Engorged Onion

Sure... I can't be bothered arguing it. But walk me through your stats @Fat Tony God, i dont even know Jake, or care for him that much.. I just think he is been unfairly represented. He is Alex Rance's height, 10kg lighter and im pretty sure Alex Rance was not fetted on as a 23year old, and he is on par with Sir Alex I'd be pretty sure in 2013/14 he wasn't the full back...happy to be proven wrong though. I may have just turned in to this bloke...

@Watts the matter For $800+k on the surface I would agree - it feels like he needs to be on the elite players, or he needs to dominate offensively. But perhaps he dominates DEFENSIVELY, it just doesn't look like it, in the way that it used to with man on man. I'm thinking with Scarlett, or even Danny Hughes (yeah, [censored] joke) The stats from the chart before you dismissed are still accurate. The bloke has had knee reco's and he still performs at that level, he is ahead of Rance in some areas. Was Rance an offensive weapon, nope, he drifted (or more precisely accelerated from contest to contest)...we forget that Lever is 6 years younger. 6 [censored] years... that's 100 odd games. I don't know your age, but we used to be in awe of Schwarz of what he could do on the field pre knees and even post knees sometimes and gave due regard to the fact that he had done his knees... it's just the Lever isn't in the sexy part of the ground to be celebrated. He is solid, and he will [censored] up, just like Schwarz dropped marks, Lever will mistime things. Now for $800k, what do I want? I would have paid $800k for Rance and Lever is 6 years younger and on track for that. ps... he points better than anyone I know, aside from Steven May.

Just so I am clear, you asked me a question... I answered it (in the best way that I could) and then you come back with a different statement/argument. You've asked about 'restricting having a big impact on games'. I'd say he and his colleagues have done that pretty well. BUT, now you're stating, it's about his offence. I dont know mate about the backline providing all that much offence.. Maybe that's Hibbered's, Rivers's Jett's, Salem's job, rather than May, OMac, Lever, Smith's job... but Im just guessing. Ps... good job on the bloke for negotiating his pay, so that he and his family are protected, when his knees blow out in Rn 12 and his career is over. His market worth, is what the market is prepared to pay.

Ok @Watts the matter for clarities sake and the fact that we play a zone defence, let's look at the forward line (as named) for all 3 clubs that we have played, as Lever plays in the back line So for Geelong G B Disposals Hawkins 1 3 13 Ratugolea 1 1 5 Dalhaus 14 Other goals all came from midfielders (aside from Parfitt) Any big impacts on the game? Wouldn't have thought so from my optics This is part of a team/zone defence right? You know how that works right? For Carlton it was G B Disposals Betts 1 2 8 McKay 1 10 Cunningham 1 11 *McGovern 1 10 half forward line *Caboult 1 6 half forward line Any big impacts on the game? Wouldn't have thought so from my optics For WCE it was G B Disposals Cripps 12 Kennedy 4 Ryan 3 3 14 *Darling 1 8 half forward line *Redden 9 half forward line Ah Chee 2 1 12 half forward line Now, I'd argue that's pretty good going, aside from Ryan in the WCE game, whom I am sure due to size, speed wouldn't have been a direct match up. His role never has been to dominate individual players but to play as part of a system. The system, as part of the back line is doing fine.

Yeah it's tough one @old dee, and I guess if I was a coach, I'm looking for a few things. Positional roles, and can those vying for a spot - can they supplant the incumbent through what is seen in training? In training, who can execute skills, and roles irrespective of notoriety (and then getting a bank of those in training before pulling the trigger for match selection) *see Bennell, but his is also rehab based. Essentially when the injuries occur, it's the same process, with whatever ceiling you as a coaching department see as an acceptable level. OR at least trade of the positive attributes vs the negative attributes and hope for the best. Interstate? FIIK *If my name was Alex, I would be feeling very unclear as to why I am not in the team. (But we know he can fudge his finishing, despite his workrate)

@Hogan2014, I hear what you are saying, tall forwards (our) tall forwards are ordinary at marking at the moment. Even Bailey Fritsch dropped a few he should have snavelled. Mark of the day should have gone to Kossie, he dropped it too. The tall forward option is not the remedy until they are in form. Snavalling your marks as they present is the remedy..

@Watts the matter From your perspective, what does one have to do to 'shut down a player'? Breakdown the stats that 'said' player can reach, before the threshold is that he has not been shut down. Now, I am genuinely not trying to be a smartarse, I want to know what you look for as an acceptable pass mark. When you give me that, I will seriously go and research it, as I have had a skinful. Also my point is that optics are not metrics. And you my dear poster, do not have all the metrics.(nor do I)

Ahh, well, we've all lived it for 40 years (give or take 20, depending on where you are at). I love the tease this team gives. Just the pure [censored] tease of it all. Nothing more nihilistic than being a Melbourne supporter. As Badly Drawn Boy once sang. "The joy is not the same without the pain".

Kiss. Of. Death.

Thought this was an interesting chart re: Lever. Just wait until he gets 2.3 more spoils/intercepts a match, channel 7 will FAAAAWN over him like Rance.

They probably would @Lord Nev - they know that Goodwin has favourites, what would I know? ? Anyway, context matters.

So when do you give blokes a chance to settle... only when they're 18-21yo's? Context matters Sorry but I cant find a way not to do this with sarcasm... Think about this...no seriously, think about this. What do players learn, if they are dropped after a [censored] match? They learn never to [censored] up of course..never ever [censored] up, just don't do it, don't have a bad game, don't make individual errors, because your career (employment) is on the line. And we all intuitively understand, that that is not the reality of sport. BUT, what do humans do all the [censored] time. They make errors. Now your threshold as a viewer of this great team of ours, is clearly less, due to the context of the the W/L ratio. But not the FD... there must be something that they know, that you don't. What could it be? What you don't do, is punish someone who makes errors, you don't just drop them...because what do they 'actually learn'? They learn, it's never appropriate to make mistakes, ever, never ever. Thus, how do they play? They play safe, so so so [censored] safe, that they never take risks... just look at old mate Billy Stretch. They'll stop, they'll prop, they'll slow the game down, just so they feel safe enough to execute a 16m pass and not [censored] it up. Oh... and go against the team plan...taking the game on etc etc. All clubs are willing to give personnel another chance due to circumstance, need etc (some would call it favourtism, or lack of integrity I suppose)

@La Dee-vina Comedia, perhaps you could attend the next Zoom meeting, or presser and ask these questions

Not when it is a zone (which every single team plays)

It's an interesting one I am still holding out hope for Goodwin (yeah, can me for it) So @The Chazz (I ask you as, I think you've got a good feel for this) , what is it that Goodwin and the staff want as a whole for the team, what are they trying to execute as the game plan? They're willing to support Smith's athleticism and pace (but perhaps dismiss his limited execution skills, whilst he is learning)...yet with Bennell (and I know its about graded exposure to game time to protect the calf) there is a player with a range of great skills and can execute really consistently, but he is required to work on things? Signed... One confused, trying to make sense, Demonlander.

Hilariously so. Why people can't be pleased for the individual and not see it as an indictment on the personnel at the club who made the decision at the time, blows my mind. But of course they're the same folk that gloat about the difference between obtaining Petracca over McCartin.

First thought is, will we see Weideman again? Second is, (and I don't recall the other team selections where he was positioned vs where he lined up) with Trac at Full forward, resting in the midfield, could be quite interesting.

mmm, alcohol alone...mmm

100% @Lord Nev

magnificent work @DeeSpencer

RJAY, what does that pressure look like? Angry stern looks from the board? A conversation about 'you're under pressure mate?' You don't think they all fire trucking know it? Sorry @rjay its not about you per se (the next bit) The hilarious thing about these ' he's under pressure' comments is the fact that you walk into a job knowing that if you don't perform you're out. You're under pressure from day dot.. it never just appears. The nuance is looking at the bigger picture than W/L/D, and checking your own urgency (as a member of the board/fd or other) with all available data. Now the issue is supporters don't have all the available data. @layzie, this is why I believe they're on the right track We typically want linear improvement. If it doesnt happen, then it's received as a problem. I posted on another thread about 2 hours ago, about 2019 being a write off from injury/preseason perspective) and the fact that there was never any expectation because of that factor to be able to perform optimally. Why supporters expect optimal performance in that context doesn't surprise me, because they don't have data. The other thing as to why Goodwin wont be under pressure due merely to losses (and not blow outs, just losses) is beacause of the demographic of the athletes at the club, particularly the midfield. 2019 was a clusterfork due to injury 2020 is a clusterfork due to Covid and the fact that we have so so so so so so so many players who have not played together (people forget this is so incredibly important...just look at Richmond, Collingwood and WCE) But we lump it altogether and don't pick apart the nuance. Goodwin happens to be at the helm during some unprecedented times (2019 due to injury/rehab) 2020 due to covid with really really young humans who have played fire truck all together. I get that pleases very few of you... because of the yearning, the absolute yearning to see success and a constant upward trajectory. Anyway... that's why ive contributed some coin.

not bad for a jockey.

I'd concur @KLV

This is why I come to this site. Thanks @spalding...ps one of my middle names is Earl

Luckily I am getting tanked before the in laws and kids come over for tea. How unwatchable if football these days...but I still can't avert my eyes. By the way... still no goalless quarters...