Vogon Poetry

Thanks for the report Steve but this statement is a bit off the mark. I, like I assume most, are commenting on the situation. I've got nothing again the player but in view the situation as one that has to be managed by the club. Obviously we don't know all the facts (like the Oliver case) but we can discuss it surely. I don't give a flying toss that H is different, I just want him to be a productive player for the club. If he isn't I'll consider the options.

Support doesn't necessarily mean keeping him on the list. I'm on record as being doubtful that concussion is the only issue here but either way surely he's better off not playing.

If it's career ending and in the final year of their contract (but it's a while since I looked at it and it may have changed). H has a performance based 3rd year contract. The club will be all over it as they've faced similar situations before. If he's not right after 5 months how can he go on?

You don't like Barrett?

Or perhaps he's holding out for a better negotiated settlement from the club. Who knows, but if he's still suffering from concussion this long after the event he shouldn't play anyway.

Or get a good young kid like Jake Barrett?

I think your hanging a guy without hearing the evidence. But my main point though was that many players have a drink and are elite. Please don't interpret my comments as being in any way supportive of drink driving. I'm critical of making judgements without the facts.

I think half the fun of footy is being optimistic but again if you're a little jaded I can understand your approach even if it is a little defeatist. I've been chatting to ProDee who pointed out some really interesting things. He said Jayden Hunt in 2015 played 7 games for the Casey seniors and his highest stats were 11 (twice). Smith got 11 disposals or more in 10 of his 13 games. He also observed that Smith got 20 possessions three time last year (one was the PF) so by comparison he's well ahead of Hunt's 2015 and the PF was not an aberration but a continuation of his development. He went on to point out that Dreamteam stats are a silly way to judge a defender. They ignore a players ability to stop his forward and even excellent defenders like Tom McDonald only average 68 points a game. Anyway I'm excited about him and think he will be a very good player. I suggest you get on board.

Ablett senior, Swan, Hodge, Heath Shaw, Steve Johnson and I'm sure many others we don't know about have hardly been angles but have become elite AFL players. And while I support your "don't drink and drive" message I think you're making a bit of an issue out of a situation where we don't know many of the facts.

Sorry, thought by "one out of the box" you meant that his performance was markedly better in the PF than any he'd shown during the season but as you say above his stats indicate that he was statistically as good against Coburg and good against Sandringham. I saw both those games live as well as the Prelim and the games were similar in standard although unlike you I prefer to trust my eye rather than rely on stats. By your measure a number of our delisted players would have been regulars in the seniors. Anyway it's as much the attributes he shows as possessions and the stats don't show these. And I doubt he'd be considered close to senior selection if his form was much below what he showed in the PF. You're welcome to "not get too carried away". I like to back my judgement and I'll get as excited as I like about Joel as I know many in the FD are. As for others, they can suit themselves.

I'm not so sure that it was one out of the box. I saw him early in the season and was very impressed with his attributes but he struggled to find the ball. At the end of the season he was getting involved much more and still doing good things. His preliminary final was good but not a standout compared to some of his later games after he recovered from his groin injury in the middle of the season. I've heard from some sources inside the club he was seriously considered for a debut in the last two rounds of the AFL season so I think your estimation of him is off target. This kid has it all IMO. He has pace, he's got good hands, he attacks the ball very hard, he's agile, has a really good leap that allows him to play taller than he is and is a natural looking kick. He is learning to find the ball and he is learning where to kick it and how to make good decisions. Once he's got these things bedded down he will make an impact at AFL level. One thing I don't know about is his tank. To those that have been to training this year, how is he going in the running? Keeping up or struggling? I think it's safe to be very bullish about this kid. Oh, and BBP, I agree with you that Howe gets a terrible rap here. He's a very serviceable back that provides the ability to spoil and is a good kick. I'm not sure what our exact trade was for Howe as it seemed to be mixed up with Toump and Kennedy and a few picks but so far I think Collingwood would be very pleased with the outcome. Having said that he plays a position we have ample resources for and I don't think we are suffering not having him. But credit where credit is due, he's a very good footballer and the Pies got a good deal.

Bernie played the full season and there is no query about him not being best 22. No problems with him taking his full break. Lumumba played very little last year and didn't play when cleared by the medico's. He's not currently best 22 IMO. Big difference. H may come back and prove me wrong. It would be good if he did but on the things I'm seeing I'm sceptical. And after such a serious concussion with no serious incident in either game that I saw his future must be clouded as even a small hit it seems could be a problem for him. I hope he's not putting money ahead of his health. For the record I saw both games where he was supposed to have got the "hit". I missed them both. I saw both Brayshaws and they were awful. Brayshaw played some good footy at the end of the year. H didn't.

Yeh, that's my point.

I don't think you can dismiss his non appearance at training that easily Stu, he would have had a very honest end of season interview with Goody who wasn't there when Roosey did the deal to bring him in (from a Collingwood who were very pleased to see him go) and won't feel at all obligated to him. Goody has seen Harry play two very unproductive seasons for us and recognizes he isn't one for the contested ball. My suspicion (based on what public information is available) is he's lost his passion for the game and this year is superannuation. He's nowhere near "best 22" for me, probably outside top 30 and I reckon if he was really committed to the cause he'd be down there making it plain to all that he's serious about getting his spot back.

I'm a big fan of Goody, I've heard fantastic things about him from players, FD personnel and others who know him. Still haven't gotten to the bottom of "first in line for the good stuff" but to be honest I couldn't care less. Although for those moral crusaders on the Essendon and Whitfield threads it must be very uncomfortable with Goody, Hibby and Melksy all bought in by Roosey and Mahoneyey. Kid will be a gun coach.

Yeh, wow, what a situation. A person challenges for a Board position. Hold the presses, this is one hell of a story. Unlike us when the wheels fell off in 2008 and Stynes got rid of the whole Board. Madness at Tigerland, that's for sure. Still trying to catch my breath.

What period of time does it cover?

Thanks Saty, nice to see you being recognized for your fine work along with Wrecker and WW.

There's always next year.

I'm not a fan but if H does make it back into a near full strength team it will be a good thing as he'll be playing better than some very good players. Very strange situation. Nobody sees him hit in the head in the two games he's supposed to be concussed, he declines to play when cleared fit by the medical staff last year when we are pushing for finals in both teams and now having missed a the majority of 2016 and with his position in question he declines to come back to training when other senior players do. Doubt that will impress Goodwin. I'm not sure what the rules are now about final year injuries and payouts but I'd be wary if I was the match committee. Hope Mahoney is all over it. To me it smells. It doesn't look like a guy dedicated to the cause.

Not sure that's right Ron. Mahoney made the point that the recruitment of McKenna was in part because he was much better than a pick in the 80's. I think Wagner has been promoted because the footy department are happy to have him on the list for two more years and by freeing a rookie spot we only have to commit to someone for one year instead of two. With a very late pick that makes sense.

I'm pleased you've offered a different view. Without disclosing my sources I will say they consisted of Directors of the Club, FD personnel with whom I worked and players I'd known for a number of years and still see. There were a number of similar accounts. If you choose to believe someone who most believe lied to the club about his intentions for the best part of a year sobeit. Your comments that "he stated that he had not been involved in any negotiations with Melbourne or anyone else" were clearly wrong. If you think he would have confided in you at the dinner I think you're being a little naïve. You know the role I played at the club and I'm surprised you wanted clarification of my source and expected me to disclose them. I hope in the quotation above you're not suggesting I'm lying.

Clearly not.

Does anyone know when the full draw will be released?

It's actually not the Presidents role. I imagine Bartlett didn't play a role in Jesse's contract extension but left it to list management and the footy department. There is ample discussion on the role of a Board in earlier DL threads and for reference just compare how the club is run now compared to prior Boards. BTW do you think Buddy, Chip and Paddy were honest about their intentions? I don't really want to go here and I'm surprised Jack asked the question days after my post and if he did want to know the answer why he didn't PM me.