ArtificialWisdom

Tmac to Tex and Frost to Jenkins would be the most likely. Frost is stronger than Omac 1 on 1. He could possible match Tex but i like Frost's speed on Jenkins. Omac will be on McGovern I think. Lately we have played a tighter zone which means there tends to be more 1on1s for stopages on the defencive side of the wing. Jetta has stopped betts once before I'll back him to go again. Hunt will possibly need to be accountable for Cameron (an underrated threat imo) he has the pace. When I look at it I think we match up ok defensivly. If we bring enough pressure to slow them down we have a chance. We can certainly match their midfield and I would hope to win the clearances. Jessie will have his work cut out for him against Talia but we will need Dawes and Watts to stand up forward and clunk a few. There's alot to like about our chances, but if we let them get on the outside they will just be too quick for us. Bring the heat boys, get us that scalp we so desperatly need.

I would demand a pretty high price for a young KPD who has shown far more good than bad, its absurd to let Tmac go for much less than one of their best youngsters. The fact people are so happy to trade any of our defenders blows my mind. They all have potential to improve (aside from jetta who is probably at his ceiling). Yes we need to look to get another KPD but Frost and the 2 Macs all have plenty of improvement in them. If they all reached their potential in 2/3 years time we would have a very moblie tall defence capable of matching most forwardlines.

Im not so sure oliver is that great with his decision making yet. He seems to make decisions before he has the ball. He gets the ball and you see him hold it out looking for a handball when its just not on, He as an innate ability to not get caught but it's not great that he decides what he is going to do then forces the outcome, want to see him a little more natural with his decision making, take the options he is given not try to create options if they arn't there. That said I think that flow will come and he will be a gun user in a few years time, hoping it is just a few first year nerves 100% on everything else, Wagner seems to be copping some for his decisions but I have been loving his ball use out of the backline. Yeah he makes the occasional mistake but he looks a smooth mover and Hunt is a bullet. I like the combination going forward. Add a Salem coming in as a loose sweeper kind of role and we have some real young promise coming out of the HBL.

Maybe harsh, but if he went and made another identical one after being discredited here then maybe.... oh wait

I think that mid-draft has more merit than trade, but how do contracts work? I'd happily delist a Terlich but he is contracted for full seasons not half seasons. Do we start having half season contracts? Do we have a midseason rookie draft where you pick up to 2 players from state leagues in the form of mid-year rookies and then they can be elevated the same way as normal rookies? Would work for major injuries but not so much for teams just lacking a puzzle piece.

deja vu?

Rate him pretty high, but if I had the choice I would take Prestia, just. Well worth investing some effort into. We can trade 1 more future rd 1 pick but im not convinced the club will be too keen to do that 2 years in a row. That would tie our hands for the following 2 years.

As a general football fan I love the idea of players moving around, reshuffling the race for a premiership late in the season. Means its all alot less predictable. As a club fan I hate it. No way any team outside the top 10 could attract a player of any caliber why would you move to a club with no hope of success?. Who is going to say yes to throwing their year away? It just wont work, AFL players have too much power. It would work if players were shuffled at club disgression, but a Prestia to a North type trade at this point in the year? there is no way that would ever result in a fair outcome to the GC, Great for north and maybe even for flag competition but not for equalisation.

I agree Wagner has a bad kick here or there but i can deal with the odd turnover once in a while, doesnt matter who you get they are all going to turn it over at times, jones and bernie had about 5 or 6 turnovers between them in the first 5 min of the collingwood game. What I cant deal with is a turnover that has come from someone running themselves into trouble, that is what Tmac does too much. I think Tom is harshly judged for his disposal, its not actually that bad but he seems to want to do everything under pressure when he doesnt need to. A side step in slow motion might get him past 1 opponent but another colapses in and then he kicks off balance and under pressue when he could have kicked earlier. Wagner doesnt do this, he takes the first option. 8/9 times out of 10 the first option is the best one. Took tyson all of last year to learn that, but now he has and he is one of our best every week and nobody complains about his disposal anymore and he doesnt get caught nearly as often as before.

Chill man, I'm looking at this from a whole club perspective. At his age I would like to think we would be fighting for a flag before he is much over 30. That means if he is at he club we need him to improve. My consern is that his body will not allow him to either through injury or through his athletic limits. I'm not happy about it and i dont hate the guy its just the reality. Well thats a bit silly isnt it. Read part of a comment then assume the rest. I could have said anything after that. FWIW I'd like to see lumumba play for another year or 2 and Jack for another 7 or 8 but i just think it is unlikely.

oh haha of course how could i forget the golden fist! I dont think Jones is elite. He won B&Fs in a side where he was 1 of about 5 players at AFL standard which is unfortunate because the wins will never be as highly rated as he deserves. He is a compeditor and little more. His ability to will himself to win every contest makes him better than what I thought his raw talent would allow. But he doesnt have any weapons to call himself elite. Gawn is elite because his tapwork sets him appart then he just does a good job around the ground. Except the QB game where I think his tapwork was elite then he followed up being one of our best rovers! Class is so hard to tie directly to elite. Dane swan was widely refered to as elite but he doesnt have much class, as blue collar as they come. Rance too, he is an elite defender but no real 'class' they just do the job very well. Then you look at a Fyfe, Selwood, Dangerfield or Ablett who all have both blue collar and class then look at someone like a Pendlebury or a Mitchell who I think are just pure class. Yes they are hard enough to go in when required but they are there for other reasons. Then look at a Burgoyne he is super classy but i dont really think he is elite. Impossible to tell who is and isnt based on any criteria... its just a feeling, understanding of the game and where players sit and even then the biggest experts are going to disagree on a few.

Getting a game doesnt mean you're in the best 22. I would take a fit and fireing Brayshaw, Garlett or Salem over jack maybe even lumumba ahead as well. Grimes is also showing consistent good performances at casey but he isnt in the 22 because there are others ahead of him. Jack has his chance due to injuries and has done ok so far, but there hasn't been anything to suggest he will cement a spot going forward. I would suggest in the same amount of time M Jones showed more this year but he isnt getting the same support as Jack. Jack is showing good B grade form but i would like to see some glimpses of that higher potential he showed as a kid. He will get more chances as this year and next year come and go. We'll see, hope I'm wrong! If you think that the way jack has played is going to be enough then we will never be a premiership side. Jack is capable of more as are his teammates. Both need to improve, jack standing in the goal square wanting a 80m long kick over the top does not mean his teammates are providing poor delivery that means he is out of position. Saying Jack requires good teammates is a consern if you miss the target, players like viney, bernie, tyson, jones etc are quick enough to make it work even though they arnt speedsters jack can't he gets beaten to the contest by a few meters. He'll get better with more time and strength, 100% he will get an extention maybe a year or 2, but people seem to be living in a delusion that he is just as likely to make it as a Brayshaw or a CP5. His deficincies and his injuries makes it extraordinarily difficult, but, not impossible.

MVP is probably the same as the brownlow. I think elite is when you are among the best at what you do. The best defenders are elite but none of them are going to be voted in as MVP or win many awards. I also think that you dont have to be the best to be Elite, you need to be in the top few. As for sample size, personaly i think if you are playing to an elite level over any resonable period of time that puts you in the elite bracket, you do it repeatedly over a number of years and you lock yourself there for the remainder of your career. So Gawn is an Elite ruckman right now, but will have to maintain his form for years to come to be remembered as elite player at the end of his career.

I would also rather one of GWS, Crows or Dogs win it this year. In a year where underdogs like leicester and cleveland were able to win championships around the world it would speak pretty poorly on our games "equalisation" if we had a top tier club win again. If Geelong, Sydney or Hawthorn win I'll be fuming, sick of the same few clubs holding the cup.. That being said if GWS becomes the next freo and never wins a flag i wouldn't be too upset.

Thats a big step. Even when we lose the talk from the players no longer defensive, much more ownership taken. Roos says the occasional odd thing to draw any heat on himself rather than the players. Then everyone is humble and realistic when we win, all good signs.

Let them have their fun, they will win a flag or 2 then fall away like the lions. I think we have the talent to push them anyway. Besides people dont want to move to Blacktown unless they can get a flag. Eventually they will fall and that will be it, Lions 2.0

Dangerfield, Fyfe, Franklin, Rance, Goldy. All elite in their position and thats as good of a backbone as you're gonna get. Could argue having Kennedy as a second forward and forgo the ruckman. Future development would change thing, maybe look at Gawn and T Lynch (GC) instead of Goldy and Franklin.

yeah it is a bit harsh at times, boot from a pack is all swan was ever good at, just have to keep it going forward. But I do like the way Viney is taking it on a little more, he has that little burst to get some space then kick and thats a step above the blind kick. He has been working on his short distance kicks, fewer howlers recently, but i do preffer to see him either kick long or hand it off. I think we all do.

Biggest game of the remainder of year for us. Just simply have to win! They are behind us in talent and development, we shouldn't continue to lose to them or at Edihad for that matter.

I think judd was a poor kick but he limited himself. Tyson has done the same this year. Nothing over the top, do the basics well and you suddenly look really good! Tmac does the same and suddenly he becomes a star rebounding defender. Its more of elite decision making thing Judd had going for him, not so much pure skill. But either way we'll agree he was a super player.

haha I was sugesting that TMac (who we all know can make some mind boggling errors) is just as likely to hit his target kicking while standing on ice as either of those 2 are kicking normally. They were terrible users of the ball they were just teriffic ball winners who kept it simple.

Chris Judd and Dane Swan are both considered elite in their peak and both of their disposal was about as good as Tmac, blindfolded and on ice. They just play to their strengths as Viney is doing now. Nothing super fancy just win the ball and give it to the more slick and skilled players. Keep that up and that will make him an elite ball winner. More than enough of what we need.

Yes! those 2 marks were huge! A player who is good enough to just come up and say 'bugger it, I'll do it myself'. Those kind of things take a star and makes them a superstar.

I think thats the biggest point right now its tough to think about. We all want to see Trenners be a star or even just a good role player, but its so hard to do form where he has been. I'll keep hoping but it just seems so unlikely. But hell if leicester city and cleveland can win their respective championships then anything can happen!

That is an easy choice because blease wasnt competitive enough, but out of curiosity who would you take out of Hunt and Trengrove? I think what Hunt brings is more valuable than what trenners does. We have lots of trengrove-like players. Obviously in a perfect world we would have both, but i just wonder what you think when looking at a player who has more upside than blease ever did.