What qualifies as good?

Is being in the top ten of a team to probably finish outside of the eight good?

I think it does and I think Miller should come good this year.

It has taken a while, if it does happen but at pick 55 I think he is better value than two players who dont cop the same derision and went much higher in the draft and have been around as long or longer.

Wheatley.Bell.

I dont reckon you have ever played football at any real standard.

Anybody who denigrates a good ordinary footballer like that doesnt sound to me like he has any real dash.

2 incorrect statements Franky. For starters, this has nothing to do with me. And the fact that you deem miller as a 'good ordinary' footballer just shows that you have no idea what ur talking about. He is probably the top 3 worst players in the league, given his age, game time given and total matches played.

In his 7th season as a forward, and with stints down back:

- He has never averaged more than 0.6 goals per game(13 goals in 1 season)

- Never averaged more than 1.7 tackles per game.

BUT

- He has averaged a whopping 9.45 possessions per game from 2002-2007.

Find a worse player in the comp. He makes Prestigiacomo look like Silvagni.

It's definitely not Miller time.

Will have no place in our next real crack at a premiership unless Zimmer frames are allowed on the ground.

Enough said. No trade value so delist asap.

Theres a new team forming in Brads old backyard...might be worth a trip home !!

Was very disappointed that Frawley didn't make the team.

I'd rather him than Yze, given he can play down back and can also fill a hole on the wing/ half-back flank.

Definitely needs game time to show us what he can do.

brad miller should be up there in the class of j.brown he is strong big has the best hands going around a good leading forward, there is only one thing that he lacks to be a good footballer he cant kick, this is the fault of his father who is the high performance coach at under 16 level in Queensland, he did not teach brad how to kick to a target or at goal he kicks like a man who has never played the game. They have to take him away and teach him how to kick, he needs to practice his kicking just hour after hour on kicking, if they can fix his kicking then he will became a very good chf, but if he cant fix his kicking then delist him. in life if you do the simple thing right then you are half way there to becoming good at what you do in life

Best hands going around?

Can't remember him ever taking a pack mark, if he can't beat his man on the lead he's not much chop

He is probably the top 3 worst players in the league, given his age, game time given and total matches played.

For player who was a draft pick #55 and has managed to play around 90 games of AFL, he is far from the worst.

In fact there have been a truckload of top 20 picks during the same time that have not played a third of the games Miller has.

Miller is an honest ordinary footballer. He is nowhere the worst. Your pathological contempt of him shows your shortcomings up way more than what Miller might have.

Franky nailed you in one. Analytical crud.

For the record here are some bigger duds taken earlier in the draft who neither had the ability, character and perseverence to play AFL.

1 9 Luke Molan Geelong Falcons Melbourne

1 10 Sam Power Oakleigh Chargers Western Bulldogs

1 11 Richard Cole Eastern Rangers Collingwood

1 14 Ashley Watson Bendigo Pioneers Kangaroos

1 15 Barry Brooks Tasmania Mariners Port Adelaide

2 20 Daniel Elstone Bendigo Pioneers Hawthorn

2 23 Charlie Gardiner Sandringham Dragons Geelong

2 25 Steven Armstrong Perth Football Club Melbourne

2 26 Aaron Rogers NSW/ACT Rams Melbourne

2 27 Tom Davidson Geelong Falcons Collingwood

2 28 Mark Powell Murray Bushrangers Sydney

2 30 Rod Crowe Sandringham Dragons Kangaroos

2 31 Joel Reynolds Geelong Falcons Essendon

And if you really want to sink the boots, you might want to do a check on the "best" from the 2003 draft that have already underperformed big time. If you are looking for worst dig in deep here. Even the top picks are just footballers.

1 6 Kepler Bradley West Perth Football Club Essendon

1 7 Kane Tenace Murray Bushrangers Geelong

1 9 David Trotter Calder Cannons Kangaroos

1 10 Ryley Dunn Murray Bushrangers Fremantle

1 11 Beau Waters West Adelaide Football Club West Coast Eagles

1 12 Ryan Murphy Gippsland U18 Fremantle

1 14 Fergus Watts Sandringham U18s Adelaide Crows

1 15 Troy Chaplin North Ballarat U18s Port Adelaide

1 16 Josh Willoughby Glenelg Football Club Sydney Swans

1 17 Billy Morrison Tasmania U18s Collingwood

1 18 Llane Spaanderman East Perth Football Club Brisbane Lions

2 20 Sam Butler Central District Bulldogs West Coast Eagles

2 21 Alex Gilmour Tasmania U18s Richmond

2 22 Cameron Thurley Tasmanian Devils Football Club Geelong

2 23 Matthew Moody South Fremantle Football Club Brisbane Lions

2 24 Chad Jones Claremont Football Club Kangaroos

2 25 Harry Miller Port Adelaide (SANFL) Hawthorn

Are you claiming all the players in that list are duds?

Are you claiming all the players in that list are duds?

They are either duds or low grade performers that have been no better in performance than Miller especially given their prized draft ranking.

You could argue the toss on one or two but by no means is Miller the worst particularly given the prized draft picks given up on other players who have crashed and burned.

Duds or no better in performance than Miller especially given their draft ranking.

You could argue the toss on one or two but by no means is Miller the worst particularly given the draft picks on other players who have crashed and burned.

I guess you havent seen Brent Reilly play much

I have edited Reilly out.

Does not change the point.

I guess you havent seen Brent Reilly play much

Or Beau Waters/Sam Butler

get rid of miller and carroll

Or Beau Waters/Sam Butler

wats so good about sam butler?? wat has he done

From what I've seen from him he looks as though he'll be a good footballer.

First game I ever saw him play he got 30 touches playing on Glenn Archer, had a few injury worries but managed to play in a premiership side.

Rhino, a lot of the players you've mentioned would also be skating on thin ice and many may be gone within a couple of years (or are gone)

and didn't Troy Chaplin average about 20 touches a game as a CHB last year?

From what I've seen from him he looks as though he'll be a good footballer.

First game I ever saw him play he got 30 touches playing on Glenn Archer, had a few injury worries but managed to play in a premiership side.

Rhino, a lot of the players you've mentioned would also be skating on thin ice and many may be gone within a couple of years (or are gone)

and didn't Troy Chaplin average about 20 touches a game as a CHB last year?

I'll repeat it for the slow.....

You could argue the toss on one or two but by no means is Miller the worst particularly given the prized draft picks given up on other players who have crashed and burned.

Also Shannon Motlop played in a premiership side......it does not make him a capable AFL footballer though

Obviously at the time it did (Motlop), and if you look at Butler's stats he averages close to 20 touches a game, and is 2 or 3 years younger than Miller

This bloke should NEVER go near the backline ever again...he is clueless... Brad...you do not try pack marking on backlines, you punch !!..Its that simple !! probably beyond him though !!

some one buy him a bus ticket to Qld...please !!

Truth is that he has shown himself time and time again that he cant win a contest in the F50. Hence he has to get cheap touches up on the centre wing.

Sandy. Despite him having more leadership nous than most, he is just an ordinary footballer.

Has he been tried leading out from the goalsquare? The wing would translate to the 50 metre line. His kicking whilst still alarming is now OK as far as accuracy goes for set shots. I agree with the pointless of a chest-level mark on the wing.

Personally, I say he should have been played at CHF his whole career. Unfortunately, one good game against Barry Hall has meant a career of switching ends each week, to the point where he hasn't settled down in either. One thing that yesterday proved though is that he is not a defender. I feel as though we have wasted something in Miller.

Sandy reserves

The reality is that while Miller is not the greatest player to ever pull on a Melbourne jumper, his attitude and personality represents the values that Bailey holds close to his heart.

It is for that reason alone that Miller will continue to get a game, in the short-term anyways. At least he is selfless, and team oriented and 100% committed. When everyone is playing badly, it is those who try hardest that get rewarded.

Besides, he is kicking the ball now and he actually hits a target more often than not, so please show him some love! :D

Please play him at CHF this week Bailey, let him prove himself there

I'd recruit Waters in a second... but your point is interesting RR.

Besides, he is kicking the ball now and he actually hits a target more often than not, so please show him some love! :D

Now he just needs to lower trajectory and halve the time his teammate is exposed !!. But was astounded when he kicked consecutive balls.. . thought I was halucinating !! lol