Christian Petracca

[Jaded No More 68,974]

1 minute ago, John Crow Batty said:

AFLPA trying to open up a pathway to get Petracca out of the club and to elsewhere?  I could see a grievance case coming on. 

Yep and in this grievance case what will he say? 

Medical process was followed in accordance to the rules, but I feel emotionally hurt so I want to be traded. 
Oh wait, I ONLY want to be traded to Carlton or Collingwood because my spleen recovered but my brand has not 🙄😂

[KozzyCan 764]

1 minute ago, John Crow Batty said:

AFLPA trying to open up a pathway to get Petracca out of the club and to elsewhere?  I could see a grievance case coming on. 

I just don't see a world where Petracca risks voiding a contract worth $5-7m

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

3 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

From the Herald Sun's Jon Ralph: Melbourne Demons in the clear over handling of Petracca injury on King’s Birthday

Melbourne’s treatment of Christian Petracca’s MCG injury was given a tick of approval by multiple reviews conducted by the AFL and the AFL Doctors’ Association, despite his anger at the club’s treatment of his King’s Birthday accident. 

The reviews found that while it was regrettable Petracca had been put back on the ground, the actual processes put in place by Melbourne’s doctors had not been flawed.

The Demons used the AFL’s emergency clinician at the MCG for a second opinion, with the review finding even initial consultation in hospital was unable to diagnose his spleen concern.

It comes with confusion among AFL fans about whether players are able to return to the field while carrying rib injuries after the Petracca incident.

The Demons champion was so ill upon his return to the ground even Collingwood players asked him if he should be on the field, with the 28-year-old nearly dying with a lacerated spleen and four broken ribs.

AFL Doctors Association boss and Gold Coast club doctor Barry Rigby is also an intensive care doctor.

He runs the yearly briefing over rib and internal injuries for AFL and AFLW doctors so they can better diagnose broken ribs or internal trauma.

He said on Monday it was almost impossible for club doctors to diagnose whether ribs were bruised or broken without a complex CT scan, with even MRI scans or a simple chest X-ray often not detailed enough.

Rigby said the AFL was satisfied with the current procedures for caring with patients with rib damage.

“The priority is clinical assessment but it can be quite difficult with blunt force chest trauma. You can have significant pain, but you might not have fractured a rib,” he said.

“Chest X-rays are often not that good at picking up chest fractures, and they can miss a small pneumothorax, which is a contusion which causes air to escape from the lungs.

“To do a CT scan, which continues a significant amount of radiation, for every player who has a bump to the chest, isn’t a practical approach to the problem. It gets back to the clinical assessment for club doctors and it can be very difficult.

“We need to be careful we don’t change the whole landscape which is working pretty well for 99 per cent of the issues. Safety is always our top priority. There is good support from an emergency physician who sits behind the bench if we need assistance,” he said.

Rigby has run his emergency care course on assessing players with potential torso chest or abdominal trauma for over five seasons at AFL level.

He says the general rule is that if a doctor suspects a player has broken his rib he will not be allowed to return to the field

“We have looked at Christian’s circumstances closely and done a constructive critique on what did or didn’t happen. Hindsight is a wonderful gift in some respects. But there was an adequate assessment done. The decision in retrospect (for him to return to the ground) was the wrong one, but we don’t want to criticise the process,” he said.

“There was a review done by the AFL and (chief medical officer) Michael Makdissi. The doctors collectively reviewed the whole situation as well. In our professional life we are always reviewing for things we can do better. 

“All of those boxes were ticked, the process was followed. The emergency physician was involved. The club doctor and hospital were involved. Even in hospital the (damage) wasn’t clear and obvious in the early stages. So I don’t think changing processes would have got us a different outcome.”

“There are hundreds of games played every year and the number of people who end up in hospital with rib fractures, you could count on one hand.”

Am i missing something here but isn't there an elephant in the room called concussion. Maybe left for a later date.

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

3 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

I just don't see a world where Petracca risks voiding a contract worth $5-7m

There will be monetary compensation if does happen.

Edited September 9 by John Crow Batty

[KozzyCan 764]

Just now, John Crow Batty said:

There will be compensation if does happen.

Only if an outcome favourable to Petracca is reached.

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

2 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

They're a union representing one of their members.

This sort of dismissive attitude will not serve us well.

Well surely they don't speak for each other. I don't think that is too dismissive, old chap

[Jaded No More 68,974]

3 minutes ago, John Crow Batty said:

There will be monetary compensation if does happen.

You didn’t explain to me on what grounds he wins a grievance hearing? 

If he wants to be traded, we will trade him. What he can’t do is demand to be traded to a club of his choice for way less than he’s worth, because in his (non medically factual) opinion he wasn’t treated properly post injury.
That’s not how the AFL works. 

Edited September 9 by Jaded No More

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

5 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

You didn’t explain to me on what grounds he wins a grievance hearing? 

If he wants to be traded, we will trade him. What he can’t do is demand to be traded to a club of his choice for way less than he’s worth. That’s not how the AFL works. 

The AFLPA might answer that question. What’s their game? If it does hypothetically go to grievance, the AFL and certainly the club would not want this to set a precedent. It’s uncharted territory. 

Edited September 9 by John Crow Batty

[hardtack 10,627]

2 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

The report here is that the AFLPA aren't satisfied with the AFL's assessment.

In which case the AFLPA cannot have any real issue with the MFC, because we met all of the AFL’s requirements as they stood at the time. Their issue has to be with the AFL and ONLY the AFL.

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

1 minute ago, John Crow Batty said:

The AFLPA might answer that question. What’s their game? If it does hypothetically go to grievance, the AFL and certainly the club would not want this to set a precedent. It’s uncharted territory. 

AFLPA have just decided to enter the conversation just now, have they. Collectively they have not been able to solve any players grievances for six plus years and failed miserably at their big test before then.

Did someone rattle their chain? Who hates Simon more than Kero? Maybe she just doesn't like that the current Richmond Coach is a distinguished Melbourne player who has shunned her already?

 

[Palace Dees 2,340]

When this all settles, if it the end of the day, the code and ALL clubs provide a safer environment for players kicking a ball, I'll be very satisfied,

[layzie 34,013]

Make it stop.

[Pates 9,660]

3 minutes ago, layzie said:

Make it stop.

Amen brother, but the media don't want it to stop. Every time this story gets a whiff of being snuffed out or moved on, they find a new way to add fuel to it. 

At this point the media and AFLPA are playing the role of Captain Hindsight. Despite actual experts in the field agreeing with the assessments and our doctors even requested the opinion of the AFL employed doctor, they know that if the decision was in their hands they would make 100% the right call.

I do think there could be something to be said of reviewing the way assessments are made, but you can't walk back on the current processes and blame the medical staff for following the protocols that had been put in place.

Also it's worth noting that the moment the doctors pass Christian over the the ambulance workers he was in their care. So all decisions made following that is not on Melbourne, and even then I would argue they weren't abject failures!

[Skuit 10,031]

8 hours ago, Demonland said:

 

That's just a whole lot of incoherent indignation. Wilson clearly doesn't know the full set of the facts, so is throwing out a load of rehashed questions that have either been previously addressed or don't relate to us. 

The miscommunication between the various health transport services? 

May as well pin that on the MFC as well. 

The misdiagnosis of Petracca’s injury?

Wilson's trying to make it sound like misdiagnosis equals malpractice, rather than an ordinary part of the diagnostic process where a medical practioner will come to an initial conclusion based on the information available at the time. 

The fact that he was taken to the Epworth hospital and waited there for hours?

The reason he was there for hours was because he was being treated, and then his vital indications changed. I think Wilson should be very careful here if she is trying to insinuate sub-standard care at Epworth.

Also, as another reminder, once the paramedics arrived, Petracca was no longer under the care of the MFC medical team, to the extent that we were also no longer privy to any new information. 

Why did he go to the Epworth?

I don't know enough about how the healthcare system works in Victoria to properly respond, but I'm guessing you can't just ask for a patient to be admitted to the emergency trauma ward as a precautionary measure without evidence of significant-enough trauma. I imagine you would be directed to another facility for further checks and monitoring. 

Why was not all the information given to the medicos correct?

This is potentially the most serious allegation. But does she mean we gave the paramedics information contrary to what we knew, or that his condition was not yet known, so 'not correct' in hindsight as to the true extent of his injury?  

There were two ambulances at the ground, but a third one was called?

Wilson raises this point before immediately clarifying that as per protocol the two other ambulances must remain at the ground to cater to the public. What is she even trying to get at? 

She seems to be hinting at something that went down between the various ambulance teams or dispatch. Maybe we assumed one of the ambulances on-site could take him, and as such were delayed in calling another so bear some responsibility if the policy was clear? Otherwise, it's not related to us at all.

If it transpires that anyone in a position of authority at the MFC encouraged Trac back out on the ground despite his own potential, evident, reluctance - then we should be in the gun, and perhaps it will shine a light on an industry-wide attitude. If not, we followed league protocols by all reports: if the protocols need to change, then Wilson can go after the AFL and stop using words like 'negligence' and 'wrongdoing' in relation to our football club thanks. 

Meanwhile, I would encourage the MFC to send her team a friendly reminder about defamation laws, and to be very, very careful about how she chooses her future words. 

 

 

 

Edited September 9 by Skuit

[No10 461]

27 minutes ago, Skuit said:

That's just a whole lot of incoherent indignation. Wilson clearly doesn't know the full set of the facts, so is throwing out a load of rehashed questions that have either been previously addressed or don't relate to us. 

The miscommunication between the various health transport services? 

May as well pin that on the MFC as well. 

The misdiagnosis of Petracca’s injury?

Wilson's trying to make it sound like misdiagnosis equals malpractice, rather than an ordinary part of the diagnostic process where a medical practioner will come to an initial conclusion based on the information available at the time. 

The fact that he was taken to the Epworth hospital and waited there for hours?

The reason he was there for hours was because he was being treated, and then his vital indications changed. I think Wilson should be very careful here if she is trying to insinuate sub-standard care at Epworth.

Also, as another reminder, once the paramedics arrived, Petracca was no longer under the care of the MFC medical team, to the extent that we were also no longer privy to any new information. 

Why did he go to the Epworth?

I don't know enough about how the healthcare system works in Victoria to properly respond, but I'm guessing you can't just ask for a patient to be admitted to the emergency trauma ward as a precautionary measure without evidence of significant-enough trauma. I imagine you would be directed to another facility for further checks and monitoring. 

Why was not all the information given to the medicos correct?

This is potentially the most serious allegation. But does she mean we gave the paramedics information contrary to what we knew, or that his condition was not yet known, so 'not correct' in hindsight as to the true extent of his injury?  

There were two ambulances at the ground, but a third one was called?

Wilson raises this point before immediately clarifying that as per protocol the two other ambulances must remain at the ground to cater to the public. What is she even trying to get at? 

She seems to be hinting at something that went down between the various ambulance teams or dispatch. Maybe we assumed one of the ambulances on-site could take him, and as such were delayed in calling another so bear some responsibility if the policy was clear? Otherwise, it's not related to us at all.

If it transpires that anyone in a position of authority at the MFC encouraged Trac back out on the ground despite his own potential, evident, reluctance - then we should be in the gun, and perhaps it will shine a light on an industry-wide attitude. If not, we followed league protocols by all reports: if the protocols need to change, then Wilson can go after the AFL and stop using words like 'negligence' and 'wrongdoing' in relation to our football club thanks. 

Meanwhile, I would encourage the MFC to send her team a friendly reminder about defamation laws, and to be very, very careful about how she chooses her future words. 

 

 

 

I usually like Caro honestly, I know that’s not a popular opinion here.

This all reads to me as fairly standard. Epworth is the closest and a highly rated hospital. He was then transferred to the Alfred for specialist care.

The biggest issue appears to be the emotional impact a phone call from the hospital to his girlfriend that alarmed her.

That seems to have escalated the emotional response tremendously. However, these calls are common and steer toward worst case. Ultimately, most people who have had this kind of experience understand that’s part of life and move on, for whatever reason that doesn’t seem to have been the case and the trauma increased.

I would also say, without any medical insight, that the fact he was given a full vaccination has to be considered as a known factor for the appendicitis that followed. Not sure that’s avoidable in the situation, but a shame those events happened so close together.

[No10 461]

3 hours ago, Pates said:

Amen brother, but the media don't want it to stop. Every time this story gets a whiff of being snuffed out or moved on, they find a new way to add fuel to it. 

At this point the media and AFLPA are playing the role of Captain Hindsight. Despite actual experts in the field agreeing with the assessments and our doctors even requested the opinion of the AFL employed doctor, they know that if the decision was in their hands they would make 100% the right call.

I do think there could be something to be said of reviewing the way assessments are made, but you can't walk back on the current processes and blame the medical staff for following the protocols that had been put in place.

Also it's worth noting that the moment the doctors pass Christian over the the ambulance workers he was in their care. So all decisions made following that is not on Melbourne, and even then I would argue they weren't abject failures!

Agree about captain hindsight going on here.

Perhaps worth considering that the Trac family are emotional (or not the most emotionally mature?) and in that instance it might’ve been smart to send someone from the club to help mediate.

The club should know its players and partner/family well enough to make that assessment. In this case, maybe it was not the best management by the club?

[Ugottobekidding 1,194]

The club needs to offload him for the best offer. Having him at the club is gonna set us back big time next year.

[The Jackson FIX 3,210]

What is happening here - has Christian requested the AFLPA investigate or is this something they are conducting as a matter of process?

[Skuit 10,031]

51 minutes ago, No10 said:

I usually like Caro honestly, I know that’s not a popular opinion here.

This all reads to me as fairly standard. Epworth is the closest and a highly rated hospital. He was then transferred to the Alfred for specialist care.

Being an outsider, it's some of these things I'm unfamiliar with. It's a private hospital? Do we or the AFL have a contact with the hospital? If I were to fall off the monkey-bars in the playground just outside of the MCG, and my friends called emergency services and said I was in a fair bit of pain, what would be the response? Who comes to get me and take me where?

Are the ambulances from Epworth privately bidden? Are they networked in with the public system? Does dispatch ask if I have insurance, and then send me somewhere accordingly? What happens if my friends drive me to and drop me off at the Alfred? Is Caroline Wilson aware that you can't just go in for explorative surgery if a need for an operation hasn't yet been identified?

A few years ago my mother was visiting me in Amsterdam and was very suddenly in a lot of pain. I took her to the hospital and they told me to go find a doctor and get a referral first before rocking up to emergency. I held my ground and it ended up being an emergency, but I guess they were just following their own protocols. 

Is the healthcare system the same in Australia as the Netherlands? 

[Skuit 10,031]

9 minutes ago, The Jackson FIX said:

What is happening here - has Christian requested the AFLPA investigate or is this something they are conducting as a matter of process?

Maybe the AFLPA's governance needs to be investigated if no-one thought to ask any questions until the top boss was back from three months leave? I totally think they should ask those questions though from a player welfare point of view, but it's now incumbent on them if they have leaked to clarify if they have an issue with the MFC or AFL, and what an 'investigation' - in Wilson's ultimately wound-back words, actually means, and do to so with the upmost transparency. 

[Whispering_Jack 30,674]

7 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

Only if an outcome favourable to Petracca is reached.

A week ago, Christian Petracca confirmed his position as a contracted Melbourne player. He’s not wasting his time and money trying to overturn centuries of settled contract law. The only favourable outcome to be reached for him now is Melbourne’s 2025 premiership. 

[Skuit 10,031]

21 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

A week ago, Christian Petracca confirmed his position as a contracted Melbourne player. He’s not wasting his time and money trying to overturn centuries of settled contract law. The only favourable outcome to be reached for him now is Melbourne’s 2025 premiership. 

Are you speaking from a lawyer's perspective @Whispering_Jack? 

[Jaded No More 68,974]

Every player who is taken to hospital from the MCG goes to the Epworth. It’s the closest private hospital. And of course players get taken to a private hospital so they can be seen to immediately. 
If the ambulance took him to the Alfred with nothing more than suspected broken ribs, he’d be in the waiting room for 4+ hours before anyone would even see him. At a level 1 trauma centre, broken ribs rate very low on the triage scale.

Also a reminder that Melbourne has no say in his care the minute he gets into an ambulance. 

Another reminder is May being sent directly to hospital after breaking his ribs the first time, because he indicated trouble breathing (due to the lung puncture he sustained).

If Trac at any point said he couldn’t breath, his pain was a 10, or he wasn’t willing to get back on the ground, does anyone really think we would have told him “well suck it up”? 
There is absolutely no evidence we would have done that. 

[Whispering_Jack 30,674]

3 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Are you speaking from a lawyer's perspective @Whispering_Jack? 

Retired now but that’s my recollection of the law. Mainly speaking as a Demon fan which is basically what this site’s about.

[Skuit 10,031]

4 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Every player who is taken to hospital from the MCG goes to the Epworth. It’s the closest private hospital. And of course players get taken to a private hospital so they can be seen to immediately. 

If the ambulance took him to the Alfred with nothing more than suspected broken ribs, he’d be in the waiting room for 4+ hours before anyone would even see him. At a level 1 trauma centre, broken ribs rate very low on the triage scale.

Is this a fact Jaded?