failure of our senior leaders to actually lead in desperate times of need over the past few years that has directly attributed to our poor form. Their inability to 'stand up' in pivotal games, like 186, has been the hallmark of our directionless, dispassionate, bruise-free style of football.

My earlier theory doesn't really stand up. Dench was the previously the youngest captain in the VFL/AFL. Trenners still had 40 days grace. But my point is made simply by visiting afl.com.au and comparing the coverage Trangove/Grimes has recieved when compared to Swallow from the Roos.

Is it possible that this announcement was somewhat sprung upon us to ensure that Trenners was indeed the 'youngest captain ever' and therefore thereby receive increased media coverage? I haven't done the sums but seems possible... As much being said about the club at the moment by the list of names left out of the leadership group IMO. No Davey, Beamer or Green (in particular) sends a message to those players specifically and to the younger players coming through. This announcement marks a genuine generational shift at the club and I think its a bloody good thing. Something said previously about Beamer perhaps not wanting to be in the leadership group rings a little true. I don't know why, his omission is very notable and needs to be explained (not publicly, just in my mind). Overall very happy with this appointment. I can't help but think on Trapper and that pick 14... thanks Brisbane, you handed us our co-captain.

Sign me up. Finished within the top 5000 last year.

Josh love the idea but too often the MCG has been HELL for Dees supporters. I'll never forget that Brisbane game last year... the worst win I've ever suffered and yes not to far from HELL.

During the preseason competition my father and went , as I am sure plenty of you did, to the practice match against Brisbane at VISY Park. I must admit to being ignorant of Clark until that day, but I was struck by this agile tall man who seemed to just be everywhere. He was noticeably strong overhead and just seemed to brush our defence aside, it was terribly frustrating to watch as an opposition supporter. I'm not sure what his stats were that day but he impacted upon the game enormously. I'm stoked he's now playing for us and that the club has gone out on a limb to land a 'big fish' and that motivations of the player aside, his destination is the MFC. Great get. Go you bloody Demons!