stevethemanjordan

Paul Roos will sort out his kicking? What the funk is wrong with this place.. Will the guy walk on water too?

Edited. I've been using that word in the wrong context for too long it seems.

Maybe. Maybe not. This [censored] is so deep though. Look at Viney for example. It's the environment he's been brought up in that has shaped and developed the attributes that have got him to this level. Watts almost has the complete opposite. Sublime skill and a smart footy head but has no physicality, hunger or work ethic. How does somebody re-condition a player like Watts? No coach or sports psychologist can work on such a thing if the subject is not willing to change, and that's the vibe I get from Watts. He doesn't want to change for us. Look at his level of performance. Look at his body language on field. Look at his chasing and tackling attempts. I don't want someone like that playing for the MFC. It makes me sick. Watts has got to understand that even if he is to play at another club, his level of performance is not magically going to change. It is completely determined by his output level and his desire to want to change this ingrained style of play. It's up to him to change.

I want Watts traded for the right player or draft pick. I had faith at one point that he would be able to change his mentality but I believe he doesn't want to for this club. The football club has contributed to his lack of confidence and performance but a lot of it is an ingrained style of play. Lazy, soft but skilled. If I think about the MFC and the attributes I want players to have and the type of players I want to see run through the banner, Watts is not one. He has said he doesn't know if he wants to play for the club. That's enough for me to want to get a decent trade going and forget about player attachment. It's time to move on as a club.

I think you'll find that the club is taking a different approach when it come to the development of players at VFL level. Taggert and Tynan played VFL all year with Taggert having some standout games but still being made to work hard and play consistently well for the Scorps. When Craig was was coaching Adelaide he would do the same thing. Players really had to earn their games by playing VFL for quite some time before given a taste. Whether or not that means Taggert and Tynan will stay, I'm not sure. I definitely believe that Taggert has more to offer than Tynan and I'd like to see him kept on the list. Don't believe that just because he hasn't played one game at AFL level, it means he is another Lucas Cook. The MFC need to be able to develop players at Casey and get them playing solid, consistent and confident football before blooding them, it's all part of the process of player development. We know we have done the complete opposite in the past. Giving youngsters games without instilling some of these necessary skills. With that in mind I'd want to delist the following over the next two years: Jetta Sellar Bail Magner Couch Davis Byrnes Gillies Tynan Nicholson Pederson I want to trade out the following over the next two years: Dunn Jamar Watts Sylvia (FA) Hopefully by 2014 we have a big injection of quality young players, a few more mature recruits and some handy free agents. With Roos and co we should be on our way to really developing a mentally strong and talented list of players. Most of the cancerous types will be gone.

What point point are you trying to make here P_Man? It's so damn irrelevant this 'hurt' you are talking about in losing Moloney and Rivers. One was considered a cancerous and selfish player who seemed to be having more of a negative effect on the young list and club than positive. The other was keen to play somewhere else after enduring many terrible seasons at the club. As RPFC has stated they may have made a couple of goals difference to our side this year. Is this the point you're trying to make? That's the hurt? Profound stuff.

Can't wait for Watts to go. Amazes me how little interest he displays on field.

I disagree again. We cannot continue to inject our club with mediocre players. Look what we've done with Byrnes, Rodan, Gillies and Pederson. We have Bail, Jetta, McKenzie, Nicholson, Magner, Couch etc. These players all lack ability. What makes you think Greenwood would be good for us? He can barely get a game at North and when he does he looks better because he plays with quality! Wake up! I don't care if we don't get an A grade established mid at the end of the year but I will be in a fit of rage if we keep topping up this shithouse midfield we have with more mediocrity! I am more than happy to keep finding mature age players who will change the habits of this list if and when they come along. Cross is the perfect player to target for that reason. Greenwood is a massive no.

Now here is the sort of player who WOULD make a difference to our midfield. (Unlike this ridiculous Greenwood talk) He is a team first, tough and very professional AFL player with the highest training habits and standards. I was lucky enough to meet him through a degree I was studying years ago and he is exactly the type of head down bum up personality we need to compliment Jones. He is the exact opposite of someone like Sylvia. He has no ego. He is a team player and much like Dawes and Clarke would help set training standards and habits. It's like injecting good bacteria into the club. Posters may question my views on Cross in comparison to Greenwood, (because he isn't highly skilled either) - But for the MFC, someone like Cross being around our young midfield would have a much greater impact on the development of our youngsters than that of Greenwood. And that's exactly what we should be looking for. Big yes for me.

I'll ask a question to the punters who are so keen for us to get him. Out of all of North's up and coming mids from the 20-25 year age bracket, why is it that he has had such limited opportunities to play regular AFL football over the past two years? Hint: It has something to do with ability... Why do people believe if we were to recruit him he would excel? I mean maybe he would excel at our club but what does that say about our own midfield? Are we adding quality to it by getting him to the club? I'm sorry but ya'll need to re-evaluate your standards. It's disgraceful.

I'm sorry but your post is hogwash. Greenwood is an extremely average footballer and I don't care that he got 38 possies against essendon this year. We need well rounded footballers, not one dimensional contested ball winners. He hasn't been getting a game because he doesn't do enough. Nor does he have the required skill to play the game. And this whole contested ball talk has been so over-exaggerated over this past year. Our players lack trust in each other to win their own ball. Our players are dumb. Our players lack confidence. Our players don't spread well. We have a lack of skill. There are a number of other contributing factors that amplify this 'we can't win contested ball' nonsense. Our midfield lacks in a whole lot of areas and players like Greenwood will end up in the VFL after a year. We wont be interested. I'll make the bet now. We need players who are skilled, tough and smart.

Maybe they will and maybe they won't. You're right in suggesting that some players will never change that mentality. I can't see Watts changing at our club just because of the complexities that I've touched on. I feel like both could benefit being at different clubs, and if we got a good pick for Watts, I would trust our recruiting staff to pick a player with the right attributes and that would be much better for the CLUB rather than the individual. We have a completely different recruiting dep. Too many people feel sorry for Watts and it gets in the way of understanding the bigger picture which is that this club needs massive change. Players will always come and go. Anyway, I'm not going to continue anymore. We'll see what happens. If you read my last post it will answer your question Maurie.

Tim. I see on your profile that you've listed 'psychology' as one of your interests. Check out a man by the name of Gabor Mate. He is great and has some very interesting things to say on conditioning.

You have nothing to base your argument on other than emotional attachment. You have no response. But by all means continue to make jokes, they're hilarious. Jesus christ. Are you ready? Watts and Yarran have psychological conditioning issues. The both of them. To varying degrees they both show a lack of intensity and sense of urgency when on the field. To varying degrees they are both not comfortable with physical contact. To varying degrees they they both lack confidence because of this problem. But that is the root cause and issue that they have in common with one another. Now when I made my first post about this whole Yarran/Watts comparison, it was before Watts had been on the footy show, expressing to the public of Australia that he doesn't know if he wants to play at our club or not. What does that tell us Tim? Well, it says to me as well as many others I have spoken to, that it may well be harder to develop him and have him overcome these psychological conditioning issues if he's not sure where he wants to be. It's not the only time that he's given away a lack of competitiveness. Remember the time he mentioned that losing doesn't bother him too much? I remember Jesse Hogan at his first press conference declaring that he hated to lose.. Now, I'm not discounting for a minute that being within the MFC environment for his entire career and being blooded as a marketing ploy for the club hasn't contributed to this lack of love and desire to play for the club. There may well be other issues you nor I even know about behind closed doors that have [censored] him off even more. Maybe even more of a reason why it would be harder to develop this mental weakness he has on the field? Now when it comes to Yarran, it's not all the same is it Tim? He has played for Carlton for the same amount of years that Watts has played at Melbourne. He has come from a completely different environment. He has never publicly stated that he doesn't mind losing. In my eyes, and in the eyes of many others I have spoken to, he is probably a little bit further ahead when it comes to possessing a bit of arrogance. He's shown a little more urgency I would say too on field, and it is only this year since Mick Malthouse has jumped on board as senior coach that it seems there's been a rift between them and Yarran is having a bad year. So Tim, there's your [censored] evidence pal, which suggests that it may indeed be easier to get more out of someone like Yarran coming from another club, rather than retain Watts and continue trying to re-condition him and work on the psychological aspects of his game. This runs deeper than just appointing a head coach. Most clubs and I'm sure the MFC are having Watts see a sports psychologist, but to date, I have only seen one game in which he was attacking the ball with ferocity and he looked like a completely different player for that quarter. I hope you're able to understand some of the things I've spoken about Tim. If you're willing to let go of this personal annoyance you have with me, you'll see through that red, and you will see that it all makes sense. x

I understand but there are players who need to work on kicking, and there are players who NEED to work on kicking. I rate Dangerfield as a decent kick. Anyway, I guess we'll soon find out. Good to know he hits targets.

EDIT - We need tough, hard and SKILLED players. The reason he is not getting a game at north is because he is missing that last attribute. Why fill the list with players who can win contested ball but not do much else? That's the sort of quick fix stuff Mark Neeld tried with Magner and Couch and both of them are the same sort of players as Greenwood.

Isolating one stat is the worst thing you could do to try and make a point and that stat definitely doesn't mean that Dunn is a good footballer. Without even glancing at this pointless stat, people have already said his strength in one-on-one contests is the only thing he's got going. How about looking at what the stats don't say or show? They're the one's that speak the loudest.

Some pretty impressive numbers for an individual who's team lost by 10 goals.

I'm not sure that his Dangerfield's bio stated so often that he needed work on his kicking but I'm happy to be proved wrong as I don't remember too well. As for Couch, I haven't seen him play. Is he explosive like Dangerfield? Does he have the same marking ability as Dangerfield and ability to kick goals often? Comparing Couch to Dangerfield. I can't say I've read that anywhere..

Yes you're right in saying that rating him higher than Couch or Magner isn't giving him high wraps. I'm just pointing out that they were two VFL players we picked up who are too one dimensional. Cain has got them covered in every other facet of the game. There are always VFL players who are better suited to AFL standard football who don't get picked up. I maintain that point of view as odd as it sounds. Just as players like Magner can win 50 possies in a VFL game and not do much at AFL level. Cain is the sort of player who is too classy for VFL but doesn't always dominate in terms of numbers. He is beautifully skilled and a smart player. Two attributes that our list lacks. He is 26 and like Terlich and Jones, would bust his gut to stay on the list. He is strong bodied too. We need to target players like him. Fresh minds. Willing to work hard. Not part of the 'boys club'. Yes I'm still playing footy in the Amo's. No we shouldn't be worried that he's a private school boy. I'm sick of this argument.

I just love these comments. I'd love to watch you and a Carlton supporter come to an agreement about who has proved less or more. Take your goggles off man. Wake the [censored] up. They both clearly have great skills and they both need to work on their psychological conditioning. The only difference is this. One has publicly stated that he doesn't know whether or not he wants to play for the football club you barrack for.

There is absolutely no point in arguing my point with someone like you. You have an emotional bias to the club and therefore Watts as a player which results in your refusal to take an objective perspective on an issue like this. This is also highlighted by the way you've changed my words. I never said Yarran has more talent and application than Watts and therefore is a better proposition. What I did say is that he, (like Watts), has talent and a great skill set but his mental application needs work so he can reach his potential. The reason I was arguing with people like you on this thread is because the same supporters that will give Watts the time for this mentality of his to change won't seem to give Yarran that opportunity. My view is that if we were to get Yarran for a fair deal, I would be all for getting him in because he has a rare set of skills and he could be a fantastic player if he develops the other side he so desperately needs. Now please tell your bf TimD to rack off also. This argument is over.

I'm with Jaded. He acts tough but he is a very weak player. Niggling is fine if you are also a decent player. Dunn isn't that. He's an extremely dumb, one dimensional player who enjoys an ego kick by playing niggling games with opposition players. He has absolutely zero leadership qualities and no sense of what it means to play for the team. As others have said, I am still surprised he is on the list. Another player who was a bad draft choice and all he cares about is the fact that he's an 'AFL' player. Many of our players are immature young men who are just happy to be high profile human beings playing football. It's like a little boys club. No drive to be the best. No desire or heart. Just cruising through life as an AFL footballer. Huge problem at our club. The more attitudes like Viney, Hogan, Dawes and Jones, the more competitive we become. I can't wait until he goes. I care about this club too much.

Well through a trade then. I don't mind which medium it's through. If there's a chance to secure someone and we are bettering the club then we should go for it.

And obviously picking up some bonafide stars from other clubs would speed the process up even more. I hope we can snag one or two through FA.