warren dean

Spot on, and be grateful we get them again later in the year!!

You put too much store in this silly award. Jack's in good company not getting a nomination - Dane Swan, Gary Ablett Jnr, Jono Brown and Chip Frawley all didn't make the nominee list. Three of them are absolute superstars and Chip is getting closer all the time. Some absolute gumbies have been nominated - anyone for Brent Hartigan??? There is nothing wrong with his work rate. If he doesn't make it, it won't be because he doesn't work hard enough.

Both he and Trengove signed on for 3 years after they were drafted.

Beaten 75 to 35 on the forward 50 entries really tells the tale. Our forwards didn't get enough opportunity and our defenders saw far too much of the ball. Midfield was deplorable - Jones and Moloney cannot play in the same side. Leadership group is looking shaky too. Of the onfield leaders only Rivers fulfilled the role description tonight.

What I still struggle with is the AFL who have this major thing about white clash strips allowed Collingwood to create a number of clashes by changing their guernsey from their traditional white back/black numbers to a predominantly black guernsey around 2001. Up until that time the only conceivable clash was with Nth Melbourne on black and white TV. Now they clash with basically any team with a predominantly black jumper. Collingwood just need to wear their traditional guernsey (the one which is now their clash jumper) at all games except when they play North (then they can wear the dark one they wore yesterday)and maybe Geelong then they will not be involved in any clashes of strip.

My 9 year old son is mental about the Demons and grabbed out some old copies of the 1987 finals series while he was recovering from illness recently. First thing he said to me, after "Geez, we used to be really good, Dad!" was "How good was that number 27?" He was a brilliant footballer and if you haven't seen the 1987 finals ever, or at least not for a while, then have a look. It'll remind you just how sensational he was. And don't forget that was after recovering from his first knee reco and before his second in 1990. All the best, Sean!!

Went today and agree wholeheartedly with Pinkster's report. Thought Jetta was great, Maric useful and Tapscott looked very promising. Not a lot of joy there today though!

Last night he was one of many who was poor. In the overall scheme of things, I can't see him commanding a regular place going forward. He has been a solid servant and many have already pointed out his passion etc, but that doesn't compensate for his lack of footy smarts/pace. His delivery of the ball into the forward line is atrocious and if he is still in our best 22 this time next year then we are in trouble. It'll mean blokes like Gysberts, Blease, Tapscott have not come on (or that Scully has gone to GWS!!) I struggle to find room for both Moloney and Jones in the one side and I think Jones offers more at this stage.

I don't think he's anymore negative than Dwayne Russell or Brian Taylor and a lot of what he says makes sense.He is certainly far more constructive than the other 2. Mind you, I did have his name and number on my duffle coat until the end of 1985!!

Really impressed with Watts' composure and work rate tonight. Multiple leads many times over and displayed really good awareness. His game(s) tonight reminded me very much of Terry Daniher in the '80's. Always on the move, good on the ground and at a lot of contests. I think this might well be Jack's go long term and if he turns out to be vaguely as good as Daniher then we will have done very well.

There is a club poster up in the Centro shopping centre in Cranbourne stating Casey Fields on the 4th of Feb. Family Day activities commence 4.30 and the intraclub at 6 pm. My kids actually appear on the poster with Ronald Deeman (the photo was taken at last years family day). I didn't actually know they were in it until I saw it today, so there you go!

Other "personalities" from the political arena on the Demons bandwagon are Union heavy Greg Sword and former Deputy Premier John Thwaites.

Talking with a few of the younger guys last night and they say Davey is the man. They feel he is the experienced player most amongst them and that he represents the club well with all the "window dressing" (my words not theirs) which is so much a part of club leadership now. They also reckon Bailey loves him. Suppose it depends how much weight the players vote has.

Re - read the thread. The reason there was no clash in 1966 is because Collingwoods guernsey is now predominantly black. In 1966 it was predominantly white. Collingwood's jumper, despite what Eddie says is completely opposite to its "traditional" guernsey.

This link proves that Collingwood and the AFL have in fact created the clash. It's a good read. http://www.sainters.com/stripclash/

This is all because about 10 years ago Collingwood were allowed to change their guernsey to a reverse of their traditional strip. Up until then they had a predominantly white guernsey with black numbers and three black stripes down the front and back (the same as their current clash strip). For some reason they were allowed a predominantly black guernsey with white numbers and this has created more of a clash. Don't fall for the line about this being the Pies traditional jumper. Every previous premiership they have won was in fact won in a guernsey the exact opposite in design to their current one. Their away stripis in fact their traditional jumper. This would be the same one they wore against the Saints in the game where Reiwoldt did his hammy. They may not have changed their colours but they have certainly changed their guernsey. It's the same as us having a red jumper with a navy blue yoke!!

Great article on page 78 of todays Herald-Sun by Mark Stevens . "Black Hole Swallows Dee." Sorry, can't find the link. Basically writes about how stiff Jordie is and how the rising star system is flawed!!

For those who pay attention to this silly award - what do Jonathon Brown, Dane Swan, Gary Ablett Jnr, Jack Watts and Jordie McKenzie have in common? That's right, they never got a rising star nomination. But Brent Hartigan did!!

6. Frawley - another great game - surely All-Australian 5. Jurrah 4. Green 3. Junior 2. Jamar 1. Dunn

That's my point. As an exercise in identifying the next stars of the game ("rising star") it is somewhat dubious I'd say. I know I'd have Brown ahead of all others on that list, just in front of Pav.

I was surprised to learn the other day that Jonathon Brown never even received a nomination for the rising star. Says a fair bit about this award I reckon. For interests sake here is the list of nominees from the year he could have been nominated: 2000 AFL Rising Star Nominations Round Player 1 Paul Hasleby Dockers 2 David Spriggs Cats 3 Damien Adkins Magpies 4 Leigh Brown Dockers 5 Adam Ramanauskas Bombers 6 Josh Fraser Magpies 7 Adam Lange Kangaroos 8 Cameron Bruce Demons 9 Jude Bolton Swans 10 Chad Cornes Power 11 Glen Bowyer Hawks 12 Ian Perrie Crows 13 Beau McDonald Lions 14 Andrew Embley Eagles 15 Matthew Whelan Demons 16 Brett Moyle Saints 17 Matthew Pavlich Dockers 18 Matthew Scarlett Cats 19 Brad Green Demons 20 Ryan Houlihan Blues 21 Chad Fletcher Eagles 22 Josh Carr Power Makes you wonder about the thing doesn't it!

According to the Footy Record interview with him last week (after his nom), Rockliff trained with the Demons and was guaranteed a spot on the rookie list if he made it that far. Unfortunately for us the Lions beat us to the punch in the preseason draft.

Spot on DJ 16.

I'm not about excuses here Hannabal, just perspective. I'll let you pull up the figures for the first 9 games of each of the aforementioned and bear in mind that all but Carey, Lockett and Reiwoldt were starting their careers in strong teams. I am agreeing with you that he hasn't shown as much as we all would have liked or hoped for but I'm prepared to wait until he's 21 before passing judgement - that's 2012. This might also be an age versus experience debate as well. By 21 most of these guys were well over 50 games. If Watts plays every game between now and the start of 2012 he'll be around 40 games. Hopefully within those 40 he'll have a few rippers.

Don't know about Rich, mainly on a perceived level of improvement scale, but certainly agree on Hurley and NicNat. Probably unfair to include Kernahan in those listed above as he didn't move to Carlton until he was 22 and was already established playing against men in the SANFL. Dunstall was also a bit older as well, and didn't do heaps in 1985.Franklin was reasonable in his first year and then blossomed around 2007. John Longmire was more highly regarded than Carey early on (98 goals when he was 19). Lockett started in 1983 won the Brownlow at 21 and kicked his first ton in the same season (1987). Stewie Loewe was a handy chop out for him early on too. Brereton started in late 1982 (a couple of finals - one was great the other much less so) and was a handy player in 1983/84 before really blossoming in 1985 (again at 21). Riewoldt had a really good second year. Carey debuted in 1989 and was a self-confessed slow starter in his recent book. He really came to note in 1992. Lloyd started at 16/17 in 1995 and by 1996 was established but inconsistent. Watts still has time. What he doesn't have is another big body to help ease him in. Kernahan had Maclure in 1986. Brereton had Moncrieff, Matthews and Peter Knights. Lloyd had Salmon and later on Lucas. Carey and Longmire worked well together and had guys like Donald McDonald providing protection. There are no guarantees on Watts becoming a star, but he also has no opportunity to slip under the radar as some of those others had early in their careers. Like you I'm still hopeful on Watts and I still believe he can get there. We just need to be a bit more patient.