8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Everyone can see it, why is it not being fixed?

9 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

They are 3-4 years away at least.

Langford can start attending centre bounces next year, Lindsay and Windsor can pinch hit as well. They may be 3-4 years away from starting to hit their prime but they can definitely compete in the middle and use the ball better than our current crop (bar Kozzie).

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Everyone can see it, why is it not being fixed?

Langford can start attending centre bounces next year, Lindsay and Windsor can pinch hit as well. They may be 3-4 years away from starting to hit their prime but they can definitely compete in the middle and use the ball better than our current crop (bar Kozzie).

I think the point is that more needs to be done. Yeh, two draft picks from last year who both use the ball well is great.

But we need to start actually making some ground on teams in this area and make some more difficult calls on some senior players who are just not cutting it.

We are going nowhere if we put the same names on the park next year.

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Everyone can see it, why is it not being fixed?

Langford can start attending centre bounces next year, Lindsay and Windsor can pinch hit as well. They may be 3-4 years away from starting to hit their prime but they can definitely compete in the middle and use the ball better than our current crop (bar Kozzie).

I think its poor take from Hird and focussing on a weakness that really isnt there. We get more than enough clean entries, the whole issue is knowing what to do with them. Focussing on 'shape' is a rabbit hole that leads nowhere. (Even in that clip, we get a clean exit)

Langford and Lindsay will be good. Please no to Windsor. Zero left foot, below average handball, doesnt win contested ball and for a guy that gets majority of his possesions uncontested his disposal is below average. This notion he is a good ball user simply doesnt show up in the stats or the eye. Like a golfer that has a good swing, can hit a huge drive but no consistent iron or short game....

Edited June 15Jun 15 by Jjrogan

4 hours ago, Bang Bang Bang said:

You can’t just get rid of core players because they aren’t as good as they used to be. Who plays midfield in their place? Are Bailey Laurie and Trent Rivers going to get us out of the doldrums are they?

Keep both.

Bailey Laurie the 23 year old VFL player? Almost certainly not.

Trent Rivers the 24 year old premiership player who was our best midfielder post-bye last year? Yes. He's a good chance at it.

8 hours ago, GS_1905 said:

They are 3-4 years away at least.

We are no longer in the "win now" situation. We must move on from the 2021 premiership window.

In our poorer games it seems the same deficiencies come out from all three bigger mids.

Tracc arguing with Oliver after the game was weird considering he had his own issues yesterday.

It's no surprise that our midfield balance looked off again with Viney coming back in the side. We really need to make a hard call and trade out one of him, Oliver or Trac and get some better ball users in there.

17 minutes ago, Norm Smith's Curse said:

In our poorer games it seems the same deficiencies come out from all three bigger mids.

Tracc arguing with Oliver after the game was weird considering he had his own issues yesterday.

Arguing? They were having a chat.

Not everything is a drama.

12 hours ago, Jjrogan said:

I think its poor take from Hird and focussing on a weakness that really isnt there. We get more than enough clean entries, the whole issue is knowing what to do with them. Focussing on 'shape' is a rabbit hole that leads nowhere. (Even in that clip, we get a clean exit)

Langford and Lindsay will be good. Please no to Windsor. Zero left foot, below average handball, doesnt win contested ball and for a guy that gets majority of his possesions uncontested his disposal is below average. This notion he is a good ball user simply doesnt show up in the stats or the eye. Like a golfer that has a good swing, can hit a huge drive but no consistent iron or short game....

I was at the game yesterday and it was clear as day that they murdered us around the contest with their shape and method.

This happened all day.

We didn't want to switch the ball or enter out into the corridor from congested ball situations.

We just continually tried to handball back into congestion and not try to set up a clear way out through to the fat side.

We are definitely the worst team at converting our opportunities inside 50 from set shot and open play scenarios.

Absolutely embarrassing how far we have fallen.

Petracca is far more disappointing. You half expect what we’re seeing from Clarrie. I think Clayton would be the one i’d keep, especially post Viney.

I wouldn't be upset if both were not at Melbourne in 2026.

Trac looks frustrated

Clarry looks disinterested

24 minutes ago, Norm Smith's Curse said:

In our poorer games it seems the same deficiencies come out from all three bigger mids.

Tracc arguing with Oliver after the game was weird considering he had his own issues yesterday.

Firstly its not a big deal. Don't let the media hype hoover you up. They happen with all players every week across all teams.

From the body dynamics though, it did appear that Trac was giving some feedback to Oliver and Oliver was playing the old card of "what, me?" and was either not aware of the issue or didnt take any view that he was responsible. I find it amusing given all the stink Trac kicked up over pre-season and yet has failed to deliver anywhere near his capability. Perhaps that is a harsh take on somebody that nearly died.

Right now Trac, Oliver, Viney are all liabilities. Read that again. Go back to end of 2021 and ask yourselves whether this was ever going to be a possibility. im simply amazed at the downfall.

I don't offer any solutions, but changes are needed and the longer we continue down this path having faith that these guys will turn it around the longer we will suffer.

Trac is worried about physical contact, and that is completely understandable given what he's been through. He was never going to be the same after that horrific injury that almost cost him his life.

But that being the case, we need to change his role because you can't be an inside mid and avoid body contact.

1 hour ago, KozzyCan said:

It's no surprise that our midfield balance looked off again with Viney coming back in the side. We really need to make a hard call and trade out one of him, Oliver or Trac and get some better ball users in there.

Viney won't be traded.

It will be one of Oliver or Petraca

30 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

Firstly its not a big deal. Don't let the media hype hoover you up. They happen with all players every week across all teams.

From the body dynamics though, it did appear that Trac was giving some feedback to Oliver and Oliver was playing the old card of "what, me?" and was either not aware of the issue or didnt take any view that he was responsible. I find it amusing given all the stink Trac kicked up over pre-season and yet has failed to deliver anywhere near his capability. Perhaps that is a harsh take on somebody that nearly died.

The news.com article of this was in my feed this morning and I honestly thought it was something from Betoota. It really seems like jumping on a flavour of the month subject, news suggested that they had to be separated, like the fists of fury were seconds away from flying.

It was a robust conversation with no team destroying body language, when the team is playing this poorly I'd expect a few more of those conversations to be honest.

3 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Viney won't be traded.

It will be one of Oliver or Petraca

I know he won't and I'd keep him as he is a leader and we have very few of those.

Would move on Oliver ahead of Petracca. Petracca has a higher ceiling and if all else fails can play as a forward. Oliver and Viney do the same thing.

Just now, KozzyCan said:

I know he won't and I'd keep him as he is a leader and we have very few of those.

Would move on Oliver ahead of Petracca. Petracca has a higher ceiling and if all else fails can play as a forward. Oliver and Viney do the same thing.

Oliver to Essendon, and pray we can get our pick back?

13 hours ago, GS_1905 said:

They are 3-4 years away at least.

It's not all or nothing. But we need to start transitioning into the next era.

1 minute ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Oliver to Essendon, and pray we can get our pick back?

Delusional

Just now, Greg Schneider said:

Delusional

Hope is all we have 😅

6 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Oliver to Essendon, and pray we can get our pick back?

We'd be lucky to get a second rounder back tbh. Think we might just have to cut our losses at this point even if we have to pay some of his contract. We had an opportunity to get a first rounder back the past couple of years but we stuck fat. It will hurt a little but not as much as persisting with the same tired old formula. The team needs to move on and think about our long term future.

58 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Trac is worried about physical contact, and that is completely understandable given what he's been through. He was never going to be the same after that horrific injury that almost cost him his life.

But that being the case, we need to change his role because you can't be an inside mid and avoid body contact.

Interestingly, Trac has had more contested possessions and tackles than his same number of games last year. He might be shirking pack marks but inside CBA hes shirking no contest. He's also still a top 30 player rating and top 20 score involvements player for a bottom 4 team. His stats are actually very similar to last year to when we were flying except we arent winning games and his clanger rate is materially higher. (Correlated). A large reason we won the 2021 finals so emphatically is he went into God mode with his disposals for a month. We need that back desperately.

11 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

Interestingly, Trac has had more contested possessions and tackles than his same number of games last year. He might be shirking pack marks but inside CBA hes shirking no contest. He's also still a top 30 player rating and top 20 score involvements player for a bottom 4 team. His stats are actually very similar to last year to when we were flying except we arent winning games and his clanger rate is materially higher. (Correlated). A large reason we won the 2021 finals so emphatically is he went into God mode with his disposals for a month. We need that back desperately.

A point shouldn't be classed as score involvement.

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

Arguing? They were having a chat.

Not everything is a drama.

Isn't it interesting that you're the one using that word?

29 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

Interestingly, Trac has had more contested possessions and tackles than his same number of games last year. He might be shirking pack marks but inside CBA hes shirking no contest. He's also still a top 30 player rating and top 20 score involvements player for a bottom 4 team. His stats are actually very similar to last year to when we were flying except we arent winning games and his clanger rate is materially higher. (Correlated). A large reason we won the 2021 finals so emphatically is he went into God mode with his disposals for a month. We need that back desperately.

Agree his work around the contest is fine. He’s just not interested in marking the ball if it leaves him in a vulnerable position which is understandable but reduces his ability to play forward roles as well as previously.