Dante

General Provocateur.

I give up.

That may be so but you have to cut the cord, eventually, otherwise your list will just stagnate. They now have 4 spots on their list and there will be others, so the can rejuvenate their list, let's face it the same players dominate their top ten every year and that's just not sustainable, they will always remain middle of the road if they continue that way. And no we don't need him.

BenKen got dropped earlier this year and played a great game at Casey, he was promoted the following week and didn't perform all that well in the following weeks. I think they may be telling him that he needs to be more consistent and not just play the odd good game. He will be ok and I'd imagine they'd play him as a small forward, maybe a stint in the middle.

I'm not sure why my concern, concerns you. Look, I think you are one of the more knowledgeable posters on here but I just don't think you place enough importance on our inability to beat the same teams over and over, never mind though, we can't always agree. I got laughed at, when I suggested that there was a sickness that went through the club from generation to generation and i believe I was right and that Roos and Jackson cut the sickness out. Maybe I've got this one right too.

Kennedy has averaged 17.3 disposals a game 3.1 marks 0.9 goals 2.6 tackles Howe has averaged 19.0 disposals a game 6.9 marks 0.2 goals 2.6 tackles There's not a lot in it, so we haven't lost and we don't have a player that only plays on his terms, I don't see where we would play Howe this year. He doesn't provide run and he doesn't have a great football brain.

I'll stop worrying about when we start beating them, 2006 they beat us both times for 2 of their only 3 wins, we were in the finals, hardly Fitzroyesque, they finished last. I'm surprised it doesn't bother you, we would have finished 3rd instead of 7th in 2006 and had a double chance.

Wasn't the Richmond/Saints game one of the worst of the year? I'm not sure how many good games Rioli has played but I'd guarantee Hunt has played more.

Disagree there Old, I think of the two BenKen is the better player he is just not consistent at this stage. Getting dropped a couple of times will hopefully wake him up and he will see that he is good enough but needs to be more consistent. There may have been some, but I can't remember any games where Jeremy was up the top of our better players, he just went put and played the same old, same old every week with the occasional speccie. I remember one game at Etihad where they pushed him forward and I expected he'd really shine there, he was terrible and just went through the motions, he had no idea where to lead and no real energy in his play.

If people can't see that Carlton have the wood on us then they aren't looking, we have beaten them once in the last 9 years. I don't give a stuff if we have different players and coaches and they do as well, they still manage to beat us no matter what. Even back in 2006 when we finished up playing finals and Carlton finished last, they beat us twice and only won one other game for the year.

You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, the kids are our future but until they are capable of taking up the reigns they will need players like Pedo and Matt Jones and Trenners and a few others to help them through. So I guess that in a way Pedo is part of our future because he is an important player for the club until they are ready. Quite conceivably he could play for another 4 years or so, I guess you have to ask, where does the future start and the present end?

Pedo started a bit late in football so his body hasn't been battered like some 30 year old players. He adds to the balance of the side.

I'd like him to get to 100 games so we can claim his offspring.

I think Bernie is playing the role of enforcer and he's flown close to the wind several times this year, I'm surprised he hasn't been suspended, at least once. Perhaps he needs a break, playing in such a young group puts extra pressure on the senior players. Another thing his form seems to have dropped off since he let his hair grow, shave it off Bern.

That is true, but where do we draw the line and lose games we should win, because we choose players that are not ready over those that can help the club improve its win loss ratio? There are some players that should have been left in the VFL for the year and some players that have been at Casey for most of the year that should have been given some game time. Look at Spence, he is 27 this year, he has played 39 games in 8 years, surely they should either play him or move him on. Would there be any point in reprising his game last year against Geelong.

Actually it was 9 losses on end and they must have done their homework on us last year because they beat us then too. Sorry and the year before and ........... They don't need to do their homework they know us and it all falls in to place, they have our measure.

The media have always had an over inflated opinion of Howe because of this highlights reel of marks. He is playing better than he did with us, but we are better off without him, he was lazy and unaccountable, some of the decisions he made were incredibley stupid.

Not a pity party at all, I'm only concerned that the coaching staff address the issues we seem to have with certain clubs, I go to most of those games expecting to lose and they never let me down. The Saints finished on top of us this year and that's only because we let them beat us both times and we let a bunch of mis fits at Essendon beat us which, along with the Debacle on Sunday, kept us out of the finals. You may not be concerned now, but will you be if we get done by the same three sides next year?

Do you realise that the sample you rejected before included all the players we have now? Nought and 8 over the last two years and nought and 4 this year, what does that say to you? WTF do you want? You asked for a bigger sample and I gave it to you, sorry it doesn't fit in to your argument. Of course we've improved and of course we have better ball movement, but it obviously doesn't work against some sides.

Then we should learn to. We could, quite conceivably, play 4 gams a year there, so do we just give up on them? Do the players only put in if they agree with the venue and opponent?

As I said, if we can't beat the Saints and Blues and we've let a few to the Scum as well, we will always be middle of the road. i recall the Hawthorn games where we were beaten every time we played them and you could be confused for thinking the game you were watching was a replay of the game the year before. I was at the Carlton game last year and it was so much like the game on the weekend, it was all over after 5 minutes. We have to change the way we approach the Saints and Blues games and also, we cannot afford to get beaten but a club like Essendon.

Played 2008 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 1 2009 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2 2010 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 1 2011 Blues Lost 2 Saints Lost 1 2012 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2 2013 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 1 2014 Blues Won 1 Saints Lost 1 2015 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2 2016 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2 In the last 9 years we have beaten Carlton once and the Saints not even once and at the same time we have lost to them 19 times and you don't think there's a problem?

Plan B may be as simple as having Spencer in the side, as well as Gawn, in games where we know he has an opposition ruckman he struggles against, like Tom Hickey and Kreuser. Other sides have worked out that if they negate Gawn we are in strife and they either beat him or break even in the centre and use a third man up at other ball ups. Gawn is the most important player in our side and if we want him to continue to be that, we must rest him more and I cannot understand why we brought in Weed (who is a long way off senior selection, he will be good but needs time) and dropped Pedo and didn't consider Spence. We need someone that can jump in to the opposition ruck and slow them down and we need players to stop the third man up.

If that's the case then why can't we play Gold Coast and GWS as away games at the MCG, it would achieve the MCC's purpose and give the interstate clubs the opportunity of playing at the G. There may only be 15,000 supporters at the games but MFC supporters would be happy. That way we could play Essendon and Carlton twice a year at the G, as well and get even more games there, the MCC would be over the moon.

What you say might be true, for the most part, but it still doesn't address the problem we have with Carlton, St Kilda and Essendon, they play a style of football that we don't seem to be able to counter. Until we can sort this out we will be middle of the road and those clubs, if they get their act together, will go past us.