stevethemanjordan

Well, I don't agree with you. There is a big difference between someone like Houli and Greenwood. Greenwood is not a talent. He is an average footballer. Stop grouping these players together. Yes you're right in saying there are midfielders out there who would be worthwhile going after, but do a bit of critical thinking. There are three reasons our midfield is the worst in the AFL. Lack of depth, lack of talent and something I call MFC environmental conditioning. Nobody thought Clarke would come to Melbourne considering he wanted to go home to WA, but look what happened? Would you have considered snaring him a realistic chance back then? Anything can happen.

And while I'm at it, if Kent can have a great pre-season and shed some weight, he could be another option for a run on ball. Same goes with Tapscott. We will get better when these players - (who do have skill) - also develop a serious fitness base and a thirst for working really hard both ways. Kent Taggart Jones Sylvia Viney Barry Toumpas Trengove Tapscott Terlich Grimes They're 11 players who should all be able to play midfield within the next couple of years. It's about developing them with the right coaches, environment and hopefully some leaders/(free agents) around them. They're all skilled and smart. Most have the ability to play inside and again, those who aren't inside players can also develop a hunger for the inside ball and contest. It's about mental development.. A change of the psyche Bring in another crop of mids at this years draft with the right attributes and mind sets and maybe trade for one or two culture and club changers, and we'll be okay. We just need a really good learning and developing environment at our club. Even if we can't get our hands on some worthwhile FA at the end of the year, I'd be trying to bring in at least two ex star mids who can coach, influence and inspire this group. It can happen. Royal doesn't help. These players need inspiration. There's a good crop there, I'm telling you. I'm usually negative nellly.

The 'out of favour' types are out of favour because they're not quite cutting it for their respective teams. Taking fringe players can work out with the right planning, especially for certain positions. It's a ridiculous idea to suggest that we snap up any out of favour mid and gift them games in our midfield. That's not the way to go about it at all. If Sewell was at our club, he would hardly set the world on fire. He is made to look a lot better than he is because he plays in a fantastic midfield. We need to continue to develop Grimes, Jones, Trengove, Viney, Toumpas and Sylvia and try and get a really good free agent or two by the end of the year who can really influence and inspire that core midfield group of players. Someone like Mundy or Cooney. Nurture and develop our talent and bring in some leadership and really hard working free agent mids. I don't agree with the Greenwood suggestions. It would just be injecting our club with more average mids. There's a [censored] reason he's not getting a game. Do people think about that?

Well say that to the many players who have developed into great players with the help of great coaches and a new environment. I'm not saying that if we were to get him to the MFC somehow he would magically switch into gear, however you are pretty much ruling it out in your comment above.

Out of contract at the end of the year and unfortunately has just done his knee. 185 cm mid/HF who has had an outstanding year in the WAFL but just couldn't crack into the the Freo midfield due to how well they're travelling. Young Victorian boy, I reckon we should have a crack. There are a few clips on youtube from the WAFL and I saw his debut game against the Cats a while ago. He's a goer with better skills than most I've named below. I'd certainly have him on the list ahead of Bail, Nicho, Magner, Couch, Rodan and Byrnes. I reckon he's a good target.

Well then that's why he underwhelms you. You clearly haven't seen enough of him. I don't understand how you rate someone like Kelly above Sheed when Kelly is the meaningless outside possession gatherer that you referred to in your earlier post. Sheed wins his own ball, goes forward and kicks goals, captained WA, has a nice left foot with great awareness and agility and Hogan speaks highly of him as a past teammate. The Hogan remark alone should be enough to win you over I would have thought..

They're cooked because of our list WYL***. Not because of his coaching ability. I said it before but if Roos took over this week, we would still lose to to Gold Coast on the weekend.

I'd say some get it at different times. Others not at all. Frawley has shown no signs of getting it, and again, I am using him as one example, never was I blaming him for where the MFC stands now. I'm just a strong believer that we drafted players who are not very smart. Couple that with the environment the MFC have provided over the past decade and you're in quicksand most of your career. Viney has a different sort of hunger and determination. Hogan seems to have it too. Jones can be put in that category. Even Terlich. The way they play is as though their lives depend upon every contest they enter. They're also smart players. We need more of them.

Appointing the right coach is absolutely imperative for contributing to build a football club's traits such as culture, belief, work ethic, discipline etc etc. There is no arguing that. However, what is equally important, is drafting and trading for the kinds of players who will absolutely take to these principles and structures that are set in place and pick this club out of the hole it's in, thrusting it straight back up to where it needs to be. This is about drafting smart, hungry, desperate and skilled footballers and weeding out current players who are victims of the current environment and who cannot and will not respond to any sort of coach. When I watch James Frawley play, I think to myself, "Wow, here's a guy who just doesn't have the awareness or consciousness to be able to grab this group by the scruff and take them forward". Now, James has been absolutely blessed when it comes to his physical build, speed, agility and (most of the time), footballing skills. When it comes to his capacity to think, his awareness and his level of consciousness, he really falls behind. This is about having a holistic understanding of what it takes to be a leader amongst men and building a strong and successful footy club with people and players who have a consciousness bigger than the size of a golf ball. Tom Harley is someone who has left a legacy at the cats. He and Frawley have a very similar physical attributes, however one helped transform a club. Frawley is simply another sheep, happy to beat his man, not have much to say, not care to inspire nor willing to change his ways. He can't. He is a victim of the MFC's environment and he has a limited capacity to think. He is one example. I'm not having a pot shot. He is one of many who are sick and dumb. Sylvia, Jamar, Davey, Dunn. These players all suffer from the same thing to varying degrees and the more players you draft in with limited capacities to think and who are expected to be inspired by the above crop of players will also suffer. That is strictly a recruiting problem though. We could go further back to the days of Yze, Robbo, White etc who also saw AFL as just a kick in the park but I won't go into it. It's top down stuff and we've heard it all before. Coach, board, recruitment, development, and players are all as important as each other. If we got Paul Roos tomorrow and had the same list, I would be confident to say we would still lose to the Suns on the weekend. The problems at MFC run deep. Stop neglecting the deep, psychological complexities that most of the playing group suffer from. No coach can change conditioning.

BTW. The clip of Sheed on youtube is not something to base your judgement on. Most of those highlights are uncontested possessions and kicks and those kinds of highlight reels are so misleading. Reserve your judgement.

He moves smoothly but he's not an explosive player or pacey. He's agile and has great awareness so is rarely caught. I hate comparing draftees to AFL players but his running motion and the way he kicks reminds me a bit of Pendles. It's smooth. Sheed is similar. Hard to say with Hogan and Martin, but yes I'd definitely have them top 5 with Boyd, Sheed and one of Scharenberg or Aish in there as well.

X-factor is probably the wrong word to describe Sheed. I think I should have said that he has a number of strong attributes rather than one or two. From what I've seen, no other mid ticks as many boxes in this draft. So I guess that's Sheed's X-factor. He has a number of strengths. I would compare him to players like Lewis and Hodge. He has that perfect balance of being able to win his own ball on the inside and outside, he is physical, shows a bit of attitude and most importantly is a goal kicker. The article above suggests he is an elite ball user and whilst I don't know about elite, he certainly uses it well. He is no doubt the pick of the bunch. BH, if you're reading, I'm intrigued to know why you rate someone like Kelly above Sheed? Kelly is an outside player with maybe two strong attributes to his name and he is one of those players that would definitely not have an impact at AFL level for a number of years. Don't be fooled by that high possession count. Reminds me of a certain someone who we traded to West Coast last year... We need impact players and well balanced Mids with a number of strong attributes. Sheed has got to be a lock.

In my eyes, he is the kid with the most x-factor out of Aish, Kelly and Billings. Scharenberg is the other player I rate highly and would pick ahead of Kelly and Billings also. Think about the importance of goal kicking mids. Sheed is a goal kicking mid. He is a contested ball king and still wins plenty on the outside and uses the ball well enough. These are the mids we need.

Taggart deserves a run. He has been asked to perform consistently all year and now has had two dominant games in a row, (even if the last was in the development squad). I think he possesses some extremely valuable traits. He runs hard, has great hands and a beautiful kick. He doesn't mind body contact either and this game against GWS is the perfect game to blood him. I'd also bring in Straussy, he deserves another run after a great game on the weekend. Bring them both in.

jesus christ I'm over these statements.

It sounded like a snide remark to me RP. List management obviously needs to be well thought out. I will give you an example of what I'm trying to say. If we have the opportunity to free up some cash and bring in a mentality shifter of some sort then I would encourage players like Frawley and Sylvia to go it as I think neither of them offer anything in terms of strong leadership and inspiration to our younger brigade. They are cancerous and neither of them care. We need to start doing these things to move our club along.

I don't wish to engage in a battle of ego's with you. ("yes, it was quite something") It's not about a view. It's about getting those perpetrators out and bringing in well developed, smart and strong minded players from other clubs like we've done with Clarke and Dawes as well as continue to draft and nurture the right players. I've never said everyone goes in one year. I've said the sooner they go, the better and that's the truth if we get the right players for them.

Just like Nic Nat wouldn't be the player he is now if he was with us, the same can be said for Ollie Wines if he were at Melbourne this year. When your team is getting smashed week in/week out, it doesn't matter what individual you have in your side. There is too much talk of individual performance and neglect of the root causes and complexity of issues at our club. It's plain and simple to me. We need to be absolutely ruthless as a club and strip the list bare. This is about re-conditioning the entire club and moving on players that some will say are too valuable to get rid of. It's about saving this [censored] club. If we need to trade Frawley or any other high profile player at our club for well developed players and leaders who can change this [censored] place then so be it. The lack of thinking ability and level of consciousness of players on our list is astounding and I'm going to outline some of the symptoms shown because of this: Absolutely no ability to execute any sort of game plan. Terrible decisions and awareness. No want or desire to lead. Happy to cruise through AFL football, without too much thought process and individual analysis of what it means to be elite. The following players are like a virus to our club. Frawley Sylvia Garland Dunn Davey Jamar All of these players are sick. They are asleep. They have a conditioned mentality which we see on-field weekly. They are all shot. The sooner we move them on, the better for our club. Watch their [censored] body language onfield. Garland is the only one who gets a pass this year but that's because he is the only one with the capacity to think. The others are sheep. Frawley is a physical monster, but that's it. He has a pea brain which tranlates to his body language onfield and we see it every week. He doesn't think about anything other than himself and his opponent or what he is going to do that night for dinner.. The same can be said for the rest on that list. They are sick. They are complete sheep. These players are supposed to be our leaders. I want them gone. Then there's our many number of players that don't have the required skill level to be playing AFL. This can be directly pointed to our terrible drafting over the past few years. Players in this category who are not AFL standard are the following: McKenzie Tynan Nicholson Spencer Davis Evans Bail Jetta Macdonald None of these players would be starting 22 at other clubs. The mature age recruits brought in by Neeld to inspire culture change and a mentality change are as follows: Dawes Clarke Byrnes Rodan Gillies Pederson Sellar You could hardly say that list have been influential in the transformation of our mentality and playing culture. Dawes and Clarke are the only two valuable players in terms of on and off-field performance. The rest need to go. Then you have the poor young brigade of talented players who have been on the list for a while now and these poor kids are slowly getting sick as well. Look at the development rate of some of these kids. They have had no real leaders (bar Jones) to look to and two of them are our captains, they have no inspiration and their confidence was shot from day one due to a number of factors and because the team is flogged most weeks. Here they are: Watts Trengove Blease Strauss McDonald Grimes Tapscott Gawn Fitzy Howe These players are a part of our future and we need them to be able to push past this Virus at our club just as Jones has. They are sinking however, and it's a worrying sign. Then we have the untried young brigade who were either drafted last year or have been slowly developing for Casey. Viney Toumpas Hogan Barry Kent Taggart Matt Jones Terlich Clisby Stark We must absolutely nurture these players, manage and develop them in the right way for our club to move forward but for this to happen, we need to move on that first group of sick players who have no positive influence for our club or the development of these kids. Whilst some of these guys are considered mature-age players, it's still their first year within the AFL so I've slotted them in. I haven't included Magner or Couch as they are simply depth fillers and we have clearly seen enough to know that they aren't AFL standard either. Whilst this post is more or less a ramble, I felt the need to spit it all out. These are the issues of our list. It's a sad spot to be in but it is fixable. The more Clarkes' and Dawes' types we bring in and the more Daveys' and Jamar types we move on, the better. It's the only way the list can overcome this illness and before the latest crop of talented youngsters become affected as well. Please let next year be an absolute overhaul of these sick players who are slowly killing our once mighty club. Apologies for the long-winded rant. It's over.

I hope he stays. If he has a standout season and a match winning grand final game for us one day, I don't care how many more teasers he gives us. He will be valuable when we are up and running. Give us Roos and some good mids through FA and the draft. Give us 3 years and the 'G' will be a sea of red and blue again. What a beautiful thought.

There's no footage unless you've got the championship games JR. Keep an eye out though.

It ain't about the lark, and I'm certainly not claiming to know a whole heap about him but I believe my judgment is usually pretty good and I believe Sheed will be the midfielder of the draft. I guess we'll see in time. I rate Aish as the next in line but I don't see Cotchin similarities, I wouldn't say he's explosive like Cotchin is. He has a lovely side step and lateral vision, uses the ball well and is a great runner. He reminds my of Bernie Vince. Cotchin has too many strong attributes to be compared to Aish. Cotchin barely has a weakness. Aish is more of an outside runner. Don't be fooled by numbers all the time folks. Morton raked up uncontested possession time and time again during the carnival. Kelly does the same. There's not much about him that excites me. He is classy but is way too light on and isn't damaging enough. Again, don't be fooled by meaningless possessions. Sheed on the other hand gets big numbers, big contested possession numbers, kicks goals and has a lethal left foot. He carries a serious amount of arrogance and confidence in my eyes and he looks to be really driven. He's our man, I'm saying it now. We must get him.

So, Having viewed a few of the championship games, I have decided that Sheed is the first midfielder we must target. We need stars at the dees, and Sheed to me looks to be the most well rounded mid in the draft. This kid will be the pick of the bunch, I'll say it now. Beautiful left footer Is tough and wins his own ball Has good speed and agility Has clean hands Is a great leader Goal kicking mid Aish, Kelly, Dunstan and Billings aren't as strong all round as this man. Some of them may be stronger in one area but overall Sheed is the strongest which screams consistency to me. Get him to the Dees.

Fair post. Maybe it annoys me that they did draft from the ammos and Nicholson is the one they picked up. I'm telling you now his skills let him down even at VAFA level. It's my frustration and annoyance of the clubs past decisions that's amplifying my disposition on this Nicholson thing. That and the fact that some people continue to believe he will develop into a decent player.

Old dee, please. Enough with the breaks. I want this club to improve. Give ME a break.

Of course there others on the list who were picked from the ND, however this thread is about Nicholson is it not? We are discussing the player at hand, and even though he was from the rookie draft, I believe had we not had such a sub-standard recruiting department, he would not be on our list.