Probably too early in the season to grumble and cry over spilt milk, but I am concerned that Alwyn Davey was not considered good enough to even Rookie, after he did a pre-season with us.

We must have had so many football experts ( coaches, recruiting staff, football department etc ) look at him during the pre-season, yet he was not considered good enough try as a Rookie. We went instead for Gianfagna and some others whose names I forget, none of whom I think are still with us. Essendon picked him up and we know the rest.

When his brother was picked up by us WJ and myself were screaming on this board to take Flash and we were lucky to get him as a Rookie. I remember years ago telling people at the club that a delisted player of the Dockers could play and we should look closely at him. He was taken by North after we were not interested, he is Peter Bell.

The point of this post is that I am not a recruiter yet feel that I have a fair understanding of AFL football and what seems fairly obvious to me ( that a kid can play ) is not seen that way by professionals. I have many other examples but won't go on about it.

Suffice to say I am disappointed that we seem to have had first crack at a speedy talented player, with a brother at the club and for some reason he is at Essendon.

Suffice to say I am disappointed that we seem to have had first crack at a speedy talented player, with a brother at the club and for some reason he is at Essendon.

But didn't we get Andre Gianfagna instead?

Probably too early in the season to grumble and cry over spilt milk, but I am concerned that Alwyn Davey was not considered good enough to even Rookie, after he did a pre-season with us.

We must have had so many football experts ( coaches, recruiting staff, football department etc ) look at him during the pre-season, yet he was not considered good enough try as a Rookie. We went instead for Gianfagna and some others whose names I forget, none of whom I think are still with us. Essendon picked him up and we know the rest.

When his brother was picked up by us WJ and myself were screaming on this board to take Flash and we were lucky to get him as a Rookie. I remember years ago telling people at the club that a delisted player of the Dockers could play and we should look closely at him. He was taken by North after we were not interested, he is Peter Bell.

The point of this post is that I am not a recruiter yet feel that I have a fair understanding of AFL football and what seems fairly obvious to me ( that a kid can play ) is not seen that way by professionals. I have many other examples but won't go on about it.

Suffice to say I am disappointed that we seem to have had first crack at a speedy talented player, with a brother at the club and for some reason he is at Essendon.

Over the past half dozen years, our coaching staff (not recruiting officers) have had a fixation with a particular type of player. Maybe that was the year when we were looking for hard bodied midfielders. Sometimes it seems that coaches or recruiting staff can focus on the negatives of a player if they're not the prototype of the modern footballer (6ft 2 massive engine). Peter Bell definitely doesn't fit the prototype.

As you say, we're all armchair experts, but my gripe that year, was that in what was considered a bumper draft, we only had 3 picks, and Warnock was elevated off the rookie list. That was the year when we needed to cull, but players like Ferguson, Godfrey and Bizzell were still under contract. Poor list management i'm afraid.

Us and 15 other clubs, including Essendon. He was completely passed over that year. Did you consider the possibility that maybe that year, he just did not show enough to get drafted? It wasn't until he spent another full year in the SANFL that he got picked by Essendon.

It was a missed opportunity but to say it was "obvious" is rubbish. If it were that obvious he would have been taken when he first nominated.

We invited him to train with us the year before he was drafted and it was deamed that his weaknesses were more than is strengths.

Enough moaning about not getting Alwyn there have been so many threads about us not drafting him.

Do some research on past threads on both Land and 'ology and you will find numerous posts outlining the reasons as to why we didn't pick him up to start with

It was a missed opportunity but to say it was "obvious" is rubbish. If it were that obvious he would have been taken when he first nominated.

I said what seemed "fairly obvious to me". That does not of course mean it is "obvious" to everyone else.

Us and 15 other clubs, including Essendon. He was completely passed over that year. Did you consider the possibility that maybe that year, he just did not show enough to get drafted? It wasn't until he spent another full year in the SANFL that he got picked by Essendon.

It was a missed opportunity but to say it was "obvious" is rubbish. If it were that obvious he would have been taken when he first nominated.

Nice to read some fact combined with a good measure of common sense.

If we could select our list based on hindsight, we'd have the best 40 in the land, and be premiers every year!

Let's be honest our recruiting over the last 10 years has been ordinary at best we have recruited too many similar type players and now we are paying the penalty. It's all well and good to say that everyone has missed on some players but we have missed out on a swag more than the other top clubs. I won't do the statistics but when you see clubs that have remained at the top and are still recruiting better than us you wonder what the hell is going on.

I am beginning to have doubts about the three that we picked up as bottom age players, Bate, Dunne and Newton, they have not set the World on fire with Bate seeming to be a bit slow Dunne in and out of the side and Newton imo a bit soft. We have the worst ruck set up in the comp apart from White who is ageing and no one capable of roving to him anyway. Whether we win or lose the tap we usually don't get the clearance. We have not picked up one star player in the last 10 years and the only player we have that even approaches Franchise status is David Neitz who is close to retiring.

So when we didn't get Alwyn Davey why do we seem surprised?

Let's be honest our recruiting over the last 10 years has been ordinary at best we have recruited too many similar type players and now we are paying the penalty. It's all well and good to say that everyone has missed on some players but we have missed out on a swag more than the other top clubs. I won't do the statistics but when you see clubs that have remained at the top and are still recruiting better than us you wonder what the hell is going on.

I am beginning to have doubts about the three that we picked up as bottom age players, Bate, Dunne and Newton, they have not set the World on fire with Bate seeming to be a bit slow Dunne in and out of the side and Newton imo a bit soft. We have the worst ruck set up in the comp apart from White who is ageing and no one capable of roving to him anyway. Whether we win or lose the tap we usually don't get the clearance. We have not picked up one star player in the last 10 years and the only player we have that even approaches Franchise status is David Neitz who is close to retiring.

So when we didn't get Alwyn Davey why do we seem surprised?

Spot on.Should be pinned up.

Get ready for a good old fashioned lynching Robbie.

It always amazed me that people on demonland pumped Craig Cameron up so much. Never could really work that out.

It always amazed me that people on demonland pumped Craig Cameron up so much. Never could really work that out.

We do seem to be very light on for tall power forwards and class ruckmen. We could do with a 196cm strong mark who's also very mobile. Trouble is that blokes like Buddy Franklin don't grow on trees.

Like everyone else said, the second Davey's brilliance wasn't apparent until the season just before he got drafted. Unlike Aaron who worked his arse off from day one, Alwyn took a little while to get serious and lose his puppy fat. From my faded recollection it was a work-ethic question when they didn't take him.

They're basically the same player... The only reason Alwyn is creating a bit of a stir is because he plays for Essendon. That's it...

His start to his career was a long LONG way away from being as compelling as Aaron's. Aaron has accomplished more, and does more damage on a far more regular basis...

Personally, I think it's wise to look at him like any other player. If another club gets lucky and picks up a good rookie who plays 100-200 games, then good luck to them. We've had our fair share too...

In retrospect I recon once he'd PROVEN he had the work ethic, anyone would have taken him below about pick 30 or 40... including us. But to get him before the Dons that year we would have missed out on Frawley or Petterd... Which would be NUTS.

So we got Aaron for basically nothing. And he's verging on a star. Would walk onto any list. Alwyn was taken for a second round pick... And he's a mature player (more or less). As far as I'm concerned we're still way out in front in the Davey debate... And don't let anyone tell you any different.

While I think Aaron is a very good player, we dont really need another in the same mold.

Then why recruiet Wonnaemerri?!!!

Then why recruiet Wonnaemerri?!!!

And why not recruit Sampi?

The question with Alwyn was not recruiting him instead of Frawley or Petterd it was why didn't we take him as a rookie for NOTHING?

The question with Alwyn was not recruiting him instead of Frawley or Petterd it was why didn't we take him as a rookie for NOTHING?

Presumably for the same reason nobody else did, whatever that may be. The fact that nobody else took him for "free" (and while he was training for MFC every other club would've had just a good a look as we did) is a pretty good indication that there was probably more than meets the eye.

Presumably for the same reason nobody else did, whatever that may be. The fact that nobody else took him for "free" (and while he was training for MFC every other club would've had just a good a look as we did) is a pretty good indication that there was probably more than meets the eye.

Nash I'm not concerned about anyone else, we had him we could have secured him and we let him go. What the other teams do is irrelevant.

We have taken Maric in the draft to play as a small forward, can't see the logic.

I watched a fair bit of the training over the summer of 2004-5 when Alwyn was trying out. Quite frankly, he showed absolutely nothing during those sessions which would warrant even a rookie selection. Disinterested, no evidence of the freakish pace of his brother, and nothing "magical" about him that would make you say: "maybe this kid has something worth looking at for the future...". Remember we took Aaron as a rookie gamble, again only after virtually every club had passed up on him.

Our position about Alwyn was no different from the assessment made by 15 other clubs, including Essendon.

To his credit he went to the SANFL for a year and absolutely blitzed the competition. It was no surprise when Essendon then jumped at the first opportunity, especially given the ageing, slow list that they have.

Finally, is there room for 2 of this type of player on the field? Probably not, unless you wish to forgo a mid-fielder or forward.

Yes he will do well at Essendon. He isn't as good as Aaron, and he probably wouldn't have made it at our club regardless.

I watched a fair bit of the training over the summer of 2004-5 when Alwyn was trying out. Quite frankly, he showed absolutely nothing during those sessions which would warrant even a rookie selection.

I concur. I saw him a few times at training and was very underwhelmed. He fumbled, had poor disposal, and just looked out of his depth.

He's transformed himself and much credit to him.

And why not recruit Sampi?

Because he's not the same type of player as Davey. Neither is Maric. It's not a simple case of recruiting a small forward. The Daveys are a specific kind of player... Davey relies on his out-and-out brilliance because he's just not big enough to be an AFL player on paper WITHOUT his brilliance. We've seen this in finals, where his physicality becoms a liability. Wonaemerri is similar in that he really is tiny. Hence my point about "why recruit Wonaemerri."

The question with Alwyn was not recruiting him instead of Frawley or Petterd it was why didn't we take him as a rookie for NOTHING?

Like I said... And others have said....

Alwyn, in the year he came to us as a rookie, was like Aaron, only without confidence, pace, skill, and with a bit of extra baggage. He just wasn't as good.

In the year that presumably some coach got in his ear and inspired him, EVERYONE had seen him on foxtel playing in the SANFL and rated him as a HUGE chance to get picked up even in a superdraft year. You asked your question, and we answered it thus... the question is not why didn't we take him for nothing, that's been answered. The question is why didn't we take him when it was apparent he was a quality player? The answer is there were other players rated more highly, that I STILL rate more highly.

Your point about the fact that the recruiters should have been able to tell he was a good player is interesting, but in the end, they could just as easily have been criticised for picking him up, particularly if he didn't play any good footy in his forst two years. At the time Gianfagna had confidence and perhaps a more sound football background. It was probably the smart choice... I reckon I would have done the same thing.

We do seem to be very light on for tall power forwards and class ruckmen. We could do with a 196cm strong mark who's also very mobile. Trouble is that blokes like Buddy Franklin don't grow on trees.

True enough...tall power forwards dont grow on tree's...and yet Lachie Henderson "the big boy from Birregurra" was happy enough to go to the Dee's and we passed up on the opportunity...barring serious injury I think we will rue missing out on him for a long time to come...future AFL captain!

P.S. I'm not having a go at Cale Morton...is just that high quality CHF types are as rare as rocking horse poo!

Because he's not the same type of player as Davey. Neither is Maric. It's not a simple case of recruiting a small forward. The Daveys are a specific kind of player... Davey relies on his out-and-out brilliance because he's just not big enough to be an AFL player on paper WITHOUT his brilliance. We've seen this in finals, where his physicality becoms a liability. Wonaemerri is similar in that he really is tiny. Hence my point about "why recruit Wonaemerri."

Like I said... And others have said....

Alwyn, in the year he came to us as a rookie, was like Aaron, only without confidence, pace, skill, and with a bit of extra baggage. He just wasn't as good.

In the year that presumably some coach got in his ear and inspired him, EVERYONE had seen him on foxtel playing in the SANFL and rated him as a HUGE chance to get picked up even in a superdraft year. You asked your question, and we answered it thus... the question is not why didn't we take him for nothing, that's been answered. The question is why didn't we take him when it was apparent he was a quality player? The answer is there were other players rated more highly, that I STILL rate more highly.

Your point about the fact that the recruiters should have been able to tell he was a good player is interesting, but in the end, they could just as easily have been criticised for picking him up, particularly if he didn't play any good footy in his forst two years. At the time Gianfagna had confidence and perhaps a more sound football background. It was probably the smart choice... I reckon I would have done the same thing.

You and others have made your assessment and I have made mine, but there must have been something there for us to invite him to training in the first place. I find it difficult to believe that he was that bad one year and so much better the next. We lack speed in the midfield and if we had a player like him it would enable us to release Aaron in to a more prominent role there, I’m not suggesting that he is a better player only that he is a player we could use.

With regard to the recruiters, they have made many mistakes and this was just another of them, the players we have picked and the players we have passed on will tell you this. Why did we continue with Nico for so long without trying to replace him, we still haven’t, Carroll cannot handle the Gorilla Forwards that some clubs have, why do we still have Jamar as our second option ruck when he is clearly not up to it? We don’t have a genuine clearance player and yet we passed on Sam Mitchell who is the best in the business, we took Molan Armstrong and Rogers in 2001 and look at who we missed. None of those players are still with the club.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_draf...amp;t=N&s=P

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_draf...amp;t=N&s=P

You and others have made your assessment and I have made mine, but there must have been something there for us to invite him to training in the first place. I find it difficult to believe that he was that bad one year and so much better the next. We lack speed in the midfield and if we had a player like him it would enable us to release Aaron in to a more prominent role there, I’m not suggesting that he is a better player only that he is a player we could use.

With regard to the recruiters, they have made many mistakes and this was just another of them, the players we have picked and the players we have passed on will tell you this. Why did we continue with Nico for so long without trying to replace him, we still haven’t, Carroll cannot handle the Gorilla Forwards that some clubs have, why do we still have Jamar as our second option ruck when he is clearly not up to it? We don’t have a genuine clearance player and yet we passed on Sam Mitchell who is the best in the business, we took Molan Armstrong and Rogers in 2001 and look at who we missed. None of those players are still with the club.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_draf...amp;t=N&s=P

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_draf...amp;t=N&s=P

These sort of comments are ridiculous, and purely hindsight drafting.

For starters, dozens of kids get invited to training, and the clubs make an assessment of based on what they see. Can't you grasp the fact that maybe Alwyn Davey realised, after training with us, that there were facets of his game that he needed to improve? All credit to the kid for his improvement.

Secondly, after a stellar TAC Cup season, Sam Mitchell was overlooked by every club, and wasn't even rookie listed. After a great season at Box Hill, the Hawks drafted him with a pick in the 30's. Again, well done to him for proving ALL the recruiters wrong.

These sort of comments are ridiculous, and purely hindsight drafting.

For starters, dozens of kids get invited to training, and the clubs make an assessment of based on what they see. Can't you grasp the fact that maybe Alwyn Davey realised, after training with us, that there were facets of his game that he needed to improve? All credit to the kid for his improvement.

Secondly, after a stellar TAC Cup season, Sam Mitchell was overlooked by every club, and wasn't even rookie listed. After a great season at Box Hill, the Hawks drafted him with a pick in the 30's. Again, well done to him for proving ALL the recruiters wrong.

Well if you are happy with our drafting over the last 10 years then what can I say.

You happy with our Rucks?

You happy with our Backline?

You happy with our forwards?

I'm not.

Once again I will state, I don't care what other clubs do or do not do I'm concerned with what we do and I would have to say it's not much.

Well if you are happy with our drafting over the last 10 years then what can I say.

You happy with our Rucks?

You happy with our Backline?

You happy with our forwards?

I'm not.

Once again I will state, I don't care what other clubs do or do not do I'm concerned with what we do and I would have to say it's not much.

I wont say that I am happy with those areas but all of them have vastly improved in the last couple of years with the drafting that has happened.

Backline: Bell, Frawley, Martin, McNamara, Petterd, Rivers have all shown some promise that could prove to be a very good back line in time

Rucks: PJ has improved this year and although we still lack that A-class ruckman (White pre-circle rule changes) Meeson has shown some good things

Forwards: Juice, Davey, Sylvia, Weetra, Dunn, Bate, Maric all have talent and when joined with the experience of Neitz and Robbo could prove quite lethal pending on the delivery of the forwards which was the main problem last year

While I am at it

Midfielders: McLean, Bartram, Buckley, Jones, Moloney - That is a very young midfield if you add PJ or Meeson as the number 1 ruckman but has the making with three proven in and unders with two outside receivers with natural pace and skills. Then add the fact that there are numerous players that can fill in from the backline and forward line as well as unproven but with great potential in Grimes and Morton.

To say that our Drafting in the past 10 years has been abysmal is partly true but the past couple of years has been very good that should prove to be the core group in the next couple of years. Our under 26 list is ver strong with a lot of talent. Even our Under 20's list is promising with the last couple of Drafts. Remember Jones has only turned 20 and is almost the number 1 midfielder and maybe even playing as it the past couple of weeks.