The Draft Pick Upgrade Thread

[DeeSpencer 24,955]

16 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You do realise every draftee has faults and deficiencies that will need improving coming into an AFL system right..

Sure, but Jason Taylor’s never drafted a small mid unless you count Laurie.

Draper has a good solid frame and some strength but if he’s not rated as a good ball user he better be a great inside player, not sure he is.

Jagga’s small, light frame, doesn’t break lines with pace, doesn’t have a dangerous kick. What’s his weapon? Nice balance, nice hands, runs hard but most AFL players do that.

It’s less about weaknesses and more about lack of strengths. JT’s early picks have generally targeted guys with rare traits.

[adonski 11,059]

13 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Sure, but Jason Taylor’s never drafted a small mid unless you count Laurie.

Draper has a good solid frame and some strength but if he’s not rated as a good ball user he better be a great inside player, not sure he is.

Jagga’s small, light frame, doesn’t break lines with pace, doesn’t have a dangerous kick. What’s his weapon? Nice balance, nice hands, runs hard but most AFL players do that.

It’s less about weaknesses and more about lack of strengths. JT’s early picks have generally targeted guys with rare traits.

I think Baz Laurie was originally drafted as a small fwd/flanker

He was given the Chandler treatment at VFL lvl and allowed time on ball - fair enough

But then, inexplicably, some of those midfield minutes carried over to AFL level too

[DeeSpencer 24,955]

11 minutes ago, adonski said:

I think Baz Laurie was originally drafted as a small fwd/flanker

He was given the Chandler treatment at VFL lvl and allowed time on ball - fair enough

But then, inexplicably, some of those midfield minutes carried over to AFL level too

In fairness to the coaches he’s rarely played afl midfield because they don’t trust his contest work. But is too slow to get pressure on as a forward.

Agree he was drafted as a forward, that’s why I said ‘unless you count Laurie’

[dazzledavey36 53,343]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Sure, but Jason Taylor’s never drafted a small mid unless you count Laurie.

Draper has a good solid frame and some strength but if he’s not rated as a good ball user he better be a great inside player, not sure he is.

Jagga’s small, light frame, doesn’t break lines with pace, doesn’t have a dangerous kick. What’s his weapon? Nice balance, nice hands, runs hard but most AFL players do that.

It’s less about weaknesses and more about lack of strengths. JT’s early picks have generally targeted guys with rare traits.

Think you need to actually take the time to.watch these kids..

It hasn't stopped the likes of Nick Daicos dominating from day one with his light frame? Daicos was only 73kg when he was drafted and Smith is about similarly weight and exactly same height.

Zac Butter who Jason Taylor tried desperately hard to trade up for in the 2018 draft is another similarly to Smith plays.

One of his biggest strengths is his kicking and ability to break the lines and motor himself to each contests.

Just one small example why this kid has been rated a genuine top 3 propsect for the best part of 18 months.

 

Edited Sunday at 12:08 by dazzledavey36

[Adam The God 29,673]

16 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Think you need to actually take the time to.watch these kids..

It hasn't stopped the likes of Nick Daicos dominating from day one with his light frame? Daicos was only 73kg when he was drafted and Smith is about similarly weight and exactly same height.

Zac Butter who Jason Taylor tried desperately hard to trade up for in the 2018 draft is another similarly to Smith plays.

One of his biggest strengths is his kicking and ability to break the lines and motor himself to each contests.

Just one small example why this kid has been rated a genuine top 3 propsect for the best part of 18 months.

 

Agreed. Not sure what DS is smoking, but each to their own.

Jagga for number pick 1 for me.

Contest, speed, agility, good ball use. Gonna be a star IMHO.

[DeeSpencer 24,955]

18 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Mate it's clearly evident you've actually haven't seen these kids play.

Has it stopped the likes of Nick Daicos dominating from day one with his light frame? Daicos was only 73kg when he was drafted and Smith is about similarly weight and exactly same height.

Zac Butter who Jason Taylor tried desperately hard to trade up for in the 2018 draft is another similarly to Smith plays.

One of his biggest strengths is his kicking and ability to break the lines and motor himself to each contests.

Just one small example why this kid has been rated a genuine top 3 propsect for the best part of 18 months.

 

Daicos has speed and a truly special kicking boot.

Zak Butters has speed, creativity and flies in at the contest with no regard for his safety but also with the ability to use his hips to win the ball. He's a dynamic inside and outside player.

I watched half that video. Yeah, he runs contest to contest exceptionally well and exposes the other juniors lack of two way running. He's generally a clean ball handler. I won't deny that. I will argue I'm not seeing any breaking the lines with pace.

0:17 - retreats backwards, gives the nothing handball that Ashcroft does wonders with to draw opponents
 0:20 - nice corridor kick
0:42 - retreats backwards, caught htb
1:00 - nice enough snap
1:20 - nothing handball
1:28 - backwards handball
1:36 - hacked clearance kick, Kako makes it look good
1: 47 - hacked clearance kick, turnover
2: 37 - calls for it under pressure, quickly makes it someone elses problem
2:45 quality gather and spin
2:54 nice long corridor switch
3:00 a clearance that goes forward!!! But he doesn't trust his pace to beat the chaser once Ashcroft gets it back to him, kick flubs wide to the other team
3:20 weak tackle
3:35 gets the ball forward in space, with team mates wide open everywhere he handballs to a guy right next to him

3.5 things caught my eye where as there was a whole lot that didn't achieve much.

The draft media is Twomey and a few other guys here and there, there's no real rankings that hold any weight with me until about now when you start to get a guide on what clubs really think. 'general view, not as talented or damaging'

He's a quality junior footballer and if he works his backside off at stoppage craft he could be like a Lachie Neale who just gets better and better. The best players aren't always the most skilled or have the best traits.

But right now I'm seeing a guy who's born early in the year and had the year off school to dedicate to footy and is very advanced in his in game running and clean hands but in terms of natural talent - pace, strength, overhead marking, explosive power, kicking distance, kicking penetration there's not much there.
 

[DeeSpencer 24,955]

21 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

Agreed. Not sure what DS is smoking, but each to their own.

Jagga for number pick 1 for me.

Contest, speed, agility, good ball use. Gonna be a star IMHO.

I'll happily change my mind if you can find me sustained examples of any of those 3.

[dazzledavey36 53,343]

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Daicos has speed and a truly special kicking boot.

Zak Butters has speed, creativity and flies in at the contest with no regard for his safety but also with the ability to use his hips to win the ball. He's a dynamic inside and outside player.

I watched half that video. Yeah, he runs contest to contest exceptionally well and exposes the other juniors lack of two way running. He's generally a clean ball handler. I won't deny that. I will argue I'm not seeing any breaking the lines with pace.

0:17 - retreats backwards, gives the nothing handball that Ashcroft does wonders with to draw opponents
 0:20 - nice corridor kick
0:42 - retreats backwards, caught htb
1:00 - nice enough snap
1:20 - nothing handball
1:28 - backwards handball
1:36 - hacked clearance kick, Kako makes it look good
1: 47 - hacked clearance kick, turnover
2: 37 - calls for it under pressure, quickly makes it someone elses problem
2:45 quality gather and spin
2:54 nice long corridor switch
3:00 a clearance that goes forward!!! But he doesn't trust his pace to beat the chaser once Ashcroft gets it back to him, kick flubs wide to the other team
3:20 weak tackle
3:35 gets the ball forward in space, with team mates wide open everywhere he handballs to a guy right next to him

3.5 things caught my eye where as there was a whole lot that didn't achieve much.

The draft media is Twomey and a few other guys here and there, there's no real rankings that hold any weight with me until about now when you start to get a guide on what clubs really think. 'general view, not as talented or damaging'

He's a quality junior footballer and if he works his backside off at stoppage craft he could be like a Lachie Neale who just gets better and better. The best players aren't always the most skilled or have the best traits.

But right now I'm seeing a guy who's born early in the year and had the year off school to dedicate to footy and is very advanced in his in game running and clean hands but in terms of natural talent - pace, strength, overhead marking, explosive power, kicking distance, kicking penetration there's not much there.
 

He's not Chris Judd for Gods sake.

Go and watch Zac Butters junior highlights. Not flashy at all, if anything it's underwhelming compared to what Smith has shown.

You do understand not every draftee are going to have exactly every trait you've just highlighted in a footballer. 

It's utterly bizarre you think top draft prospects should be the complete package. Nick Daicos biggest weakness going into the draft was his strength and overheard marking and yet he still performs just fine.

You're nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking..

[DeeSpencer 24,955]

47 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He's not Chris Judd for Gods sake.

Go and watch Zac Butters junior highlights. Not flashy at all, if anything it's underwhelming compared to what Smith has shown.

You do understand not every draftee are going to have exactly every trait you've just highlighted in a footballer. 

It's utterly bizarre you think top draft prospects should be the complete package. Nick Daicos biggest weakness going into the draft was his strength and overheard marking and yet he still performs just fine.

You're nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking..

I know it's not a fair 1 to 1 fight because this is a highlight compilation but please watch this and tell me it's underwhelming or not flashy!

We've got hangers, left foot goals, ultra creative laser kicking and varied ball drops, tucking the ball under the arm with running bounces, an exceptional side step, the ability to mark and accelerate as soon as he hits the deck.

Look at how often he's driving the ball forward with pace and breaking the game open. Then compare to Jagga.

Butters is practically a mini Chris Judd! Where as Jagga is more mini Jack Macrae.

Nick Daicos doesn't have to be strong or mark overhead, he's a freak on the deck, in space and creating space. Doesn't matter if he never takes a contested mark in his career he has plenty of other weapons.

Maybe a better comparison is the Ashcrofts. Neither Ashcroft brother is all that big or physically off the charts but they both have really fast creative hands and hit the contest at pace, driving the ball forward and make great decisions with their kicks. There's a big talent difference in terms of what they do with the ball and the impact per possession.

But my point is I don't know what Jagga does well aside from run smartly contest to contest and have clean hands. I just can't see it. If there's something there I'm missing I'd like to know what it is.

Edited Sunday at 13:38 by DeeSpencer

[Sydee 4,260]

8 hours ago, Adam The God said:

Agreed. Not sure what DS is smoking, but each to their own.

Jagga for number pick 1 for me.

Contest, speed, agility, good ball use. Gonna be a star IMHO.

Smith looks a bit like Kynan Brown to me - still haven’t decided how I feel about that 

Does Brown have more upside than many think on here or is Smith a tad over rated by some 

[Davos 815]

8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Daicos has speed and a truly special kicking boot.

Zak Butters has speed, creativity and flies in at the contest with no regard for his safety but also with the ability to use his hips to win the ball. He's a dynamic inside and outside player.

I watched half that video. Yeah, he runs contest to contest exceptionally well and exposes the other juniors lack of two way running. He's generally a clean ball handler. I won't deny that. I will argue I'm not seeing any breaking the lines with pace.

0:17 - retreats backwards, gives the nothing handball that Ashcroft does wonders with to draw opponents
 0:20 - nice corridor kick
0:42 - retreats backwards, caught htb
1:00 - nice enough snap
1:20 - nothing handball
1:28 - backwards handball
1:36 - hacked clearance kick, Kako makes it look good
1: 47 - hacked clearance kick, turnover
2: 37 - calls for it under pressure, quickly makes it someone elses problem
2:45 quality gather and spin
2:54 nice long corridor switch
3:00 a clearance that goes forward!!! But he doesn't trust his pace to beat the chaser once Ashcroft gets it back to him, kick flubs wide to the other team
3:20 weak tackle
3:35 gets the ball forward in space, with team mates wide open everywhere he handballs to a guy right next to him

3.5 things caught my eye where as there was a whole lot that didn't achieve much.

The draft media is Twomey and a few other guys here and there, there's no real rankings that hold any weight with me until about now when you start to get a guide on what clubs really think. 'general view, not as talented or damaging'

He's a quality junior footballer and if he works his backside off at stoppage craft he could be like a Lachie Neale who just gets better and better. The best players aren't always the most skilled or have the best traits.

But right now I'm seeing a guy who's born early in the year and had the year off school to dedicate to footy and is very advanced in his in game running and clean hands but in terms of natural talent - pace, strength, overhead marking, explosive power, kicking distance, kicking penetration there's not much there.
 

Lachie Neale is also my best case comp for him, although Neale was pretty well built when he was drafted. 

I don't see Butters or Daicos - the best Butters comp in this draft is FOS. 

[old55 23,051]

17 hours ago, DeeZone said:

Is that a quote Deemania or is this your observations, either way very good.

That Deemania, they write in the language and style of a 19th century novelist

[old55 23,051]

1 hour ago, Davos said:

Lachie Neale is also my best case comp for him, although Neale was pretty well built when he was drafted. 

I don't see Butters or Daicos - the best Butters comp in this draft is FOS. 

I watched the Smith highlights, someone compared him to Zach Merrett and that's who I saw too.

[Davos 815]

20 minutes ago, old55 said:

I watched the Smith highlights, someone compared him to Zach Merrett and that's who I saw too.

Yeah, I can see Merrett. I can also see Parish. I think there are 5-10 small accumulator mids you could compare him to. That archetype is obviously valuable, which is why I'm higher on him than @DeeSpencer. 

I think we have to pick him if we're wiped out of Lalor, Langford and Tauru. 

[old55 23,051]

3 minutes ago, Davos said:

Yeah, I can see Merrett. I can also see Parish. I think there are 5-10 small accumulator mids you could compare him to. That archetype is obviously valuable, which is why I'm higher on him than @DeeSpencer. 

I think we have to pick him if we're wiped out of Lalor, Langford and Tauru. 

What's your thinking on O'Sullivan? I know nothing about it but he sounds good from the reports.

[Davos 815]

5 minutes ago, old55 said:

What's your thinking on O'Sullivan? I know nothing about it but he sounds good from the reports.

Butters upside, but I'm concerned that he hasn't proven himself to be a massive ballwinner yet. I know he's had an injury riddled year, but it's a huge risk to take someone top 5 who hasn't dominated a contest in at least 12 months.

Alternatively, you could end up getting crazy value, where a clear number 1 talent slips due to short term injuries a la Joel Selwood. 

I like others ahead of him, but can see how I can / will be proven wrong in 3 years time. 

[Mach5 4,722]

I also can’t see JS being a preference for us.

He’s a pure accumulator, but I think we value hurt factor more.

[Axis of Bob 11,347]

10 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

I also can’t see JS being a preference for us.

He’s a pure accumulator, but I think we value hurt factor more.

It'll depend on how we rate the draft. If we think there's a top 4 or 5 in the draft, with a gap behind it, then we'll probably take one of them no matter the type. Taylor talks about talent 'cliffs', which was why we spend heavily to get our second pick into the top 12 last year. So much will depend on where he sees those cliffs.

As for Smith, he's a good player. I think his contest work is underrated by most on here because he's light, but he has great ability to win the ball at the source. His games at the end of the year were his best, IMO, after he had a run in the VFL. He was able to play as more of ball carrier rather than solely an accumulator, which is a good sign for his AFL future. 

[titan_uranus 24,912]

 

[RedFox 493]

1 minute ago, titan_uranus said:

 

Sounds as though GC pick 13 will be heading to the Port via Pies as part of Noble & Houston deals. GC pick 6 looks to be heading to Tigers for Rioli. Unsure where else we can target a pick upgrade - all teams seem keen to head to the draft with a strong crop. Will be tricky to get back in at a reasonable spot IMO.

[Mach5 4,722]

36 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

It'll depend on how we rate the draft. If we think there's a top 4 or 5 in the draft, with a gap behind it, then we'll probably take one of them no matter the type. Taylor talks about talent 'cliffs', which was why we spend heavily to get our second pick into the top 12 last year. So much will depend on where he sees those cliffs.

As for Smith, he's a good player. I think his contest work is underrated by most on here because he's light, but he has great ability to win the ball at the source. His games at the end of the year were his best, IMO, after he had a run in the VFL. He was able to play as more of ball carrier rather than solely an accumulator, which is a good sign for his AFL future. 

Problem is that only so many players can be assigned to play at the source. Not sure I’m happy with Clayton lining up on a flank or Viney in a pocket. Versatility is such a rare commodity.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,902]

I think the most likely will be if Richmond decide to spread some of their potential 2024 first round bounty for Rioli, Bolton, Baker et al across into 2025 and bank on us bombing with our F1.    

[BangBnagBang 606]

1 minute ago, Lil_red_fire_engine said:

I think the most likely will be if Richmond decide to spread some of their potential 2024 first round bounty for Rioli, Bolton, Baker et al across into 2025 and bank on us bombing with our F1.    

I think clubs banking on us bombing next year is the key to us landing any pick this year for out F1. Comparing with Carl or Pies our F1 is a lot more enticing to GCS with Melb more then likely finishing below these teams, in others eyes then above, however it will come down to what we or others add to the F1.

[Mach5 4,722]

13 minutes ago, Lil_red_fire_engine said:

I think the most likely will be if Richmond decide to spread some of their potential 2024 first round bounty for Rioli, Bolton, Baker et al across into 2025 and bank on us bombing with our F1.    

Yes, tiges will be keen to get more of a spread with so many firsts, but they’ll want to give us one in the late teens to maximise their selection options & mitigate against us having a good season.

Would prefer to gazump others for GC’s pick, as we can use later picks this year for points. As long as they’re not wrapped up in a deal to Brisbane.

[Axis of Bob 11,347]

2 hours ago, Mach5 said:

Problem is that only so many players can be assigned to play at the source. Not sure I’m happy with Clayton lining up on a flank or Viney in a pocket. Versatility is such a rare commodity.

That's definitely true, however when you have a top 5 pick your expecting that the midfielder you are drafting will be worthy of being frontline midfielder. It's not like we're drafting James Jordon with pick 5 and forcing him to play outside the centre square, we're clearly expecting to draft a better player than that. The only current player I'd say is a full time midfielder for us is Oliver, with Petracca and Viney both being potential forwards for us. Versatility is good but it's much more important for lesser players rather than the good ones because you want your good players near the ball as often as possible.