Dante

Maybe they just underestimate him.

Why do we always throw up Salem as a trade, it never ceases to amaze me.

Well neither player got a game in the last so I'm not sure what you can make of that, does it mean that their cards are marked as no longer required, or does it mean that they will be re contracted and a game now is irrelevant. I'd hope that they both stick around, I know that the general consensus is, one can't kick and one is too slow, but they are much better prospects than Terlich and they gave him 2 years last time. Trenners is a very popular player round the club and among the supporters so if he is given another contract, it will be welcomed by most, not all of course but by most. Grimes is also pretty popular but hasn't had to go through the hardship that Trenners has, so they may not require him, pity his decision making is such an issue, he does make a few mistakes but which player doesn't. if one or both go I'd like to wish him/both well and hope he/they do well wherever they are.

Yes they did, but I would imagine that Trenners is fitter now than he was then, remembering he didn't have a full pre season. I would hope they would give him a run to see how he has improved over the year. Also some of the younger players are running on empty, Clarry has coped two heavy knocks over the las few games and I reckon he's in need of a spell. Gus is looking pretty tired and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a rest as well. I'm not sure why we have this big rush for pushing the kids along, there is room for some of the senior players as well and I reckon we've given some of the younger players too many games, I thought we learnt from last year when we didn't give Gus enough rest.

I don't think that would be the plan, more that they would get to gauge his performance and his capacity to still play at this level, that would assist them on the sort of contract to offer him for the next 1 to 2 years. No game is meaningless, we need to develop a winning culture and a game like this where the opposition has a lot to lose will be a guide to where we are at.

General Provocateur.

I give up.

That may be so but you have to cut the cord, eventually, otherwise your list will just stagnate. They now have 4 spots on their list and there will be others, so the can rejuvenate their list, let's face it the same players dominate their top ten every year and that's just not sustainable, they will always remain middle of the road if they continue that way. And no we don't need him.

BenKen got dropped earlier this year and played a great game at Casey, he was promoted the following week and didn't perform all that well in the following weeks. I think they may be telling him that he needs to be more consistent and not just play the odd good game. He will be ok and I'd imagine they'd play him as a small forward, maybe a stint in the middle.

I'm not sure why my concern, concerns you. Look, I think you are one of the more knowledgeable posters on here but I just don't think you place enough importance on our inability to beat the same teams over and over, never mind though, we can't always agree. I got laughed at, when I suggested that there was a sickness that went through the club from generation to generation and i believe I was right and that Roos and Jackson cut the sickness out. Maybe I've got this one right too.

Kennedy has averaged 17.3 disposals a game 3.1 marks 0.9 goals 2.6 tackles Howe has averaged 19.0 disposals a game 6.9 marks 0.2 goals 2.6 tackles There's not a lot in it, so we haven't lost and we don't have a player that only plays on his terms, I don't see where we would play Howe this year. He doesn't provide run and he doesn't have a great football brain.

I'll stop worrying about when we start beating them, 2006 they beat us both times for 2 of their only 3 wins, we were in the finals, hardly Fitzroyesque, they finished last. I'm surprised it doesn't bother you, we would have finished 3rd instead of 7th in 2006 and had a double chance.

Wasn't the Richmond/Saints game one of the worst of the year? I'm not sure how many good games Rioli has played but I'd guarantee Hunt has played more.

Disagree there Old, I think of the two BenKen is the better player he is just not consistent at this stage. Getting dropped a couple of times will hopefully wake him up and he will see that he is good enough but needs to be more consistent. There may have been some, but I can't remember any games where Jeremy was up the top of our better players, he just went put and played the same old, same old every week with the occasional speccie. I remember one game at Etihad where they pushed him forward and I expected he'd really shine there, he was terrible and just went through the motions, he had no idea where to lead and no real energy in his play.

If people can't see that Carlton have the wood on us then they aren't looking, we have beaten them once in the last 9 years. I don't give a stuff if we have different players and coaches and they do as well, they still manage to beat us no matter what. Even back in 2006 when we finished up playing finals and Carlton finished last, they beat us twice and only won one other game for the year.

You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, the kids are our future but until they are capable of taking up the reigns they will need players like Pedo and Matt Jones and Trenners and a few others to help them through. So I guess that in a way Pedo is part of our future because he is an important player for the club until they are ready. Quite conceivably he could play for another 4 years or so, I guess you have to ask, where does the future start and the present end?

Pedo started a bit late in football so his body hasn't been battered like some 30 year old players. He adds to the balance of the side.

I'd like him to get to 100 games so we can claim his offspring.

I think Bernie is playing the role of enforcer and he's flown close to the wind several times this year, I'm surprised he hasn't been suspended, at least once. Perhaps he needs a break, playing in such a young group puts extra pressure on the senior players. Another thing his form seems to have dropped off since he let his hair grow, shave it off Bern.

That is true, but where do we draw the line and lose games we should win, because we choose players that are not ready over those that can help the club improve its win loss ratio? There are some players that should have been left in the VFL for the year and some players that have been at Casey for most of the year that should have been given some game time. Look at Spence, he is 27 this year, he has played 39 games in 8 years, surely they should either play him or move him on. Would there be any point in reprising his game last year against Geelong.

Actually it was 9 losses on end and they must have done their homework on us last year because they beat us then too. Sorry and the year before and ........... They don't need to do their homework they know us and it all falls in to place, they have our measure.

The media have always had an over inflated opinion of Howe because of this highlights reel of marks. He is playing better than he did with us, but we are better off without him, he was lazy and unaccountable, some of the decisions he made were incredibley stupid.

Not a pity party at all, I'm only concerned that the coaching staff address the issues we seem to have with certain clubs, I go to most of those games expecting to lose and they never let me down. The Saints finished on top of us this year and that's only because we let them beat us both times and we let a bunch of mis fits at Essendon beat us which, along with the Debacle on Sunday, kept us out of the finals. You may not be concerned now, but will you be if we get done by the same three sides next year?

Do you realise that the sample you rejected before included all the players we have now? Nought and 8 over the last two years and nought and 4 this year, what does that say to you? WTF do you want? You asked for a bigger sample and I gave it to you, sorry it doesn't fit in to your argument. Of course we've improved and of course we have better ball movement, but it obviously doesn't work against some sides.

Then we should learn to. We could, quite conceivably, play 4 gams a year there, so do we just give up on them? Do the players only put in if they agree with the venue and opponent?