Engorged Onion

Great question! How long is a piece of string!

Amusing, insofar that Mark Stevens who has been in the industry for decades decided to use a descriptor ‘heavy-hitter’ vs a specific job title. Now that’s not meant to be disparaging to Alan, he may do a lot of good in his role...

I feel it's a couple of things within the systems - as you have already said @Grr-owl - that seperate our 'best games' vs weaker performances. Midfielders not running both ways with urgency/filling up space/haranguing - so what shifts the willingness to do it weekly? Forwards essentially not doing the same thing Smaller handballs to stationary players - so do all the players around the ball 'feel' pressured and don't want to be he one with the pill caught holding it - essentially playing emotionally safe I think also the oft quoted scoreboard pressure really helps validate that we are doing ok, which feeds in to confidence to continue to be expansive and take risks - rather than dishing it off short (and the 'pressure' goes back on to the other team) - so what if Kossie had got his 2, Melksham etc etc... On that note - that is what needs to be worked on - as it is evidenced that they can do it well - its how do they work through the pressure on them when they have the ball to create better opportunities for each other... On another side note - I dislike the language of 'we only do it on our terms' - essentially all teams do that. You could rule a line through 9 teams each weeks that didnt have it on their terms... that's not the issue at hand.

It's interesting @bjDee - I'm 40 - so don't recall Muir playing - but do remember commentators reference 'mad dog muir'. It makes sense why someone subjected to socially sanctioned, and systemic racism would at times react SO SO strongly (the notion of a mad dog),and the fact of not a single person had an a) understanding of your emotional experience, and b) having your back/support. My head goes to Sean Charles's experience. I must have been 12/13 perhaps a bit younger and remember the language, when he (im sure people can correct me) turned up later to pre season training, or perhaps broke his leg and didnt hang around the club. The langauge in the media (perhaps from MFC) was that he went 'walk about' - which of course is rather derogatory, dismissive and a lack of cultural respect. So for mine, he would be perhaps an indigenous person the football club have failed...from the outside looking back 25 years ago.

Wasn’t sure where to put this mods. Here is an uncomfortable article dealing with the impact of racism in the VFL, with a very brief portion from a very humanistic John Northey. Losing makes me sad, but not as a sad as how we treat those ‘different’ from us. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-23/persecution-of-robert-muir-story-football-doesnt-want-to-hear/12553554 Go Dees.

one thing I'll let you in on about Bailey Smith is his appetite for working hard, and improvement - shown it since the age of 12. For context, his Dad owns a national chain of Golf stores... very very wealthy and lovely folk, with amazing work ethic. If i was smarter, I would have put a lazy pineapple on him winning a brownlow at the age of 14.

got a link?

*sigh* Damian, remember the time 20 years ago, where you held a defenceless 18yo up to a then 30yo to get punched to the head neck and face on the football field in a 2v1? Oh, yes different times etc etc

Erm, upload it please ...then I'll upload it somewhere.

So... just to wedge another Jonathon Wilson (from The Guardian) article in here (and I wonder if this is my own confirmation bias, trying to force this upon Goodwin and the FD strategy or philosophy). "bayern-munichs-thomas-muller-relocates-interpretation-of-space" But what did resonate with me was this. The article is about one person's role in the game, someone who wouldn't be normally be seen in anyones All Australian (all Deutschland??) - so essentially a version of the cliched moneyball theory. It talks about systems and how one person helps the system... "It was in that same interview that, asked to describe himself as a player, Müller coined the term “Raumdeuter”. A pun on “Traumdeuter” – an interpreter of dreams, like Sigmund Freud or Daniel – it means something like an interpreter of space, and it’s remarkable for two reasons. Firstly, as he showed in his awkward attempts to popularise “Lewangoalski” on Friday, word play seems not to come naturally to him. But more, because it shows such acute self-awareness. Space is what he deals in; manipulating it is what is what he does. Müller is a little clumsy. His oddly long arms perhaps make him look a little gawkier than he actually is. He isn’t a great dribbler. He isn’t the cleanest striker of the ball. He isn’t unduly quick or strong. But his reading of the game, his instinct for where space and chances will appear and his work rate are remarkable. Müller didn’t touch the ball in the immediate buildup to any of the three goals. Statistically his contribution didn’t register. And yet his movement was integral to each goal. " But there is another comment that I thought...'ohhhhh, [censored] yeah, this is where we are at now...transitions'... "It’s not counterattacking as such, but Flick’s (Bayern's coach) approach is very characteristic of the modern Bundesliga, A game based in transitions." and so my head goes back to the OP - which referenced "Those two attributes – controlling the transition from attack to defence, and organising an attack – can be used as a simple test of managers. Klopp excels at both" As @A F has discussed AND some others on here (apologies for not naming) -as evidenced by the win against Collingwood - whereby we lost clearances and I50's - we transitioned really well, to then organise the attacks. Jake Lever spoke about all the things that are done by players not seen on TV, that are not possession based that our team(midfield) is now really believing in the utility of, and are now getting the evidence that it is worthwhile in the pursuit of success. Again this is about transition...(in my eyes) Jake also spoke about 'That counting possesion stats by media or supporters is now redundant in what is truly valuable to the team'. I thought this article also said much the same.

My first love was RIcky Jackson - I was born 3 months premature - so always small growing up (don't worry, I'm a unit now) - he was small and jumped out of lockers on the Vinyl Edition of C'Mon Demons- so there was a nice connection for me there. I always liked Stephen Tingay (does anyone remember the time at West Coast he blind turned after almost getting chased down on the wing and the two WCE players smashed into one other), Sean Charles, Kevin Dyson and Guy Rigoni and cried when David Schwarz did his knee at Lavington. But - YZE always did it for me Currently... Charlie Spargo... I just like the little ones, who are quirky... I suspect he will be a big game player.

@dpositive - I know nothing of Chaos Theory and the pillars behind it and I see that you have said that there are patterns in Chaos. I feel the language in the media, which then feeds in to fan's view of things, is that 'chaos ball' is condescending to the teams that are allegedly playing it. There are clearly structures in 'chaos ball'... ie:the Bulldogs would handball on quickly, The Tigers would tap the ball on at all costs, we would get multiple I50 entries, as part of their modus operandi... But the language of chaos feeds into this concept that there is no plan...AND if you're losing, it's a bloody awful plan, that any person could come up with. I think there have been some great posts in here, contrasting our style against other teams plans as well.

Clearly, someone should collate the data on this thread, put it in a powerpoint preso with the aim to overthrow Goodwin, Pert and Bartlett and become a legitimate fan's run, democratically voted organisation like Ebbsfleet United/MyFootballClub ?

PM me 'what's going on ' mate

Conceptually the idea of throwing 'magnets' around the whiteboard may be great in country footy - but when you're at the elite level and things are so structured, one person out of the system really [censored] it up. Metaphorically, those that ask for Goodwin (or whatever coach) to 'do something different' by putting back forward, are just wanting to see 'something' innovative... It's like a goal keeper in soccer/football - When they are trying to stop a penalty, they have three options, left, right and centre (staying put)... if they stay put it looks REALLY REALLY awful if the ball goes in because it looks like inaction, vs diving left when it goes right - from a viewers perspective it just looks like a really great kick!

@binman I think the last point actually invalidates the premise behind Type 2, if I am interpreting the statement correctly. What I mean by that is in the coaching interview process - the coach details his philosophy to the board as to why it is congruent with winning premierships. He (it could clearly be a she) details how he creates buy in. But then... he walks into a club with players with exisiting strengths...and just like Goodwin - moves out players over numerous seasons that he believes will not fit in to, or do not have the competence to excel in his philosophy. And then subsequently forms relationships (or has historical relationships), with people that can help him execute said philosophy that are already in the elite system...see Lewis, see Langdon, see Burgess...and drafts for those that could also fit those requirements, see Oliver, Jackson, Rivers. I'd argue all coaches are Type 1 (in this case). What fan wouldn't see their coach is stubborn, reactive etc - when their coach is coaching a team that is not winning. It's too confusing being 'so flexible' (yes it's on a spectrum) for players to commit to a style and roles that chop and change. What I would say, is that it's the way the coaches/managers have their relationships that enable success. There is some great stuff on Mourinho and his seige mentality - us against them whilst at Porto, Chelsea, Real Madrid - and then 3 years of that [censored], the players (and the coach) have had enough and brought in a year or 2 of success... but this is also about 'reputation' of said coach when they walk into an establishment. Vs (what I see Goodwin, Hardwick, Clarkson doing) A nurturing, validating value driven environment....which creates the capacity to have players commit, whilst being flexible enough to honour the strengths that have been selected by the recruitment folk. I'd argue Bolton(Carlton) is a very good coach and educator, and that if he had pedigree of a Roos (from a playing perspective).. Teague will get the rewards... Just like McCartney at the Dogs... God sorry @binman - I have gone way of tangent here...(great thoughtful post by the way).

Probably my quote of the year right there! Spurt milk out my nose!

How on earth has our % only jumped 4% man.... we'll be into 3rd for sure if we win them all!

Ahhh, the main man Ricky Jackson!

With a stacked midfield - with the like of Oliver, Petracca and Brayshaw - he'd have to perform Shane Ellen-esque to get the Norm. ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gFYNEAm6Bo

How could it be anything but...it's Shakespearean in its tragedy..and depending where you sit in the theatre , equally amusing.

Thanks @george_on_the_outer - I'm grateful that you watch other games, to see what other innovations are in use. I guess with innovations, though - they don't always come off. From your perspective - as a consequence of setting up like this, what is the cost of setting up like that, and how would teams best counteract it? postscript: I just had a look at the first two quarters and couldn't seem to see what you are talking about... I am but a simple bloke. On the image here - are you talking about the horizontal arrows, or the vertical ones I THINK I GET IT NOW - the horizontal players - so in the first instance it was Dangerfield (left hand side of the screen) and Guthrie (right hand side) - Dangerfield did power through... Yes... the distance from the Geelong players moving in is very noticeable. So... having a leading ruckman Gawn- keeping an eye on which player is moving in and then belting it from where they came from could be a good strategy. pps: sorry for stream of consciousness

Aside from the 'existential' stuff - this would be one of my favourite clips of understanding the link between the .brain and the pain experience. It's amusing and insightful. And I suspect that is more of a factor for Harley. The notion of 'danger' (real or interpreted)....and most importantly meaning Meaning amplifies or reduces the intensity of the pain (or any emotional) experience. In relation to Harley (or any athlete) - the anxiety of reinjury is worse than the experience. And it perpetuates safety behaviours... now this is the brain working really well to protect you from uncomfortable experiences.. AND that's not necessarily useful in the context of sport - as it moves you away from task. Task in the present moment on the football field is everything that we talk about on here...and it's often the unseen stuff... going that 'little bit' harder to extend yourself when you're fatigued... etc etc. Harley will slowly gather more evidence that his body can hold up to the rigours of the game... and that is done quarter by quarter assessing and reflecting on how his body has held up - which means 'in game' he becomes less internal, less vigilance, or less need to monitor how he is tracking calf wise... and of course, if his attention isn't monitoring THAT stuff.. he's fully on task. also, Harley isn't an inside player... and that's ok.. AND what are the non negotiables of playing when you 'don't have the ball. We all (all players) understand it's a contact game, so if contact is going to be there... are you willing to have it... and bit by bit Harley will become a bit more comfortable having the contact.

look forward to him kicking 5.17 against us then.

Nice little read on the game. MELBOURNE V COLLINGWOOD – THE BIG MONGREL QUESTIONS