Dante

To GWS they were because they had so many more that were better and can afford to give us surplus stock. Just as we have players we talk about as being unable to break in to the midfield because they are behind so many others, ANB is a classic example, do you think we'd trade Oliver or Viney? Difference is they have so many just below the best as well as having so many that are in their best, we take the scraps and they pick up more top draft picks, we don't have a choice and they take advantage. GC have had a dreadful run with injuries, just wait until they have a full side to field, wait until they offload Prestia and O'Meara who are, imo never going to be as good as they were and replace them with a few more talented top end kids.

Plus they were able to rape and pillage clubs picking any player they wanted from any club they chose.

They didn't just get high draft picks they got a plethora of them. We have had a history of failure and we had to rid our club of that baggage, they had and have no history so there was a fresh slate and no hang ups, no money problems, more players than any other club, the arrogance of having so much talent around them. They could afford to throw some scraps away like Tyson, Frost and Bugg and the half dozen they traded to Carlton, because none of them were better than the players they kept. They didn't throw away Hogan they couldn't have kept him because he was part of the mini draft and even though he wasn't their player we had to give him a top 5 pick to get him, how outrageous is that. Sure we effed up our selections over the previous 10 years, but do you think we may have done better if we had the number of picks GWS had and the money they were given? It's like the Government giving (and I mean giving) a start up grant to a business of $100m and when others complain telling them to suck it up kiddies, are you serious? You do understand that clubs have ups and downs and Hawthorn have been on the up and were well before GWS were formed, let's see what happens to them and other traditional clubs as both GWS and GC start to dominate. We get a top ten pick and salivate, they have 3 or 4 every year, now that's fair isn't it.

I like Spencer but hasn't he been on the list for 20 years or so? Seriously, if Spencer had any ambition he would have gone elsewhere many years ago (I know he's been injured) and not stuck around Melbourne, it concerns me that he's happy to play VFL forever. You want a ruckman, or any player for that matter, to be hungry and desperate for a game, not someone that's happy to bring his sandwhiches along and watch the big boys play.

Our midfield isn't as good as some believe it is, there are a few that may turn out to be exceptional and a few who are and always will be, just a little off the pace. If the opportunity comes along to pick up a quality mid then we have to look at it. However, I don't think there is any need to have a huge turnover this year. You don't do anything without a purpose and throwing out players who haven't been given the chance to prove their worth is stupid. Wagner has had one pre season and I'd say he will be better for a second one, ANB will be a good player for us and I'd say it's probably only Demonlanders who are thinking of trading him, what are we realistically going to get for him? JKH has a history of Hammies so I'd doubt there would be a line of suitors there, maybe the Saints, they reckon their doctor can fix those sorts of problems. Dunn and Garland are not going to get you a second round pick and the club may need one, or both as backup. Grimes may walk or he may be offered a new contract, I'm sure he'd rather stay with us and from what I've seen of him he looks like he's enjoying his football again. White will be a good footballer for us, he needs game time but may have to wait a bit for his chance. It will be interesting to see just who does go but I'm tipping a small turnover this year. You can't destabilise a team by having wholesale changes every year, you need to give players a chance to show if they are up to it.

That's how it works, they trade two NQR players who have a bit of talent but are surplus to needs for a top ten pick, as long as that continues they will grow stronger and we will stand back and watch them. it's a bit like getting your elder brothers hand me down clothes when your parents buy him new ones.

That game was brutal today and they stood up to, then stood over Sydney, who are one of the most hard at it sides in the competition. The Older players in Mumford, Stevie J and Shaw started it but the younger brigade didn't take a backward step. We should make sure that all our players watch this game so they understand what it takes to win a final.

They throw us their scraps and we pay top odds for them, we have to play hard ball and stop giving them high end picks for surplus players. They trade two good players to us and pick up one elite player, they don't need the two good players and are happy to top up their elite squad. I understand that we were in a unique position and needed an influx of talent but I'd hope that we won't do that again, they need to shed players, but we don't need to continue to trade top picks for them.

As long as we, us and other clubs, keep trading picks for their surplus players they will be a top side. I can see them getting first round picks for at least the next 3 to 4 years. make no mistake they will only give off players that they don't want, unless a Collingwood comes along prepared to give them the World.

I heard from a very reliable source today, that before the Geelong game the players were cooked and according to the source the club thought they had about 2 quarters left in them. Take that for what you want.

We have to get the club in to a position where the fringe players are prepared to bide their time and wait for a game when they are ready, Hawthorn are masters at this and can have players in a queue waiting for a call up. No point in having a player on the list for 3 years who is just below best 22 and replacing him with a draftee who may be in the same position in 3 years time. I'd hate to lose ANB, I think he has a lot of ability and if he can hang in there for a while he may become a regular, form, retirements, players moving on, they all play part in it.

We are a middle of the road team, Geelong are going to challenge for the flag, we were no match for them and having Hibberd in the side wouldn't have made any difference. They would have probably beaten any side in the competition last week and it was just unfortunate we happened to be the team that played them. If we are going to get an experienced plater to give us two years of leadership we need to look at someone younger than 34, he is going to be lucky to play out one full year let alone two.

Dawes would be a good influence on the younger players, so if they offered him a performance based contract I think that would be a fair thing. He knows where he's at, he knows he's not going to get a lot of games, but his influence at both the firsts and Casey shouldn't be underestimated. Quality person, hard at it and pretty smart.

I think you'll find the only ones that want to trade him, are some less informed Demonland posters. He will be a mainstay of our side for some years to come, a very good player. I'm looking forward to seeing him play along side our other young players with a full pre season under their belts.

I guess he needs it.

They've delisted both Schultz and the Butcher, guess they will be after a forward or two now. Butcher was going to go number one in the draft early on.

Yes I forgot Bernie and would have to say I was really happy when we got him because he was quality, however, what about the other ones I mentioned, how do you think they've gone? As for Weed, I don't consider any part of my post referred to swapping draft picks for draftees, it was all about trading draft picks for average, at best, footballers like some of the ones I mentioned. I understand that we had to use this years number one selection for Weed but I question using our number 2 as well. I understand that we haven't been a destination club so we won't attract top liners and under this circumstances we should be looking at better options in the draft. I don't mind BenKen but I understand that he's going to struggle to get a regular game with us and Michie and Newton have hardly fired a shot in their time with us, Dawes cost us a top pick and he's been injured most of the time he's been with us. It was known that he had issues before he was drafted by us. Hibbered is 26 - 27 so when we are in a position to challenge he will be on the verge of retirement, unless he is an exceptional athlete and can continue in to his 30's, is he worth a top 30 pick, is he better than what we would get in the draft, a player that may have 10 years with us, or not.

Normally we rely on you communicating with the players and giving us the answers we need,

Went past our training oval this morning and there was a number of players training, must be the Casey eligible players, I didn't have time to stop but there would have been 15 or so players there. Looks like they are going to take the finals seriously this year.

Not at all, I just get sick of us going after second tier players and paying top price for them. I'm not sure what Hibberd is like but I don't see us fighting off competition and like Melksham I get the feeling that Essendon are not happy to lose him. We seem to continually go after players like Dawes, H, BenKen, Michie and Newton who are not quite good enough. Which of the players that we've drafted, apart from Tyson and Frosty, over the last 5 years have been regular players? There are others that have simply been horrendous, like Byrnes, Gillies, Terlich etc. that are either gone or are about to go. We don't do well on scraps and that's all we seem to want.

So we don't have a first round pick and we are going to trade our second round pick as well, wonderful. Or are we trading a player for a second round pick? Whatever, we always seem to get shafted, we don't fight hard enough and seem happy to pick up GWS scraps.

Was it? I always thought that excuse was a load of bull shyte. Big no from me, I don't want us to take him back when he's finished and give him a kick along in coaching so he can go back to SA again.

All stats, expectations, possibilities and maybes aside, Pedders played reasonably well in the games he was in, he isn't going to be a world beater but he's serviceable. There are players in every side that the supporters question and they get a game, usually, because the coaching panel can see something in them that the supporters can't. He performs a role that the club want him too and if he ceases to perform that role they will move him on.

It will be interesting to see how these figures pan out next year, we will hopefully win more games and Clarry and Pedo will play more games together.

Teams we usually beat? We don't usually beat anyone.