Gator

Love this result. Swans are rubbish and a team above us loses. Perfect.

I didn't write the following, but it also needs to be shared. Don't bother sharing it with a leftist, as there's no hope for them, but for a normal centrist there's much to learn about Islam. Q on: The Islamisation of Australia. Process, Methods & Tactics. Islam is a totalitarian ideology veiled in religion. Under that veil is also a comprehensive system of laws, politics and socio-cultural rules being promoted and applied under the guise and protection of religious freedom. This religious front acts as a 'Trojan Horse', whose aim is to make Islam the dominant cultural, legal, political and religious force in Australia. The process outlined below can be likened to the “boiled frog syndrome”, wherein a frog is put into cold water and as the temperature rises very slowly, the frog doesn't notice until it is too late and the frog is boiled. So how does the Islamisation process work? Stage 1: The Religion of Islam spreads As a missionary religion, Islam has a strong doctrinal mandate to spread worldwide and impose its Sharia laws. And freedom of religion in free, democratic countries enables Islam to fulfil this mission. It must be noted however that freedom of religion, exercised in free countries, is not actually a feature of Islam itself, which has no separation of religion and state, and calls for the execution of Muslims who choose to leave Islam. Changing ones religion is not just considered a sin, but a crime against the state, which is why it is akin to treason and punishable by death. It is this unity of religion and state in Islam that runs contrary to the spirit of the Australian Constitution and why Islamic missionary activity threatens the foundations of Australia. Not only is the religious veil cast over Islam's system of law and governance, it is also cast over historical figures like Abraham, Moses and Jesus; who are presented as Muslims. Yet despite serious core differences, the appropriation of such figures emboldens Islam to present itself in Australia as an Abrahamic faith. A somewhat upgraded version in the same theological suite as Judaism and Christianity; when actually it undermines and even ridicules both. As it gains legitimacy by making such claims and the Muslim population rises quickly through unrelenting migration and high birth rates, parts of Sharia law and Islamic courts are demanded by self-imposed Islamic community leaders, so that Muslims can observe their religion. But this is where Islam reveals that it is actually more than a religion and begins challenging Australian law and the core value of 'one law for all'. Now the temperature starts to rise. Stage 2: Sharia Law is established At first, Islamic courts operate to handle seemingly innocuous matters such as family disputes where Islamic doctrine applies to Muslims only. However, as Sharia law is discriminatory by nature and upholds behaviour which secular Australian courts would criminalise, this clearly leaves some Muslim Australians vulnerable to injustice. In Britain today, there are examples of non-Muslim men taking a family dispute to a Sharia court because of the better deal they are likely to receive. In Australia there are already calls to legalise the practises of polygamy and FGM, although already practised, because Sharia allows this. Veiling the face is another issue always close to the surface, as is segregation in prayer rooms, toilets, swimming pools and other public buildings. There is a huge social cost to imposing Sharia standards quite apart from segregated communities. Europe is experiencing a rape epidemic for starters due to the perception that under Sharia law a Muslim man is immune from punishment for raping a non-Muslim woman. This is not unfair speculation, the former Australian Mufti, Sheikh Hilaly, confirmed this when he called uncovered women "cat's meat". And the calls for more and more aspects of Sharia law will continue, all under the guise of “freedom of religion”. The temperature is rising faster now. Stage 3: Political Islam is established Muslims will not submit to man-made laws such as those made in a democracy if they feel they can change the system of government including through civil unrest and armed struggle. And there is more bad news - Sharia law is not just for Muslims but must be imposed on everyone throughout the entire country as the world belongs to 'Allah' and his laws must prevail. So the ultimate aim is domination through Sharia law. As Dr Mark Durie says, "domination is hard wired into Islamic texts". We have the example in Iran in 1979 when the Shah was deposed with violent uprisings. Today we already have no-go Sharia zones in Europe. In the southern provinces of Buddhist Thailand and the Catholic Philippines rages a hardly reported brutal fight of Islamic fundamentalists against the indigenous population. In 1,400 years Islam has spread from Arabia halfway around the world and subdued many tolerant cultures. It is important for all Australians to understand that history has shown the Islamisation process will lead to violence and civil disorder. At this time, our democracy, our freedoms, our law and our way of life will have gone. The frog has been boiled! Islamists know that free and open western societies like Australia, which embrace multiculturalism and political correctness, are ripe for exploitation. Through excessive tolerance, our own civilised traditions, norms and values are being questioned, mocked and then eroded whilst being replaced with backward cultures and foreign behavioural norms which are not critically examined or questioned, but by default feted, embraced and celebrated. As a consequence our society has now become almost defenceless against those who utilise the religious and cultural elements of their alien ideology as camouflage and carrier cells for their socio-political agenda. The philosopher and scientist Karl Popper foresaw this tendency in 1945: “…Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.” The only way to prevent Islamisation is to prevent the introduction of Islamic Sharia law in any form.

So if they can be proven you'd agree there's an issue ? I acknowledge you're desperate to hold the view these things aren't true, but what if they are true ? Nah, don't bother replying. As I said, leftism is a mental illness. Conversing with you and other leftists is an utter waste of time. Whereas I'm a conservative who can readily disagree with other conservatives leftists fight for a side and not a principle. The most disingenuous addle-pates ever put on this planet.

Any country that knowingly starts filling up their society with middle eastern Muslims has fools for leaders. How cohesive do you think society is when the Muslim population reaches 10% ? Sweden is the rape capital of the world. France has 750 "no go" zones. You left-wing lunatics will be the death of the West. But, of course, that's what many Israel-hating Leftist loonies want. America has a similar Muslim population to Australia, so the below content is just as relevant here. 51% of Muslims living in the U.S. this June (2015) told Polling Co. they preferred having “the choice of being governed according to Shariah,” or Islamic law. 60% of Muslim-Americans under 30 told Pew Research they’re more loyal to Islam than America. • Muzammil Siddiqi, chairman of both the Fiqh Council of North America, which dispenses Islamic rulings, and the North American Islamic Trust, which owns most of the mosques in the U.S.: “As Muslims, we should participate in the system to safeguard our interests and try to bring gradual change, (but) we must not forget that Allah’s rules have to be established in all lands, and all our efforts should lead to that direction.” • Omar Ahmad, co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the top Muslim lobby group in Washington: “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Quran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.” • CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper: “I wouldn’t want to create the impression that I wouldn’t like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future.” • Imam Siraj Wahhaj, director of the Muslim Alliance in North America: “In time, this so-called democracy will crumble, and there will be nothing. And the only thing that will remain will be Islam.” • Imam Zaid Shakir, co-founder of Zaytuna College in Berkeley, Calif.: “If we put a nationwide infrastructure in place and marshalled our resources, we’d take over this country in a very short time. . . . What a great victory it will be for Islam to have this country in the fold and ranks of the Muslims.”

The mental illness bit is just a personal opinion. It's not scientific, although ... If you like, you can pretend that bit isn't there.

I've done quite a lot of research on the Qur'an, Islam and the Hadiths. I've also researched Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims and it's fair to say they hate each other. Most leftists fight for a side and not a principle and most are utterly clueless about Islam, so there's little point debating the ignorant. Israel-hating leftist weirdos are Islam's great enablers. The useful idiots. Here's a quick 101 lesson on the Left: The Left want to tear down western civilisation, because they think it’s unequal and radical Muslims want to tear down western civilisation, because they think it’s evil. One side wants to be a caliphate and the other wants to be a communist utopia. The reason that the Left invariably ends up siding with the world’s worst human beings in every situation is because of their fundamental principle that equality of outcome is all that matters in life, equality of outcome means that something just is happening. The Left believes that less successful people are more virtuous. That means that the non-virtuous in their eyes are more virtuous. The left sees those unsuccessful less virtuous people, who are generally not doing good responsible things, as victims, so they must be helped. They see the Muslims in the middle east as the victims of Israel. And they’re the victims of Israel, because Israel is rich. The Muslims are not rich, so they must be victims. No-one is a better person when they’re poor. No-one is a better person when they’re rich. Wealth is just a measure of how many voluntary exchanges you’ve engaged in in a free market. The ideal for the Left is that all inequality is evil, therefore the people at the top who are unequal are evil and the people at the bottom are virtuous. That's a quick 101 lesson of leftism, which I believe is a mental illness. They are nearly all incredibly stupid, many are the totalitarian fascists they think they're railing against, and most are absorbed in identity politics. But hey, they protect the downtrodden, so they're virtuous, right ? No, just thick as bricks.

How valuable would it be for Viney and others to spend a preseason watching a 4 time premiership pro go about his business ? What value do you put on his intellectual property ? The value of being able to talk to him about his experiences and how he witnessed a club win a flag 3 years after they won 5 games for the year ? I've been disappointed with his output, but I have zero doubt he's got some good footy left in him in 2017. And unlike others, I don't dislike him, so perhaps my views aren't clouded from the outset.

Thanks. Chinese whispers, as evidenced on this thread, are never accurate.. It sounded unlikely that Watts would give them the bird. Watts standing close to the fence with his arms raised and a big grin on his face is far more in Watts' DNA. And if Watts really did flip the bird it's unfathomable that not one Collingwood supporter has actually said "Watts flipped the bird at us". Thanks for clarifying. Although I hasten to add, posters will be reciting the supposed fact that Watts gave the Collingwood cheer squad the bird post game on QB 2017 for years to come.

I've been disappointed with his foot skills and physical presence, but I acknowledge his leadership and he's a versatile player that can go behind the ball, into a centre square stoppage, or even push forward. Perhaps he's feeling his way with new teammates and a new game style. I reckon he's got some good games left, but he's not someone I'm expecting to be in our top 4 or 5 players. On Monday in the last quarter he directed Oliver to move his positioning at a centre square ball-up. Oliver did and it resulted with a clearance (long kick into the forward-line). So while I've been disappointed and expected more, I'm still glad we have him and doubt he's one of our major issues. Lewis is well down the list of any concerns I might have.

He even made a comment in another post that they thought he might have even played the week before QB. That's when I knew he was a liar. He hadn't even returned to any form of outdoor training. He needs a block of a couple of weeks to be ready.

Oliver with votes from 8 games out of 11. And every time in those 8 matches he's been awarded votes from both coaches. I can't be bothered trying to work it out, but I'm virtually certain he would have again considering the breakup of votes for QB.

Mitch Hannan crushes Dunn's ribs with that bruising clash in the last. Fun fact: We drafted Mitch Hannan with one of the picks we swapped when we traded Dunn to Collingwood.

Favourite moment: Watts sealer was all class and very poetic. The look on his face after he kicked it was priceless. It was like it eradicated years of pain. Really pleased for him.

Ash35 is a superstar and we're lucky to have him. An Essendon supporter for the newbies. I can't remember the first Ash 'number' incarnation (his age), but others will. The stuff he's done on Robbie is legendary and I can't thank him enough.

Without checking my facts I believe Carlton had 8 x top 10 draft picks running around today. 4 pick 1's - Kreuzer, Murphy, Gibbs, Weitering Pick 2 - Thomas (spud now) Pick 3 - Ploughman Pick 6 - Marchbank Pick 10 - Sumner Charlie Curnow was pick 12 and Cripps 14. That's ten players inside pick 15. Add Simpson and Docherty and the nucleus for a decent side is there. They need more midfield depth.

You're insuperably stupid. And idiots get put on ignore. Congrats.

I keep saying there are no decent teams this year. Anyone who makes the eight is a chance.

It's important for people to read the following: An Egyptian woman under the pen name Magda Borham wrote a letter to Western countries, warning them of their immediate danger from Islamic invasion via “immigration.” And she has a brutal message for Americans. Having lived in Egypt for more than 30 years, she states: “Nobody else in the world knows Islam and the mentality of Muslims more than those who have suffered by having Islam as a part of their life. “If you listen to the cries of the Copts of Egypt, the Christians of Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Pakistan and all the other Muslim countries, you will hear the descriptions of the horrors of Islam. “See and feel the tears of the minorities in every Islamic society. These tears will tell you the true stories of Islam. Hear the blood of the ex-Muslims pounding. It’s their blood that is shouting out every single second, asking the rest of the world to ‘Wake up!'” She clarifies what few Americans understand: Islam is not a religion. Islam is a totalitarian political ideology that rejects the basic principles of freedom and liberty protected by the U.S. Constitution. In fact, Islam is the clearest and most present danger to America’s existence. She explains the suffering of minorities, including herself as a woman who has lived through Egypt’s transformation into an Islamic country. She writes: “Like so many others, I have been burned by this transformation. This transformation has seen me witness and experience Islam turn my home country to ruins and its followers are now threatening to bring the same fate to your own country. “Islam is a supremacist, racist political and social ideology wrapped in a thin peel of religious rituals. It seeks domination and supremacy over all other systems and religions. Islam is worse than Nazism and fascism systems combined without any doubt.” She warns Americans that they will suffer the same fate unless they end the senseless immigration policies that are enabling Muslims to freely invade with the intention of destroying America from within. She points to decades of failed liberal policies that have eroded American values, which she argues Muslims are using against Americans to their own detriment. Her message is brutal and straightforward: “Muslims use your own democratic laws and values against you, and they do it successfully while you keep sleeping as if as in a deep coma. This is why the leftists are the people who are worthy of the title ‘useful idiots.’ They are in a perpetual state of shame and self-loathing and will be the first victims of Islam once it takes over. “Muslims use them as a stick to beat you with, but even they will never ever be accepted as friends to the Muslims after, and they will definitely be their first victims. Leftists, liberals, progressives, Antifa, Code Pink and so on are all appeasers of Islam. Appeasing evil is cowardice. They are fooled people who feed crocodiles, hoping they will eat them last. They are the enemy within your countries. “Your country is like your house; you expect visitors who come to your house to respect you and respect your rules, not the opposite. Visitors must appreciate your kindness and your generosity for receiving them into your home and not imposing their own rules on you. This is your house, you own it, so you have the obligation to protect it and defend it. If the visitor doesn’t like your rules, all he has to do is to leave. Nobody obliged him to visit you, and nobody will prevent him from leaving. As he came to your house by his own choice, he can leave your house freely or by force, if required.” And she notes that Islam is rooted in racism and bigotry. The labels Muslims use against non-Muslims (Islamaphobic, bigot, racist), she says, are actually a reflection of Islamic ideology. Islam is the only religion/ideology that specifically orders its followers to kill Jews and Christians, an obvious hate crime. “One final thing you must be aware of. Muslims are projectors of themselves. They accuse you of what they truly are. They accuse you of being racist, while they are themselves racist. Islam is all about racism. They accuse you to be a hater, while they themselves hate unconditionally. Islam is full of hatred incitement and violence. They accuse you of being a bigot, while Muslims act supremacism and are bigotry themselves. “Remember, Muslims love and need to portray themselves always as ‘victims.’ This is their greatest weapon against you in the west. Victimhood enables them to act violently and give them the pretext to attack non-Muslims around the world. It fuels them more and more with hate. “This hate generates more violence. Additionally to this victimhood allow them to silence you and stop you from resisting their agenda. This is why the easiest thing for them is to label those who criticize Islam or reveal its reality as ‘racist’ an ‘Islamophobe’ or ‘bigot.'” Now Jara, I doubt this will resonate with Leftists, because they (you) support a side at all costs, rather than a principle, but to anyone else who cares about their children and their country they'd do well to understand that Islam is evil and won't stop until their population in the West grows to a level where their dominance cannot be curtailed. I hasten to add there are moderate Muslims who just want to live in pace, however, as Christopher Caldwell notes: “The Muslim community is not to be confused with the terrorists it produces. But left to its own, it probably lacks the means, the inclination and the courage to stand up to the faction, however small, that supports terrorism.” The moderates know ISIS is acting out the literal meanings from the Qur'an and hadith, which is why they say little. We're importing people from Middle Eastern countries where over 80% agree with stoning for adulterers and death to apostates. It's utter madness. To Islam the Left are useful idiots, unfortunately they're helping to put our own citizens lives at risk. As for your silly question re muslims feeling resentful to the West ? Islam wants sharia to dominate the world and whether you're nice or mean the objective remains the same. You really need to school yourself on Islam.

He did the right thing when he was on the boundary. He didn't "turn it over".

Petracca talks like he likes a big stage. He's had a week off to freshen up the bone bruising to his knee from a few weeks back and hopefully he steps things up on Monday. He's the type of player that can make a huge difference if he plays 4 quarters, which I'm yet to see.

Here's the deal. If Wagner emulates that performance at AFL level he doesn't get dropped.

Yeah, Maynard is aggressive, a great size, and really gets involved. Dished off some really good handballs. There's a bit to tidy up, but looks a prospect. Wagner better than VFL level and Weideman grew in confidence.

Nasher wasn't making an assessment on the validity of Steve's opinion or otherwise, moreso the needless futility of you telling Steve that's "your opinion", something Steve was almost certainly aware of.

There was a thread re Riewoldt v Brisbane/Scott Brothers many years ago. A fun read if it could be found. I think Riewoldt was captain at the time. I remember a young skinny Buddy Franklin being targeted at the MCG. The hype re Watts playing was so ridiculous I remember Harry O'Brien (sweet prince) saying he'll be able to tell his Grandkids he played against Watts in his first game, although he was obviously taking the ****.

The whole Watts getting stuck into on his QB debut game is as overrated as it gets. It was nothing. Michael Gardiner from West Coast was actually tormented in his first game.