stevethemanjordan

It's a phenomenal get. Tyson is a monumental talent and has been in the system for a while. I rate him higher than Shiel and we've still got pick 9 for another great mid in the draft (hopefully). Great result MFC.

It all gets a bit hazy with the talk of ball winning ability. The fact that our players are low on numbers is not solely because they can't 'win their own ball.' I don't want to go there though. But let's just be aware of the fact that if we injected any big name mid into our side right now, their performance/numbers/ball winning capabilities would be no where near what they would have previously been.Having said that, I do agree that there could be better offers for our pick 2. I'm simply arguing that the reported offer of Buntine, Bugg and pick number 9 (which from what I understand in this draft will be a very handy player), is a pretty good fall back deal. If we do land Vince and Cross, (which I expect we will), that gives us two quality experienced 'ball winners' plus Nathan Jones who is turning into a genuinely quality AFL midfielder. Natural improvement from Viney and a rejuvenated and fit Trengove gives decent support. Then we have the following to develop: Michie Watts (if he plays midfield) Toumpas Pick 9 Howe Taggert Bugg Buntine Tapscott Barry Matt Jones and Grimes if he's not moved back That's a pretty good 'worst case' trade if you ask me, and we'll also have the opportunity to land a big fish next year as a FA. But I, like you would still prefer to land a big namer for pick 2.

I refuse to believe anything other than that comment being completely sarcastic.

They come from a side that were trounced every week. Obviously individual player numbers aren't going to be through the roof. Roos is renowned for his ability to develop players. It doesn't bother me that both have been groomed as defenders. They are both versatile and have played through the midfield before. I'm sure there are other offers out there that we may well go for but this trade is really not nearly as bad as some are making out.

Buntine was a number 5 pick and Bugg is a pretty solid player if you ask me. It ain't like they're offering two fringe players with pick 9 for our pick 2 so I don't know why you see it as madness. Both have the capacity to be very good players, and both can easily be moulded into midfielders. As for Shiel, I don't share the same love. Yes he's developing well but I don't hold him in the same regard. If I had a choice between the two, I'd be taking the Bugg, Buntine and pick 9 deal over the Shiel straight swap. There are a plethora of mids in this draft, many rated highly and I'd be confident that pick 9 would net us a great mid who under the tutor-ledge of Roos would be able to develop into a star. Spot on.

Lolsies.We wish.

Entitled to his opinion, I just don't share it!As for Shiel, I'm actually not quite sold on a straight swap for pick 2. I rate the guy, but I reckon we can do better. The poster who came up with the three-way with Collingwood saying something about us receiving Sidebottom plus two top 10 draft picks sounds delicious.

Can't say I agree.The guy just doesn't have the physicality you want in a guy his size nor does he have any quality 'outside' ability. He isn't fit, isn't fast and his foot is by no means a weapon. Plus, where exactly will he fit in next year? Sure he can fill a spot when a couple go down but in my eyes he is nothing but an emergency player with a big body. Roos will be developing some players sure, but I can't see Pederson being one.

Apologies. Can't delete that post for some reason. Here's to a brighter future for Viv and the MFC.

Listen. You either give a muther hucking link with your post, or you don't post at all! ^

You're right that he'd be more consistent than Sylvia, and that's thanks to how hard he works both ways. Something that Sylvia wouldn't do.Vince is a gut runner and whilst he doesn't have that 'X factor' or perhaps aerial ability that Sylvia would occasionally show, he'd be a fantastic replacement. He'd set a great standard at training as well, something else Sylvia found hard to get his head around. More influential and inspiring for our kids, and that's what we want. More of 'em! I'm still crossing my fingers.

I'm sorry but if you're drawing parallels from Michie and Magner, you clearly have little idea of the situation.I'll just bundle you in with the ignorant group who keep quoting; ' He's only played one AFL game in three seasons.' For those ignorant folk who don't know much about his situation, here's a little blurb, which will hopefully give some context for all you negative nellies. Firstly, Michie's first opportunity to play with full fitness and a body that could handle the demands of playing football was this year, a year in which we saw Freo make a grand final. His first two seasons were injury plagued and so were spent trying to get his body right. Much like Grimes for us. Effectively, this year and the 2013 pre-season was the first he had. He made one appearance against Geelong this year and I watched it. While he didn't dominate, one could see that he has some wonderful attributes and skills. Between an injury hiccup early on and then a knee injury toward the tail end of the season, Michie managed to play 16 games for Peel Thunder in the WAFL and he took out their Best and Fairest for the year. Forgive the guy for not being able to break into a grand finalists midfield for the year. If he'd pushed one of Hill, Mundy, Barlow or Fyfe out we'd be talking about the next young Judd. But we're not. Nobody is. It's obvious to many, (but maybe not to you naysayers), that clubs with strong lines and lists and a strong footy department will have a strong development program for their kids. Especially kids that have to date, really struggled to get on the park. ie - Viv Michie There are many players within the AFL and especially from strong clubs, that haven't been blooded early on and have had to spend considerable time in their VFL affiliate sides preparing themselves for a smooth transition into the AFL sot hey can become comfortable in their own ability, so that they can learn team ethos and structures, so that they can develop their body. There are many reasons. Unfortunately this is a luxury the MFC haven't been afforded due to the weak list it has had and the mismanagement of the club as a whole. Bailey's era of 'giving games to the kids' may have put some questioning into the minds of posters who are wondering why oh why Viv has managed one game. It's not common practice to gift kids games, I can assure you. Nobody that I've come across is categorising Michie as being a future star or anything of the sort. However, what some of us can see, is that there are players out there on many AFL lists who are not getting games either because of injury or because they can't quite break into a side because they're young and still developing their game and the team are very strong across that particular line. Or! A mixture of both. This fits for Viv. Michie isn't like Greenwood where he is not getting games due to his lack of ability. Freo rate him alright. I remember a young Steven Motlop playing inconsistent football for the Geelong two's a few years back. I remember Josh Kennedy not being able to crack a game for the Hawks because of their star-studded midfield. There are plenty of things to be excited about if we land this player. Especially now that we have Roos. Go dees

And be ego, I mean fear, insecurity etc..

I'm certainly guilty of the perhaps unfair criticism. It just amazes me that one player can look like two different players so easily. One that has ability, and one that doesn't or had lost it. I'm coming to learn that confidence plays a bigger part in every facet of the game than I previously thought.. I'd hate to imagine what Jack Watts could be if he could tap into that confidence that is hiding behind his ego. Same goes with many young players one our side. That will be one of Roos' challenges.

It's crazy to think about how long ago that was, but I remember the beginning of that 05 season so vividly. He started unbelievably well after having a pretty decent year prior to. Round 1 against Essendon he annihilated James Hird at the G for Broady's tribute game. The next two against the doggies and cats I remember his form being unbelievable. Then came round 4 and the commentary box were speaking of Bruce's 'brownlow' form. The ball was bounced, Brucie was the first player to touch the ball, and as soon as he did, Brent Guerra smashed him to the turf and that was the end of the Cameron Bruce of those days. It's as if that broken collarbone absolutely shot his confidence from that day on. Was never able to play to that level for the rest of his career. He used to play with such arrogance and every possession he won turned to gold. Ahhhh nostalgia...

Great news

It's sounding positive isn't it. I'll be pretty excited if we get this fella.

I understand why yourself and others may have come to that conclusion but in my eyes, it was part of the 'change' Neeld and co were trying to bring. All strong sides have fantastic development programs in place and I think for Rory, they wanted him to be playing consistently well in the VFL before he got his turn because he's had injury interruptions and obviously hasn't played a game. RP is right in saying that we've been guilty in the past of gifting games, and as we have come to learn years down the track, it's a recipe for disaster when you add in all of the other negative factors that have contributed to where we are.Even though I wanted him to play by seasons end, I'm now glad he didn't play. I hope he's hungry for next year. He played some pretty solid games for Casey toward the end of the season and from what I saw he looked pretty confident out there by years end. And that's what we want. We want our kids to be confident at the level they're playing before they're given games. I believe Rory possesses some really handy qualities and I reckon if we blood him at the right time, he'll be a player. I reckon it's all mental with Rory. Similar to Watts.

I'm sorry but comparing him to Pederson is absurd. Viv is a 21 year old midfield/half forward who has been deprived of AFL matches because of injury. This year was the only year he got a decent pre-season in and performed consistently well at WAFL level to win the B&F for his side. I'm sure there are a few reasons he wasn't gifted games in Freo's side but it's obvious from an outsiders point of view that they have a strong performing midfield which would be hard to crack into for a guy who's probably been told he needs a solid block of games in the seconds. The best clubs in the league with the strongest development programs never gift their young players games. They ask them to play specific roles in the two's and get them playing consistent, team first footy. Pederson is a 25-26 year old position-less spud who the Roos clearly didn't want to hang on to and Neeld and co stupidly signed for three years. They are completely different players who weren't getting games for completely different reasons and they are 4-5 years difference in age.

I don't mean to speak ill of young Jodie, but lord help the club if he is a 150 + game player for us... We should be trying to improve our midfield as a club, and as a supporter of the club you should start raising the bar when it comes to judging a player's ability.

I can categorically state that Viv is a better than McKenzie. I'll add Bail, Matt Jones, Magner and Evans to that also. The guy is a player.

As for the player himself. If we do land him, I've got that fantastic feeling that he could seriously be a massive get for us down the track. He went late in the draft due to injuries and he's had an injury interrupted first three seasons. Managed to put in a decent pre-season for the 2013 year and ended up dominating for his WAFL side and winning the B&F. If that doesn't excite some people, I'm not sure what will. I'm not counting my chickens, but I've seen the guy play and if he can stay on the park from now on, I'm sure he will do some damage wherever he ends up.

His skills are elite and always have been. It's strange, some players mature so early and others seem to plateau and not perform at their best at under 18 level which ultimately dictates whether or not you'll be drafted. With someone like Terlich, he has obviously been given a second chance but to me he seems so comfortable on the field with the ball in his hands. I see Cain in the same light in that respect. I believe Cain's skill set and his footy smarts will mean he'll perform better at AFL level. As funny as it sounds.

Still not hearing much about this guy and I hope he is plucked up with one of our later draft picks. I'm not joking, this guy is very classy and reminds me of Sam Mitchell. Cain has the same sort of vision and smarts in close and can use the footy really well. He is a solid body and I rate him higher than Matt Jones. I'm sure he'll get picked up but he would be absolutely perfect for us. Hardened body and a really smart and skilled player. He is a gem waiting to be unearthed.

Gysberts was never an elite user of the ball and neither were the other three you've mentioned. It's strange you think they were. Yes and no. It's an interesting one. In my eyes, the reason Hawthorn are such a dominant force is because they have a a fantastic balance of players who can both play tough, hard contested footy and use the ball extremely well. They are also very disciplined and hard working which is inspired by Clarko and leaders such as Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis. It's not one without the other. If you look at their list, they have a plethora of left footers who they deliberately recruited for their sublime skills. But these same players are also contested ball winners. If a core group of a squad possesses a strong blend of both attributes then you're laughing. Having Guerra, Suckling; (although injured) and Birchall setting up play is an unbelievable luxury. These three, (especially Guerra and Suckling) can slice teams zones apart with their ability to execute a kick and hit a target amongst a zone of defenders. Birchall is generally a smart user as well and having Lake and Gibson as their two 'guerrilla' minders is a luxury cause they can both use the ball well too. Their midfield core and rotating mids on average have great skills too. Mitchell, Hodge, Rioli, Lewis and Burgoyne are all great uses and win their own pill. Sewell is their only mid who is predominately a ball winner who doesn't possess the same kicking skills. Hill and Smith are runners who don't display the same blend of attributes as others mentioned above but they are perfect wingers who gut run all day providing countless options. Hill is an elite user but obviously isn't a contested ball winner. Smith is a pure runner who doesn't possess the same foot skills and isn't a pure ball winner but wins enough ball on the outside to be a weapon. Then you've got their twin towers in Buddy and Roughy who are extremely damaging when on song. Although Franklin had a quieter day yesterday, some of his pressure acts in close for a big guy were pretty impressive. He was throwing himself around a lot. They've got their third tall in Gunstan who's a deadeye-[censored] in front of goal. A manic forward pressure specialist in Puopolo and a great blend of half forwards/pockets who have the running ability to go through the midfield when needed. Breust, Shiels, Whitecross and Savage (when he gets a gig). These players are all goal kickers with decent skills and can also win their own ball. What amplifies and really gets these guys playing at their best is confidence and camaraderie. They play team first football, play for each other and the jumper. They're extremely well drilled. Melbourne lack in many of these areas and we all know why. It's a contribution of many factors but I'm excited about what Paul Roos + a beefed up recruiting and player development team, an injection of some quality mids and another crack at the draft can do. We're a long way a way. But watching a team like Hawthorn develop from the list they had a decade ago really gets me excited about what could transpire for us over the next period of time. Go Dees