On 24/12/2024 at 06:37, george_on_the_outer said:

The question is less about May, Lever, TMac & Petty because 1 of them will be on the bench….. but rather who misses out from Salem, McVee, Windsor, Bowey, Rivers, Howes, AMW,  Woewodin,

The key defenders typically play 85-90% game time, which means half a game where all three are on the ground. I don’t think it works if the coaches want to maintain a defensive 7, which they like for cohesion and because it makes rotations easier. 

  On 24/12/2024 at 06:37, george_on_the_outer said:

The question is less about May, Lever, TMac & Petty because 1 of them will be on the bench….. but rather who misses out from Salem, McVee, Windsor, Bowey, Rivers, Howes, AMW,  Woewodin,

Indeed.

And its worth noting that Howes (191 cm), Tmac (195 cm), Lever (194 cm) and May (193cm) played multiple games together last season

Tmac is all of 4 centimeters taller than Howes. 

Edited December 24, 2024Dec 24 by binman

  On 23/12/2024 at 21:47, binman said:

Some interesting line ups suggested in this thread.

In terms of debutants I have little doubt Langford and XL will be in our best 22 (when xl is over his pcl).

Jefferson will get his shot early I suspect.

And I reckon AJ is a very good chance to be in the round one team - goody really wants a second ruck to chop out maxy and whilst Roo can do the job i suspect AJ might get a shot at the role.

I realise you can't pick everyone, but I'm surprised so many people don't have tmac in the their best 22.

He was arguably our best defender last year. Tailed away near the end of the season, bur barely missed a game and came off an interrupted preseason.

In the two training sessions I've been to tmac has been a real stand out. In ripping nick and looks very, very focused. 

I can't see him not being in the round one team down back.

It’s harder for him with Petty going back. We can’t/won’t/it’s unlikely we play 4 talls.

  On 24/12/2024 at 07:07, Roost it far said:

It’s harder for him with Petty going back. We can’t/won’t/it’s unlikely we play 4 talls.

I think we should play 6 plus Max in the 22. 

  On 24/12/2024 at 09:49, old55 said:

I think we should play 6 plus Max in the 22. 

I want Johnson in the side to see what he can add. I’m sick of drafting these low rung talls and never playing them. I think his attack on the ball just might make him a handy forward addition and I’d like to see him given the opportunity to prove himself. Play him through the first 5-6 weeks, we’ve nothing to lose. 

McDonald is a key defender not a flanker, can't see him and Petty in the same team. I think there are only 2 spots up for grabs the 3rd tall forward spot out of Johnson and Jefferson and the wing spot out of Lindsay and Sharp the rest pick themselves.

  On 24/12/2024 at 07:03, binman said:

Indeed.

And its worth noting that Howes, Tmac, Lever and May played multiple games together last season

Tmac is all of 4 centimeters taller than Howes. 

Don't you know 192cms is the cut off for talls the rest are smalls.

Based on track reports I think there's some open slots.

Back 7 is pretty solid: May, Lever, Petty, Salem, McVee, Windsor, Bowey

There's an opening in the midfield rotation 8: Gawn, Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Rivers, Langdon, Sharp, mid-fwd

There's two openings in the forward 7: JVR, Turner, tall-fwd, Fritsch, Chandler, Pickett, mid-fwd. Pickett is in the mid-fwd rotation.

Three are in contention for the tall-fwd slot: TMac, Johnson and Jefferson.

Four are in contention for the two mid-fwd slots: Spargo, Sparrow, Tholstrup and Langford. The sub probably comes from this set too although Melksham may have a say.

Brown could surprise and hopefully Lindsay gets match fit quickly.

Edited December 24, 2024Dec 24 by old55

I really appreciate the thought and effort by everyone contributing to this thread. All of you have greater knowledge and understanding of players than I do, although I m trying.

Consistent with my overall philosophy of using the squad and particularly in terms of striking a team for peak conditioning and opposition match ups, can someone detail the team and the team they  compete against.

I think Bin man has done this in the past and I found his thoughts extremely interesting. It made me think not only of the skills and abilities of other teams players but gave a more thorough analysis of our boys.

 

  On 24/12/2024 at 09:49, old55 said:

I think we should play 6 plus Max in the 22. 

Interesting.  I have 5 plus Gawn in the 22 I posted.  I wouldn't be averse to 6 + in the 23 with perhaps a tall as the sub.

What's your 22 ?  Apologies if I've missed it.

Btw, I reckon we played on average the shortest team in the competition in 2024.  I don't mind being a bit taller !

  On 24/12/2024 at 21:41, Gator said:

Interesting.  I have 5 plus Gawn in the 22 I posted.  I wouldn't be averse to 6 + in the 23 with perhaps a tall as the sub.

What's your 22 ?  Apologies if I've missed it.

Btw, I reckon we played on average the shortest team in the competition in 2024.  I don't mind being a bit taller !

I didn't commit above, but if I did it would be TMac, Tholstrup and Langford for my three openings.

Back 7: May, Lever, Petty, Salem, McVee, Windsor, Bowey

Midfield rotation 8: Gawn, Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Rivers, Langdon, Sharp, Langford.  Petracca and Langford in the mid-fwd rotation.

Forward 7: JVR, Turner, McDonald, Fritsch, Chandler, Pickett, Tholstrup. Pickett and Tholstrup in the mid-fwd rotation.

Edited December 24, 2024Dec 24 by old55

  On 24/12/2024 at 22:08, old55 said:

I didn't commit above, but if I did it would be TMac, Tholstrup and Langford for my three openings.

Back 7: May, Lever, Petty, Salem, McVee, Windsor, Bowey

Midfield rotation 8: Gawn, Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Rivers, Langdon, Sharp, Langford.  Petracca and Langford in the mid-fwd rotation.

Forward 7: JVR, Turner, McDonald, Fritsch, Chandler, Pickett, Tholstrup. Pickett and Tholstrup in the mid-fwd rotation.

This is close to my thoughts. I would have Rivers back, Sparrow in the forward/mids and Salem out. Lindsay also hopefully bashes the door down. I also don’t like not having Melksham in the side because he helps our forwards function better. 

  On 24/12/2024 at 22:08, old55 said:

I didn't commit above, but if I did it would be TMac, Tholstrup and Langford for my three openings.

Back 7: May, Lever, Petty, Salem, McVee, Windsor, Bowey

Midfield rotation 8: Gawn, Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Rivers, Langdon, Sharp, Langford.  Petracca and Langford in the mid-fwd rotation.

Forward 7: JVR, Turner, McDonald, Fritsch, Chandler, Pickett, Tholstrup. Pickett and Tholstrup in the mid-fwd rotation.

OK, so you've got a bench that probably looks like Bowey, Rivers, Langford and McDonald.

We only differ in that I selected a running small/ball user in Lindsay and you've opted for the versatility of McDonald, who can play either end.

To quote Seinfeld 'Now we're getting somewhere".

  On 24/12/2024 at 22:35, Gator said:

OK, so you've got a bench that probably looks like Bowey, Rivers, Langford and McDonald.

We only differ in that I selected a running small/ball user in Lindsay and you've opted for the versatility of McDonald, who can play either end.

I think the beauty of drafting Langford (and Petracca) as forward marking threats may mean we can play your extra runner instead of my tall.

  On 24/12/2024 at 23:49, old55 said:

I think the beauty of drafting Langford (and Petracca) as forward marking threats may mean we can play your extra runner instead of my tall.

That's what I'm hoping.

  On 24/12/2024 at 22:17, Fat Tony said:

This is close to my thoughts. I would have Rivers back, Sparrow in the forward/mids and Salem out. Lindsay also hopefully bashes the door down. I also don’t like not having Melksham in the side because he helps our forwards function better. 

If Salem is fit he can do everything Bowey can do even better, and he sounds fit.

I don't think we can just go with the same old midfield troika that we have since 2018, the opposition knows it too well. We need Rivers and Pickett in there regularly to shake things up.

  On 24/12/2024 at 09:49, old55 said:

I think we should play 6 plus Max in the 22. 

In terms of talls, Langford is a fascinating addition to the mix.

I've previously compared him to Jeremy Cameron as from the vision I've watched Langford really reminds me of him in terms of how he moves, being a left footer and playing a hybrid forward role.

(Langford is a mid/forward and Cameron has been playing the last couple of seasons almost as a forward flanker with license to get up the ground, as opposed to a key forward)

I just checked Cameron's height and was surprised how tall he is - 196 cms. I guess i shouldn't be as he has been a true key forward for most of his career.

Still, Langford is listed as 191 cms, which is tall for a mid (except for bont who is 194 cms!) - and i reckon there's every chance he'll get a bit taller. Even if he doesn't get any taller, there are only 13 players on the list taller than Langford! 

As Gator notes above, we may well have been the shortest team in the competition in 2024. And our best 23 might be one of the shortest teams again. 

Not suggesting these players (all 186 cm or above) will play in the same team, but all will be there or thereabouts for senior selection (with fringe players in brackets):

Rucks

• Maxy - 209 cm
• (Campbell - 201 cm)
• (Fullarton - 200 cm)
• (Verall- 193 cm)

Forwards:

• Jefferson - 195 cm
• Turner - 194 cm
• JVR - 193 cm
• AJ - 193 cm
• Langford (mid/forward) - 191 cm
• Fritter - 188 cm
• Melksham - 186 cm

Defenders

• Lever - 194 cm
• May - 193 cm 
• Howes - 191 cm
• (Adams - 196 cm)
• (Hore- 191 cm)

Swingmen

• Petty - 197 cm
• Tmac - 195 cm

 

That aint a tall side that's for sure. 

  On 24/12/2024 at 23:53, old55 said:

If Salem is fit he can do everything Bowey can do even better, and he sounds fit.

I don't think we can just go with the same old midfield troika that we have since 2018, the opposition knows it too well. We need Rivers and Pickett in there regularly to shake things up.

Salem can only kick 45m and is not as fast as Bowey. He has been a league average or below average player since 2022.

Of Oliver, Viney and Petracca, only Petracca is an above average forward. Kossie needs minutes in the midfield, as will Langford. There is only 240 midfield minutes to go around and I think Rivers is a well above average defender.

  On 25/12/2024 at 00:09, binman said:

Langford is listed as 191 cms, which is tall for a mid (except for bont who is 194 cms!)

Bontempelli was drafted at 192cm, but was a November birth and played his entire year at 18, so had more time to grow than Langford, who plays all of 2025 at 19.

Bontempelli is only 6 weeks older than Petracca, but seems to have been on the scene a lot longer (2014 debut year compared to 2016).

  On 25/12/2024 at 00:09, binman said:

In terms of talls, Langford is a fascinating addition to the mix.

I've previously compared him to Jeremy Cameron as from the vision I've watched Langford really reminds me of him in terms of how he moves, being a left footer and playing a hybrid forward role.

(Langford is a mid/forward and Cameron has been playing the last couple of seasons almost as a forward flanker with license to get up the ground, as opposed to a key forward)

I just checked Cameron's height and was surprised how tall he is - 196 cms. I guess i shouldn't be as he has been a true key forward for most of his career.

Still, Langford is listed as 191 cms, which is tall for a mid (except for bont who is 194 cms!) - and i reckon there's every chance he'll get a bit taller. Even if he doesn't get any taller, there are only 13 players on the list taller than Langford! 

As Gator notes above, we may well have been the shortest team in the competition in 2024. And our best 23 might be one of the shortest teams again. 

Not suggesting these players (all 186 cm or above) will play in the same team, but all will be there or thereabouts for senior selection (with fringe players in brackets):

Rucks

• Maxy - 209 cm
• (Campbell - 201 cm)
• (Fullarton - 200 cm)
• (Verall- 193 cm)

Forwards:

• Jefferson - 195 cm
• Turner - 194 cm
• JVR - 193 cm
• AJ - 193 cm
• Langford (mid/forward) - 191 cm
• Fritter - 188 cm
• Melksham - 186 cm

Defenders

• Lever - 194 cm
• May - 193 cm 
• Howes - 191 cm
• (Adams - 196 cm)
• (Hore- 191 cm)

Swingmen

• Petty - 197 cm
• Tmac - 195 cm

 

That aint a tall side that's for sure. 

Height can be misleading. I think a player's ability to leap is more important if you're trying to decide between certain players etc, think of Jeff White he was 195cm but had a huge leap.

  On 25/12/2024 at 00:30, Gator said:

Bontempelli was drafted at 192cm, but was a November birth and played his entire year at 18, so had more time to grow than Langford, who plays all of 2025 at 19.

Bontempelli is only 6 weeks older than Petracca, but seems to have been on the scene a lot longer (2014 debut year compared to 2016).

Thats an interesting point about Langford being 19 in 2025.

It has to be a positive in terms of being AFL ready, but it's also good to keep in mind in terms of assessing his progress (and i guess his performances as a junior - he would have monstered most of his opponents). 

Conversely, XL doesn't turn 19 until July (aprox round 17, so three quarters through the season).

And Windsor and the Kolt both turn 20 aprox round 14.

There hasn't been much talk about it in the last couple of seasons, but I've long thought they should raise the age players can be drafted.

I know we don't have an equivalent of college football, but if post Coates league players too young for the draft had to say play at VFL or WAFL level clubs would get a much better sense of players abilities, partic for players who are not obvious first rounders. 

And it would be real fillip for the second teir leagues and create some buzz

I guess the counter view is that the quicker players get into an AFL club the better for them in terms of being in an elite high-performance program. 

  On 25/12/2024 at 00:09, binman said:

In terms of talls, Langford is a fascinating addition to the mix.

I've previously compared him to Jeremy Cameron as from the vision I've watched Langford really reminds me of him in terms of how he moves, being a left footer and playing a hybrid forward role.

(Langford is a mid/forward and Cameron has been playing the last couple of seasons almost as a forward flanker with license to get up the ground, as opposed to a key forward)

I just checked Cameron's height and was surprised how tall he is - 196 cms. I guess i shouldn't be as he has been a true key forward for most of his career.

Still, Langford is listed as 191 cms, which is tall for a mid (except for bont who is 194 cms!) - and i reckon there's every chance he'll get a bit taller. Even if he doesn't get any taller, there are only 13 players on the list taller than Langford! 

As Gator notes above, we may well have been the shortest team in the competition in 2024. And our best 23 might be one of the shortest teams again. 

Not suggesting these players (all 186 cm or above) will play in the same team, but all will be there or thereabouts for senior selection (with fringe players in brackets):

Rucks

• Maxy - 209 cm
• (Campbell - 201 cm)
• (Fullarton - 200 cm)
• (Verall- 193 cm)

Forwards:

• Jefferson - 195 cm
• Turner - 194 cm
• JVR - 193 cm
• AJ - 193 cm
• Langford (mid/forward) - 191 cm
• Fritter - 188 cm
• Melksham - 186 cm

Defenders

• Lever - 194 cm
• May - 193 cm 
• Howes - 191 cm
• (Adams - 196 cm)
• (Hore- 191 cm)

Swingmen

• Petty - 197 cm
• Tmac - 195 cm

 

That aint a tall side that's for sure. 

Jeffo is our tallest forward?? CMON PLAY THE BOY!!

  On 25/12/2024 at 02:49, binman said:

Thats an interesting point about Langford being 19 in 2025.

It has to be a positive in terms of being AFL ready, but it's also good to keep in mind in terms of assessing his progress (and i guess his performances as a junior - he would have monstered most of his opponents). 

Conversely, XL doesn't turn 19 until July (aprox round 17, so three quarters through the season).

And Windsor and the Kolt both turn 20 aprox round 14.

There hasn't been much talk about it in the last couple of seasons, but I've long thought they should raise the age players can be drafted.

I know we don't have an equivalent of college football, but if post Coates league players too young for the draft had to say play at VFL or WAFL level clubs would get a much better sense of players abilities, partic for players who are not obvious first rounders. 

And it would be real fillip for the second teir leagues and create some buzz

I guess the counter view is that the quicker players get into an AFL club the better for them in terms of being in an elite high-performance program. 

14 of the top 18 players in the 2023 draft played AFL in 2024, including all of the top 10.

  On 25/12/2024 at 12:17, old55 said:

14 of the top 18 players in the 2023 draft played AFL in 2024, including all of the top 10.

Yep, first rounders

But I suspect it falls fairly dramatically after that.

Much more a raffle in the subsequent rounds.

And I'm guessing some of those first rounders would still play if the age was raised (that's to say if players had to be say 19, like Langford, before round one, some of those 2023 draftees would have met that criteria).

Edited December 25, 2024Dec 25 by binman