stevethemanjordan

Interesting observations. Having played with and against some great players, I believe there are many out there who are better all round players than Nicholson. I understand he got a spot on our list due to his running ability but that's not enough to get a spot on an AFL list in my eyes and I'll say it again, MFC have been the worst drafters in within the AFL over a number of years. Most would agree within the AFL. I understand international rookies and project big men have to learn the basic skills of the game if they're to get anywhere. That's why you can't compare Kurt Tippet to Nicholson. Kurt is a monster who possesses many more attributes than Nicholson straight off the bat. All he needed to do was learn the basics of the game and he was going to be a dominant player. He had height, strength, aggression, agility, coordination and his understanding of the game was fine for a player who was to play KPF. Compare that to Nicholson's.... A small (183cm) non-key position, lightly built player who possessed elite endurance, good speed and agility. Here's what he was missing. Aggression, basic football skills, decision making, ball handling. Do you know how many players are out there of his height who can run all day, are quick and are also missing those attributes? Too many. As for fitness or running ability. This is one of the most hit and miss subjects of all time. Whilst some can be 'naturally good runners', the truth of the matter is that anyone can get super fit with the right application and desire. Take Gary Ablett Jnr for example. All he did was lift his work rate to a level he never knew about and look what happened. If Sylvia had the same application, he could have been a star of the competition also. As for the being upgraded too early bit, I agree 100%. But I guess that's what happens when a club drafts and develops so poorly over a number of years. It really makes it easy to understand why we are in the place we're in.

Or some prefer to have an objective opinion.... Satyriconhome it sounds like you're friends with the entire list. No [censored] wonder you have something to say anytime a supporter critiques a player.

Clisby was also. All that has proven anyway was our inability to draft over a number of seasons. McKenzie and Nicholson have almost been best 22 for the past few seasons. That is a major worry.

It doesn't matter that it was the rookie draft, there are still players I play with and against in the Amo's who would contribute far more than an ability to 'run'. That is literally all he has going for him. Skills are not taught and learned within the AFL. They need to be there from the start. And for everyone else saying 'give him a break', please shut up. Stop becoming emotionally involved when a supporter and member critiques a player. Nicholson is not good enough to make it. I couldn't believe it when he was drafted from Uni Blues to begin with. I care about the club. Not an individual. I want the club to improve.

^ Sorry, wrong thread...

Cale Morton will be the next superstar of the competition, mark my words.

I think players like Clisby and Terlich are proof that we really did have a shocking period of recruiting. That's all it comes down to. Nicholson and JM would never get games in a decent side as others have pointed out. We need to keep turning the list over. Who agrees that our draftees of this year, (not including the recycled players) have proven that the recruiting of the past has been shambolic? I mean it's just incredible. Jones, Terlich, Kent and Clisby have shown more than a handful of shitkickers we still have running around on the park and this is on the back of one limited AFL standard pre-season and which is the same excuses people use to protect the shitkickers we have running around out there under-performing!!! Amazing.

Dan Nicholson is a liability. As of next year, I don't want to see him in our starting 22. He is an athlete, not a football player. Another drafting mistake during the BP days to go with many others.

Give Taggert a [censored] run. Jeez.

Your post resonates with me strongly, well said. Terlich and Kent have more skill and footy smarts in their pinky fingers than a lot of our list put together. Taggert should be given some games. I would have much more faith in him producing good footy and contributing positively in comparison to someone like Bail for instance.

And by dead wood I mean the following: Players who fail to implement the most basic skills at AFL level. Kicking and handballing. Decision making and football smarts. These are [censored] pre-requisites that players should already have before coming to a club and we have an abundance of players who haven't had these skill sets before being recruited.

We get that you hate Neeld, and I agree that there have been some questionable moves made whilst he's been in charge. However, it is an undoubted fact, that we indeed have the worst list in the competition by a country mile. You laugh at people who have faith in Neeld whilst others laugh at you for your assessment of our list... It's humorous all round really. A better Coach and a different game style would help I believe. However the number on problem is the amount of dead wood we have throughout our squad.

They are both VFL standard players who were brought in as harder bodies who could win contested ball to add some depth to our rubbish midfield. One will be gone be the end of the season if we have a successful free agency period and bring in a couple of quality mids. The other should be gone the year after.

If I hear one more comment about 'effort' I'll vomit. They are paid professionals. League footballers. Effort is a non negotiable. Skills and smarts are a second non negotiable but the MFC have managed to pick a bunch of blokes who struggle to tick one let alone two of those boxes. We have been this rubbish for so long that the poor MFC sads on demonland continue to to say, 'can't question the effort'. Give me a [censored] break. We are absolutely woeful and will be as long as half the names on the list continue to get games at this level. Dean Kent and Dean Terlich have shown more ability as players in their short number of games than about 15 to 20 players who continually get games. It's no [censored] wonder we are getting smashed every week. Neeld or no Neeld. The list is the number one issue.

It does matter. I think most supporters understand that you can improve your tank and the physiology of your body within the AFL system which will of course lead to more consistency on field in some capacity, however all I am saying is, for many on our list, it doesn't matter how much experience, age, improvement of aerobic capacity and physiology of the body occurs throughout their career if they don't have the basic skills and smarts are not instinctive from day one. Football skills and smarts are the imperative. The rest is secondary. This is why I don't agree with your stance on where our improvement will come from next year. My point about playing the game is very much an important factor when analysing players, because it is easy to pick out skill sets and footy smarts if you have played the game at a high level.

RP, with all due respect, it is easy to judge a players skill level, footy smarts, ball handling ability, speed and agility from the first time they step on the field. I saw it and called it early on with Morton, Bail, McKenzie, Magner, Couch, Pederson, Bate etc.. It is easy enough to see. I would like to ask a question, and this is not a battle of egos. What is the highest level or grade of football that you have played?

Our onfield improvement and climb up the ladder will come from some of these players but not all. It doesn't matter how many games or at what age they 'hit their peak' if they are not AFL standard football players. We have a plethora of them and that's thanks to our recruiting and development team.

No [censored] if you go into the draft to take 15 players chances are we'll get some shockers. I haven't read anything about drafting 15 players after delisting 15. It's a mix Nasher. You do understand our recruiting has been the worst of all clubs over the past 5 or 6 years don't you? We've got the bloke who worked under the head recruiter for collingwood and a beefed up department. That should be better than the BP recruiting department you would think so I wouldn't use 'Nichos or Bails' as a comparison. They are shocking picks. It is absolutely mandatory that over the next two years we again strip this sick and conditioned list. Anybody can see it needs to be done deliberately and carefully. At the end of this year I am hopeful that we move on another 10-15 players and draft, trade and use free agency to target certain players. I don't like what Neeld did bringing in Byrnes, rodan, gillies and Pederson. We obviously need to target some midfield talent and experience. 22 - 25 year old proven mids. Maybe one or two more dean terlich/Matt jones types and then draft young mids with the right [censored] attributes and get it right. If we did this over two years and got it right there would be obvious and steady improvement. New coaching panel too. These players on our list are below average footballers: Fix it with recruiting from the draft. They are mentally weak and are used to losing. They have lost hunger for the game: Fix it by bringing the RIGHT players in from other clubs. We have done it with Clark and I believe Dawes is a handy addition despite his onfield performances to date. These players are now conditioned and have developed bad habits thanks to being in a sick culture as well as already being average players when drafted: Fix it with mature aged skilled players who have a burning desire to play AFL, ie Matt Jones and Dean Terlich. Throw in an experienced coaching panel who have a proven track record of success. Give it two years and we're back on track.

Couldn't disagree more. Under two coaches, this list has been belted by 186 points and 145 or whatever it was. Neeld needs to go, and the list needs a huge turnover again. To get it right this time, (this is where I agree with Rhino), the club or AFL needs to employ a coaching team with a proven record of success. Our recruiting department needs to be beefed up and the list needs to be completely stripped. Nasher, how you believe a new coach will magically change the conditioned and ingrained patterns of play, habits and shocking skills that the majority of our list display is beyond me. It is a combination of us having the worst list in the AFL and being coached by someone who is not up to scratch. A rebuild from the top down as Rhino suggests is the only way this club has any chance of surviving let alone improving.

^^^ I don't like the guy, but he makes a point.

How about we settle on the superstar status already. Lets hope his transition to AFL is a smooth one and he is developed well next year under some decent leaders and in a better environment than he's currently in. He looks to have the tools. Come on MFC. It's time to develop a star.

We have a new head of recruiting and a from what I understand, a beefed up recruiting department. We can't get worst than the BP years. Three target areas. Foot skills, decision making and contested ball winners. Lets do it.

If players need work on a specific part of their game then it should be at Casey, likewise if coming back from injury and need some game time and match fitness. Now for someone like Taggert, I believe his attributes as a player suit larger grounds as he is pacey and can use the ball. I understand there are areas of his game that need improving but there are definitely guys who have been gifted games before they 'deserved' it so to speak. Even Toumpas being blooded in round 1. Taggert deserves a game, even if his numbers are low. I don't believe he has been given the same chance as what others have been given and he is someone who I believe could be a vital player for us. I hope he gets a gig soon.

It's simple. The MFC have made it hard by employing a plethora of people who have an inability to meet the standards and expectations of their job description. And we have paid for it big time in all facets of our club. Let's hope Peter Jackson gets the ball rolling.

RP, Here's what I believe. In recent years, our club has not had a strong and highly competent recruiting department which has led to below average players being recruited over and over and now we have a list that lacks the required skill and decision making ability to string more than one or two passes together on a football field. Our players run around like headless chooks chasing their opponents when we don't have the ball. Neeld insists on contested footy and winning first possession as a number one priority but we shoot ourselves in the foot by giving it away every [censored] time we get it. Our list is an absolute disgrace. Of course it doesn't help that there has been a lack of leadership and experience but that can be fixed. What can't be fixed is having these same players who may well have the right 'attitude' like McKenzie, but who will never improve their natural skill level, awareness or decision making ability meaning they will time and time again butcher the ball, turn it over and make terrible errors. We cannot execute ANY game plan because our list is so bad and it's overlooked time and time again by many. I would rather go back to square one, draft kids that display these three KEY attributes. Kicking skills, Contested footy winners, and smart human beings who display sound decision making skills. Dean Terlich has played a handful of games after one AFL pre season and has already shown more ability and is more valuable as a player in my eyes than McKenzie, Nicho, Bail, Evans, Magner, Couch, Jetta and the list of others who got the flick or were traded at the end of last year. That tells me that our recruiting has been [censored] awful over the past 5 or so years. We have not identified quality footballers. And as for the 'gifting games' goes, how many games did it take Terlich to make his way into the side? Same goes for Matt Jones. While his not as skilled as Terlich, he again has shown more than that list I went through above. I don't care that Matt Jones is 25, it's his skill level that is higher than that of the players I've mentioned. Same with Terlich. Even Kent. He can hit a [censored] target. This is what I mean be it being simple. Why have Richmond progressed so well? Because they have got players who can execute what is required when asked. Why have Port Adelaide moved forward? Because they have quality on their list. Players who can use the ball and make sound decisions. I would gift games to players and play kids if they possessed those three attributes and I don't care if it means we are outmuscled. Because that's all it will be!!! Outmuscled. Build their bodies and tanks and the rest will take care of itself. We've been building tanks and bodies for how long with our list and have the skills or decision making skills improved? Not on your life. I suggest you look at the way Hawthorn drafted for the team they have now. They identified key attributes and drafted players to build a team who could execute a gameplan and Hawthorn had shocking experience and leadership when Vandenberg was Captain. Recruitment is key. We can speed up this process with Free agency. I'm hopeful that Neeld shares the same concerns. That we have an abundance of dumb, skill-less, pathetic footballers that we need to get rid of to keep this club alive. Too many supporters let their ego's go too far. I don't care that some of these players are 'good servants' or 'hard workers'. If they can't play the game, we are doomed. It's [censored] simple.