mfcrox

I don't know if this has been brought up... but does it cost the same for the club to play at the MCG if it blocks off the top-2 tiers of the grand stands (excluding MCC). Surely it would cost less because less staff would have to be hired for the day.

Perhaps you should read what I said also... I said we would be targeting the next generation if we played at Casey, but I am not sure we would be around long enough for the idea to take off. I agree that in essence the next generation of Casey residents are a potential goldmine for support, however ask yourself: Why are we even considering a move to 'local' grounds? The answer is because we are in it up to our necks at the minute. We may not be around long enough for the next generation to support us. We need a quick fix for a change... we need to attract support, we need a massive marketing drive to keep our heads above the water. We need to get our membership up to 30,000-35,000 in the next two seasons. Then once we become financially stable, by all means try a Casey experiment. I honestly don't think that moving our games out to Casey is a viable option in the near future, because no-one will go. The reason I mentioned Brunswick Street Oval is because we need an inner suburbs ground that is easily accessible so as most supporters will be able to attend and we can make even more profit. Think of it like this (be it only a simplistic analysis)... we play some matches at Brunswick Street Oval (or Optus Oval or whatever suburban ground) at a cost of $100,000 per game. We then get 15,000-25,000 to these games because it is easily accessible. At the end we may make $100,000 profit or whatever due to the attendance. Now, alternatively we play at Casey Fields at a cost of $100,000 per game. We only get 10,000 in attendance because it is so far out of the majority of supporters way. Which makes more profit for the club? An attendance of 15,000-25,000, or an attendance of 10,000? We need to get our head above water before we take risks like playing in the middle of no-where. Once we are financially stable, then we can experiment.

One thing people talk about is the growth in the East/South-East area... and this is why we should jump at the opportunity, because it will be a way to attract new members. However, do people realize that the people providing the growth to these new areas most likely barrack for teams already. Yeah, people do have children... and they are who we should be targeting for support, but who is to say we will last long enough for these children to attend our games. I am sure a supporter of Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, etc. from the East/South-East area is going to venture down and watch Melbourne do battle against Fremantle. Give me a break!!! The only people we are going to attract to watch Melbourne play Fremantle is Melbourne supporters... and I doubt that many will be willing to venture all the way out to bloody whoop-whoop Casey, when it was too much of a challenge getting them to attend at another central ground like Optus Oval. I would rather we try our luck at Brunswick Street oval or something... try and lure so old Fitzroy people back to football. Atleast, that ground is localized and has a tram-line directly outside the ground. If not, go for Punt Rd footy ground.

Yeah, ditto... I'm on board aswell. How often will the club turn 150??? It's once in a lifetime... not missing out on it

Agreed... but I'd rather a KPP that is 25 or under. Franklin, Roughead, Hawkins, Gumbleton. Even Thorp and Dowler from Hawthorn, both were first round draft picks... and are said to be future stars. Just got to wonder how they are going to fit into the Hawks forward line... could be an opportunity for us to pounce.

Did you not read my other comment: 'If the rumours about Green are true (hopefully they are not)... trade him and our 2nd round pick to Carlton for their 1st rounder. Also, we don't have to trade our top youngsters to get good picks either... but we can upgrade our picks by adding some candy to the deals. Eg. Pick #17 & Bell (just a random name) to Port Adelaide for pick #10. When that is all said and done (assuming we finish last with a priority pick), this is the outcome: We now have picks #1, #3-7 (Carlton's 1st rounder), #10. We lost Green and Bell and pick #18... not a bad base to start some serious rebuilding from.' Trading isn't necessarily offering one thing and getting another in return. I know there aren't many players on our list worth top-15 picks alone... however, if you add other picks to those deals, you can get these better picks Do you think we will win a premiership before 2011-2012? I don't... so even though it would hurt the club short term, maybe we should think of trading players who are 26 or above, and may have some worth on the trade table... because these players will be around 30 in 3-4yrs time. Blokes like Green, Bruce, Wheatley, Whelan, Carroll would hold some value for clubs who are on the verge of a top-4 spot, and could get them that one step further. If you add a pick in the 20s to any one of those players, you would be looking at a top-15 pick in return.

Yeah, good point... but we have to try something though. For example: If the rumours about Green are true (hopefully they are not)... trade him and our 2nd round pick to Carlton for their 1st rounder. Also, we don't have to trade our top youngsters to get good picks either... but we can upgrade our picks by adding some candy to the deals. Eg. Pick #17 & Bell (just a random name) to Port Adelaide for pick #10. When that is all said and done (assuming we finish last with a priority pick), this is the outcome: We now have picks #1, #3-7 (Carlton's 1st rounder), #10. We lost Green and Bell and pick #18... not a bad base to start some serious rebuilding from. I wouldn't like to see any of our players go, and I am just throwing up ideas... but sometimes you have to go through some pain, to get some gain. As I have said before, we have a good core of youngsters to build around for the future... but we still have some holes to fill before we can consider ourselves a contender. I am only young (early 20s)... but I want to see a bloody premiership in the near future!!!

Trade for 3-4 top 15picks... ala. Hawthorn did in 2004 & 2005. Seriously rebuild, no more [censored]-footing around. A 'rebuild' is not trading for 1 extra top-15 pick, it is completely starting over with the future in mind. Chances are we are going to be losing a fair amount of our core players of the past 10yrs (Neitz, Yze, White, McDonald) in the next 2-seasons, so we have to plan ahead long term... not look for little over-26ers to temporarily plaster over the cracks that they will all leave with their departures. I mentioned it in one of the threads I started up... we have a good core group of 20-25yr olds who will peaking around 2010-2011... lets build around them.

I think it is time we phase White out of ruck duties... bring Johnson in, and keep Jamar in. Play White as a CHB or a Goodes type of tall ruck-rover. Try something different for a change

It is pretty obvious that Hawthorn are going to be a massive force in the next 5+ seasons, yet less than 5 seasons ago, they were in our boat. Why not try to implement some of their idea’s to help us rebuild into a force. We need to follow a similar model to what Hawthorn did during 2004-05-06… they didn’t finish last in any of those seasons, but traded for 1st round draft-picks. 2008 is ‘our’ 2004, so in theory we should start afresh and trade for as many first round picks as we can get. Hawthorn had 5 picks in the first 26 of the 2004 National Draft (three top-10). 2009 should be ‘our’ 2005… 5 picks in the first 22 of the draft (three in the top-14). Below are positions that I believe are almost set for the next decade… there are a few holes that need to be filled obviously, but our midfield is in pretty good shape… which is a really good base to work from (as shown by power sides like Brisbane 2001-2004, West Coast 2005-2007, Geelong 2007-Present). FB: ???????? Frawley (22) ???????? CHB: Petterd (22) Rivers (25) ???????? C: Morton (20) Jones (22) Davey (27) CHF: Miller (27) Bate (23) ???????? FF: ???????? ???????? Wonaeamirri (22) R: ???????? McLean (24) Sylvia (25) INTERCHANGE/EMERGENCY/UN-TRIED/DELISTED/TRADED/RETIRED: Neitz (35) McDonald (34) Yze (33) White(33) Holland (33) Robertson (32) Whelan (31) Bruce (31) Carroll (30) Green (29) Wheatley (29) Jamar (27) Miller (27) Warnock (26) Moloney (26) P. Johnson (26) Bell (25) C. Johnson (24) Martin (24) Meesen (24) Buckley (23) Newton (23) Bode (23) Dunn (23) Bartram (23) Valenti (23) Garland (22) Grimes (21) Zomer (21) Cheney (21) Weetra (21) Spencer (21) Maric (20) McNamara (20) * Ages at January 1, 2011 (I apologize if any errors are there) Looking at the ‘Hawthorn model’, they targeted key position players in the majority of those drafts picks… and we have to do the same. I hope the likes of Newton, Martin, Dunn, etc. can fill some of those holes… but it is about time we can poach stars who can blow games open (easier said than done… but have some mongrel, offer an up-and-coming key position star some big cash to jump ship [i know of one player with initials L.F who followed the us as a kid… or even some of his team-mates, they have a plethora of young key position players]). A good start to solve our 2010-11 ruck woes would be to draft Naitanui and hopefully get Warnock over from Fremantle in this P.S.D. With the new teams entering the competition, that will also be our opportunity to get some early picks by trading some of our established players and so forth. We must not trade for players over 26 this year… they will be past their peak when we are ready to charge. Forget the frustration of this season, and look forward… our core group of under-25s is not too shabby at all. I am willing to go through a few seasons of agony if it is going to lead to 4-5seasons as a genuine contender in 3-4yrs time.

It has been said many a time before... but that is what is wrong with the current priority pick/draft system. I agree with all that has been said above, but it is a sad state of affairs when supporters are barracking for a loss as Carltank supporters were, and it is also a sad state of affairs when supporters are regretting a win or two they may have had the season prior as we are here. The current system is a joke... I can not think of another sport in the world that employs such a system. All other major sports worldwide have lottery drafts or relegation zones, which takes the tanking issue out of the equation.

Fair enough, I respect your opinion... I just think it stinks that supporters like Y_M constantly show a LACK OF support for players that play for our club. It is easy to sit back in the comfort (or lack of) of the seats at our stadiums and comment on how 'soft'/'weak'/'slow'/'crap' certain players are.

I have been a keen reader of this site for ages before actually making a post... one thing is pretty clear though: You talk absolute dribble mate. LoL. Were you the guy who was hanging over the fence bagging our players as they went down the race against the Dogs??? You continually bag blokes like Bruce, Miller, Jamar, C. Johnson, Warnock and Garland… what gives you the right to do so? You’re a “paid up member”… as am I, and most of the other people who post on here. If you want to criticize, then chuck on a jumper and run out there and see how you go. It is fair enough to criticize when they don’t put effort in, but most of the blokes you have mentioned can’t be accused of that… they put in 110% each time they wear the red and blue.

Good topic Vanlo. Like the idea, and agree with you on most of what you had to say. Sort of disagree about Chris Johnson and Jace Bode though. I would love for Johnson to cement a spot in the team, because the 'best' we have seen from him would be a good addition to the side... I just don't think he will be able to play at his top level consistently enough though (hopefully he can prove me wrong). Bode is Okay in my opinion, he is never going to be an out-and-out superstar... but his skill has looked Okay, and he does have genuine pace, which is something our midfield lacks at the minute. Ok, my turn now to do some assessments Brad Miller: I have time for this bloke... as long as we play him forward!!! Ideally he shouldn't be playing CHF, because I don't think he is suited to the 'hardest position on the ground'. I would rather him on a flank/wing... because he has a pretty good tank and could charge up and down the ground between forward pocket and CHB and create a target for that next kick out of the defensive 50. He showed signs of some mongrel last week aswell, and that is another positive about him. Nathan Carroll: As above for Miller... is not playing in his ideal position in my opinion, but it is due to having no-one else ready. Ideally he would be taking the 3rd forward, not the 1st. I will put my neck on the line and say he has been our best player this season so far. If we could have this bloke playing on the 3rd best forward, we would be in good shape up back I think... because he is better than we give him credit for. Cameron Bruce: This bloke gets hammered a fair bit on here... but is it because we set the 'pass-mark' too high??? On his best day, he is probably top-30 in the competition... on his worst day, he is still an above-average AFL player. I'll admit, I've let fly with a few expletives whilst watching this bloke play... one minute he can kick an absolute mongrel off the side of his boot, but 5mins later he'll pop up and kick 2-goals in quick succession. Something interesting I thought I'd throw in: This bloke has averaged 21.35 disposals, 3.50 tackles, and 0.91 goals per game in seasons 2005-06-07. Now look at the stats of Chri$ Judd for the same period: 23.75 disposals, 3.80 tackles, and 0.77 goals per game. Doesn't scrub up too bad does he when you look at that. A much needed player in the red and blue in my opinion. Brad Green: Nearly 10yrs into his career, and we still do not know what position he is suited to. Yeah, he is versatile... and could fill a forward pocket as he did early in his career, but personally I don't think he would get more than 1-2 goals a game from that spot (and I would deem that a waste for a bloke like him). Personally, I would like to see him running off half back or along a wing... he has played this role a few times in recent years, and I thought he did well on each of those occasions. Another needed player in the red and blue in my opinion. Matthew Bate: Still a young bloke... and I rate him highly. Has glue-hands, a booming kick on the run, and decent size about him. Where do you play a bloke like that? Played his junior football in a key position I think, but got moved into the middle in the Under 18s and ended up winning the Morrish Medal. I don't think he is quick enough to play a fast leading forward type of role, but I don't think he is an AFL standard midfielder either (yet). I'd be willing to try him at CHF when he is fit this season, but that is just because we are lacking a genuine CHF right now... and he is the sort of bloke who should be in the side. Brent Moloney: At his best, he is an important cog in our midfield... he is hard and can get the ball. Hopefully he can get back to his pre-O.P form, but I just have doubts that he will. One criticism I have is his kicking into forward 50... yeah, it is a positive when he carries the ball 20metres and kicks it 55, but for every decent kick that hits our blokes on the chest... I reckon there are 2-3 that miss the target, which has the potential to hurt us on the rebound. Aaron Davey: We need him to get his mojo back. Where are the 20metre chases and tackles??? I dunno if he has lost confidence in himself since tearing his hamstrings, but he is not the Aaron Davey of 2-seasons ago. I don't see him as a full time midfielder, more of a Hird-type (50% forward - 50% midfield). I reckon he is a 'confidence' player, so hopefully he can have a few ripper weeks soon and return to the player he was pre-2007. Those are my ratings/assessments on some of the blokes who are in our best-22 (well my best 22 anyway). All of the above above-average AFL players... and players that could be part of a premiership winning side. I get tired of hearing "we won't win a premiership with _______ in our team"... the first two blokes on my list are on the receiving end of that the most I reckon. Those blokes aren't duds... they may just be out of position, or simply trying gallantly to fill in a position they aren't suited to because we don't have the personal at present to fill it. That is my opinion anyway... welcome any feedback if people wanna leave it (good or bad. LoL).

A tad harsh mate... all the blokes you have listed are not mediocre (it is too early to class them as anything). Give them some more time... they are all in there early-20s. I'll admit, Sylvia is not looking the goods... but there is still 19-rounds left this season, and who is to say he won't come out firing from Round 4-onwards. McLean has showed what he is capable of, we just need him to do it more consistently... and that will come with experience Pettard... how you classed him as 'mediocre' has me baffled. He is one of the shining lights of our younger group in my opinion. Dunn and Garland... these two blokes are key position-sized players, and they obviously take time to develop. Dunn has shown some things that have impressed me, and Garland is as raw a player as I have seen in the red and blue. BE PATIENT... I know 43yrs is a bloody long drought, but we can't expect to build a premiership team overnight.

Yeah, I think it is a good thing... we have to look at replacing White eventually, and giving the 2nd ruckman plenty of game-time is a good move. I also noticed that Bailey has thrown the mid-fielders up forward to give them a rest from the middle occasionally. I noticed it against the Doggies with McLean and Jones having at least one spell each in a forward pocket, and then I am pretty sure that Jones had a spell on the forward line against the Geelong also. It can't hurt getting more game-time into young legs... all about development.

Agreed 100%... I thought he played okay. Went quiet in the 2nd half, but 1st half was really good... almost as if he had been given an ultimatum to show something or get dropped. Looked like he was working hard up the ground, and also showed some aggression again. At one stage it looked like he was running off the square and trying to take some blokes out (I think he laid a decent sheppard on Ablett at one point). I liked what I saw... so I hope that they persist with him up there

Morton is going to be the genuine superstar we have been wanting for years. I don't wanna 'mozz' the kid, but what he has shown so far has me so pumped up. The composure and skill he shows for a bloke in his first few games is seriously incredible. Once he gets some more games under his belt, and bulks up a tad... he is going to be an A-grade superstar. Aussie looked good today as well... good skill, and good defensive pressure. Showed Davey a thing or two today I reckon... and Davey responded in the 2nd half with some good tackling, which was also a good sign. McLean was really good also, has to learn how to shake a tag though... but 1st half was again a good sign. Awesome to see Rivers back in the side, he and Carroll worked well together I thought. Defense looks a hell of a lot better with Rivers back there. I still reckon that we need to draft a monster full-back though in the near future... Carroll looked really small against Hawkins today. Having Rivers up back also allowed Miller to go forward, and although I may cop some stick for saying this, I thought he looked Okay up there today. Hurts me to say it, but Sylvia didn't impress me one bit today... doesn't look interested at all. Shame. Signs are okay of the coming weeks, I think we have drawn the top-3 sides in the first 3-rounds... so maybe we aren't as bad as the ladder would suggest. If we play with the intensity that we did today, I think we could do okay in the coming weeks

I dunno if I was watching a different game today... but I thought Sylvia was Okay. His disposal was better than most, and he tackled hard which was something we missed against the Hawks. This is his first game this season, and he has already been written off by a fair lot of you. This is the same bloke who has just had his first full pre-season, and was amongst the best in every game of the N.A.B Cup/Practice matches. It is a little hard to be a superstar when the rest of the side did nothing as well.

Here is my opinion... there is no point dwelling on the past. Yeah, Scott Thompson would of been a handy player against the Hawks and Dogs, but he isn't with us because of his own reasons... not the fault of a previous administration as you put it. How about we look forward into the future and work with what we have. Lets mold one of our youngsters into the 'next' Scott Thompson, or the next 'Michael Voss'... or how about we even let them build there own reputations and not set limitations as to who or what they can become. That is pretty similar to the words of our own coach, and if that is the philosophy he has on developing his players... then I will back him 110%, and so should everyone else on here

Never posted on here before (just bigfooty... apologies if that is a banned word on here)... but I have been a massive reader of this website for well over a year now though. Thanks mate

How about we blame the players... I was at the game and it was a disgraceful effort. Here is a few of the issues I noticed: - our players after half-time did not put any defensive pressure on when the Bulldogs were running the ball our of our forward line or through the middle... prior to half-time, we were okay in this area. - our zone set-up for us kicking out has merit, because it works for other clubs... but it will not work unless people burst free from this zone, and sprint into open space that was created. There is no point having all this open space on the flanks if the players are just going to jog half-pace into it. SPRINT INTO IT... if you get a 5metre break on your opponent, the bloke kicking out should be able to hit you lace out... if not, then the wrong person is kicking out! - on the two or three occasions we ran the ball up the middle today, we didn't look to bad at all... and hit Robertson and Neitz on the chest from these set-ups. Why do we revert to playing on the wings when going up the middle was a successful ploy? Okay, if it gets turned over whilst you have run it up the middle, you will get hurt more on the rebound... but that is a defensive mind-frame. Back yourself in... run it up the middle! It worked on most occasions that we did it today. One play stood out for me, Bruce got the ball (either from a mark or free-kick) and immediately looked to the wing for a target... and completely missed 3 blokes in the guts who had as much chance of winning the ball as the blokes on the wing did... bloody back your team-mates in!!! I was so frustrated watching today... seriously!!! There was NO EFFORT after half-time, and it doesn't matter who is on your board, or who is in the coaching box, or who is taping the ankles in the room... IF THE PLAYERS DO NOT PUT IN EFFORT, YOU WILL NEVER WIN!!! -