deanox

I disagree with this. When we see our happen once we question on field leadership, but the 2, 3, 4 etc to me is clearly playing group effort. Roos job is to get the team up, but that doesn't mean he has to get these guys up. If he addresses the issues off field by trading out players and bringing new leaders in then he is doing his job. So it's up to him to fix this over summer. We have a [censored] last with no leadership. You can't change that in a week. He will have done a fair job in 3 years and by year 4 it will be Goodwins job to get us to perform on field.

If Roos thinks he can be turned around i reckon weer can get him for unders. He is exactly what we need on field. And i feel like we have a pretty good off field culture right now that may be able to absorb a little bit of this. Relocation can do wonders for behavior. Up to Roos though.

Yeah i reckon well aim for finals which is 12-13 but if we finished with 10-11 and improved competitiveness i wouldn't see it as a failure.

Yep. It's our best season since 2011 on both wins and %. We are on track to continue improving. The big difference is, this time we have a stable off field set up - stable footy dept., a stable board - as well as we have removed a lot of the poor on field culture and it's leaders that we were carrying. When I look at the contracts list in the rpfc thread, other than those out of contact this year, M Jones and Terlich are the only players in contact after this year who I think must be moved on to improve the list; everyone else has upside, and people will sit on either side of the fence for those players. After this end of season list turn over we will be looking at having a bit of list stability for a couple of years. We have young talented kids. The big question is are our senior leaders good enough to get us through until the young leaders are ready? We are on the right track for 2017 to be a genuinely competitive team. Next year, 8-12 wins but you never know, we might get lucky. We are on track.

We're back! What a bloody win!

All the stats point to us being 4-5 goals up. And watching the game I'd agree. The difference has been the 3-4 goals they have got direct from free kicks.

Lots of goals, anyone able to provide a score update please?

Who will take second ruck duties today?

I'm sorta with rpfc pb this. His thread has been a gold mine and he updates regularly with references!

Agree completely there are two issues: 1) will he make it from here and 2) should he have been drafted. Most importantly i think these issues are unrelated and should be discussed separately. On 1) I gave reasons why I thought he was worth hanging on to. Thesehave nothing to do with draft position. That doesn't mean I believe he'll definitely make it but imo he has more upside than an unknown pick 80+ we'd get off he was delisted. Does he have trade value? I doubt it. I wouldn't pay for him if I wanted him, I'd take for free as delisted FA or in the PSD. Or late swap of picks to get the deal done. On 2), a) who cares, we already did. b) with hindsight yeah others are better. c) clubs will continue to draft the players they think will be the beat AFL player whether that player needs development or will make impact. You draft kids to be the beat available, you draft mature players or trade off you want immediately impact. Old Dee, in isolation i agree with your content "he isn't performing at VFL like a pick 4 should" but earlier this year he was doing fine. Either way, unless the argument is "he isn't performing enough at VFL to justify a contract extension", is it relevant?

That is completely fair enough. If you don't think he can make it, then that is the basis for your call. If the footy department agree they won't extend his contract. I'll back Roos and co and their experience to make the best percentage call. But your suggestion that "we shouldn't give him a contract because we need immediate impact players", and old dees comment about him not performing as a pick 4 should is not relevant unless his he is implying that this is a reason that he thinks he'll never make it.

BB. Taking personality out, what we have is: A young, highly talented player Who runs hard Who trains hard Has the right attitude and approach Is a good kick Is a smart footballer Who has not, at age 21, put it all together on the field. There may be reasons why he had not put it together on the field, including: -Double hip surgery during first preseason -Thrown to the wolves in his first season in arguably the worst season a club has had in modern football, before he was ready physically or mentally -Poor quality coach in his first year -Change in coach/football department at end of first year -Appendix out in his 2nd year -A couple of untimely concussions in his third year He clearly has an issue with confidence in his own abilities which he will need to overcome to make it. But he had also clearly shown that he had the tools and attributes to make a player at AFL level. Unless we think we can get better value with a late draft pick (who will younger - and thus less likely to impact in 2016 than Toumpas), there is clearly upside to giving him time to come good. If he doesn't become a regular best 22 by 2017 he is out the door. But a 4th year is not unreasonable given what we had shown and what some of his obstacles have been.

BB you make a fine argument for drafting ready made players in this year's draft. But your argument doesn't hold any weight for not giving Toumpas (who is already on our list) further time to develop. Each year there are a handful of players in the draft who make an immediate, significant impact. Last year we got 2 but unfortunately Petracca was injured. Regardless of what we agon for, we'll only ever get a couple of new draftees have significant impact while the rest will need time to develop. Toumpas is one of them.

Thanks Crossy for the service. I think it's the right call but we'll miss his clean strong hands overhead, especially floating across HB. I toothy he maybe could have gone again - even with deterioration I still think he'd be capable of a handful of games next year when needed, but it is hard to carry players like that, especially when you will have a bunch of kids, and Trengove returning from injury. So probably the right time.

Is he worth pick 5? Maybe it is slightly overs but the benefit of immediate day one impact of a career peak midfielder to the MFC list may be worth more to us than just his usual market value. I'd consider pick 5 for Redden with a sweetener in return (their second round for our 3rd round? Their second round for our 2016 2nd round - which gives us more power to tiebreaker the list over this year). They are going to want players though, with all the defections. And they have cap space. Straight swap for Howe?

100% incorrect. Watch it again. Another melbourne player (I believe it was Viney) let Jack Steven run from the centre to that forward flank without chasing. The Toump got stages towards the play as they had an overlap - Stevens ran past and got the ball to bomb it forward. When Toump tried to cover the loose man, Montagna, being the player he is, made position elsewhere. No other melbourne player was ready or willing to help and Montagna was left free. In fact, Viney was jogging a few meters away from Montagna at the time of the right angle bounce. It was his team mate who didn't run hard enough first up, nor did he pick up the spare opposition player who effectively ran past him in our D50.

Seriously, the runner did not affect the play at all then.

The dogs current form is driven by the young players who Macca developed for 3 years. Surely his influence has a large bearing on how those players are performing now? We argue that Neeld stunted the development of our players, this they need more time. If you subscribe to that you also need to acknowledge that Macca gets credit for development at the dogs

So what does the MFC do next week? Pick the strongest team possible or let a few of the kids go back to Casey to play finals? Give Jamar a farewell match or let him play finals?

I think you are confusing developer and head coach. The word is that McCartney is well respected for his ability to teach and develop young players - just look at how he brought on that list that is now performing so well. That doesn't necessarily translate to great communicator with senior players - it is clear he struggled in that area. Going on the above, he has found a perfect role as player development coach.

If we are resigning him for 2 years I'll be a little surprised. Not because we think there is something to work with and that we've decided to back him in (i can understand why we'd do this although I'd also understand it if we cut him). But I'm surprised it gets done now, with 1 week to go. He is clearly down on confidence and i can't help but feel if we thought he was worth backing for 2 years, that doing so 3 months ago may have been a boost for him and his performances. He has struggled for confidence since the saints game. Maybe we hasn't decided but as pointed out above it isn't like his form has triggered this decision and swayed the coaches. Maybe the decision was made based on other players i.e. finally decided to cut someone else instead so Toump keeps his spot.

An extension until 2019 is enough for me. It ends any short term speculation. If we haven't come good (and by that i mean be regulaly competitive and playing a final or two) by the end of 2017, Goodwin is going to be under serious pressure in 2018. To have Hogan locked in for 2019 will mean over less distraction that year. If we aren't challanging in 2019, Hogan may as well go and so should we. Pumped by this article!

Hey i didn't say the system was perfect! But that extra information does allow us to differentiate between a player who leaves the list and is now available and a player like frost.

Because he was out injured this week but is now available. I think it is so that payers don't just drop off the list and then everyone asks questions.

For me this nails it. We all know that the players aren't going in hard or working enough on field. The coach can but do his best, but it is up to the players. We all know that this list has struggled for a decade so it isn't a surprise that it will take note than 2 years to fix like the saints or dogs potentially did/might. The only option is to give the coaching staff time to get it sorted. Not 2 drafts.