15 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

It’s not his philosophy. He is a defence minded coach - it is very hard to change that mindset. 

 

I understand that is his philosophy. The club or Goodwin has a decision to make. Do we persist with this defensive game style that is not contemporary or working. A style that will hurt our attendances and membership sales. A game style that will see us have less than commercially desirable fixturing which will also make us less attractive to sponsors ( eg shorts sponsor) all of which hurt our bottom line. 

Just now, Dee Viney Intervention said:

I understand that is his philosophy. The club or Goodwin has a decision to make. Do we persist with this defensive game style that is not contemporary or working. A style that will hurt our attendances and membership sales. A game style that will see us have less than commercially desirable fixturing which will also make us less attractive to sponsors ( eg shorts sponsor) all of which hurt our bottom line. 

I’d say we are already at that point. 

What irks me is this is what I expect Collingwood and Geelong to be with their lists. We are a younger side and look like we are nosediving for bottom 4.

 

16 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Ironically we were one of the most attacking and high scoring teams in the AFL back in 2017-2018.

We leaked too many goals playing a Sam Frost and Oscar McDonald led defence which resulted in him being super defensive after that.

6-6-6 killed it too, he used to have one or two players off the back of the square but can't do that anymore.

Realistically, we are not going to sack Goodwin in season.  But if we fall right away, the end of the season could see the end for Simon

But we'd have to fall right away (7 wins or less)

Right now, we don't have the players with the skills to play the new type of offense that we are seeing from a number of clubs

However, if we add May,  Melk, Kozzie,  Kolt,  Windsor,  McVee,  Johnson & Langford (he should have played today) we'll be a lot more competitive at least

Add those 8 and take out Spargo,  Woey,  Turner,  Jefferson,  Sharp,  Howes and take your pick on 2 more and we're a much better team

But back to our offense ... it stinks

And Goodwin & Chaplin are responsible 

Our method of advancing the ball is treacle-slow and we avoid the corridor like the plague.  And our skills on offense are bog-average

Then there's the actual forward line which is right now, bereft of talent

But all of the above can improve with an injection of talent (especially up forward) 

The other thing that stood out today is our lack of teamwork and the lack of selfless acts

Early doors but it's going to take a big turnaround.  It's just as well we've got 5 winnable games in our next 6 games (Suns, Bombers, Freo, Tigers & Eagles) 

Hard to see us beating Geelong at Geelong in round 4 but we're going to have to win at least 3 of the other 5 to keep the wolves at bay

After round 8, as you would all be aware, our fixture gets tough

Edited March 23Mar 23 by Macca

 

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

Realistically, we are not going to sack Goodwin in season.  But if we fall right away, the end of the season could see the end for Simon

But we'd have to fall right away (7 wins or less)

Right now, we don't have the players with the skills to play the new type of offense that we are seeing from a number of clubs

However, if we add May,  Melk, Kozzie,  Kolt,  Windsor,  McVee,  Johnson & Langford (he should have played today) we'll be a lot more competitive at least

Add those 8 and take out Spargo,  Woey,  Turner,  Jefferson,  Sharp,  Howes and take your pick on 2 more and we're a much better team

But back to our offense ... it stinks And Goodwin & Chaplin are responsible 

Our method of advancing the ball is treacle-slow and we avoid the corridor like the plague.  And our skills on offense are bog-average

Then there's the actual forward line which is right now, bereft of talent

But all of the above can improve with an injection of talent (especially up forward) 

The other thing that stood out today is our lack of teamwork and the lack of selfless acts

Early doors but it's going to take a big turnaround.  It's just as well we've got 5 winnable games in our next 6 games (Suns, Bombers, Freo, Tigers & Eagles) 

Hard to see us beating Geelong at Geelong in round 4 but we're going to have to win at least 3 of the other 5 to keep the wolves at bay

I can't quite put my finger on why, but this post gives me early-2007 vibes.

We are right on the cusp of a capitulation as a club and have been since September 15 2023.

Edited March 23Mar 23 by praha

47 minutes ago, Macca said:

Realistically, we are not going to sack Goodwin in season.  But if we fall right away, the end of the season could see the end for Simon

But we'd have to fall right away (7 wins or less)

Right now, we don't have the players with the skills to play the new type of offense that we are seeing from a number of clubs

However, if we add May,  Melk, Kozzie,  Kolt,  Windsor,  McVee,  Johnson & Langford (he should have played today) we'll be a lot more competitive at least

Add those 8 and take out Spargo,  Woey,  Turner,  Jefferson,  Sharp,  Howes and take your pick on 2 more and we're a much better team

But back to our offense ... it stinks

And Goodwin & Chaplin are responsible 

Our method of advancing the ball is treacle-slow and we avoid the corridor like the plague.  And our skills on offense are bog-average

Then there's the actual forward line which is right now, bereft of talent

But all of the above can improve with an injection of talent (especially up forward) 

The other thing that stood out today is our lack of teamwork and the lack of selfless acts

Early doors but it's going to take a big turnaround.  It's just as well we've got 5 winnable games in our next 6 games (Suns, Bombers, Freo, Tigers & Eagles) 

Hard to see us beating Geelong at Geelong in round 4 but we're going to have to win at least 3 of the other 5 to keep the wolves at bay

After round 8, as you would all be aware, our fixture gets tough

No chance we beat Freo and I think Suns will touch us up as well.

Edited March 23Mar 23 by Dr. Gonzo

1 minute ago, praha said:

I can't quite put my finger on why, but this post gives me early-2007 vibes.

Yep, that could happen too

Just to break even, we'll need all our better players available

Today, we had weak points all over the field ... probably fielded 10 VFL standard players if we're being honest

But the real issue is our style of play and the players look exhausted.  Constantly working for stoppages whilst hugging the boundary line has taken it's toll

Right now, I can't see us winning any more than 8 games for the season

None of our forwards can impact the game so how can you win with that sort of obstacle?  Chandler did well today but is he going to be able to maintain that standard looking ahead? 

As for the rest of our forward options... 

49 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

Yeah we were freakishly potent offensively. Funny that we still have the spine of that team.

Yeah funny about that!

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

No chance we beat Freo and I think Suns will touch is up as well.

I'm with you on the Suns as of the 8 players I listed that are virtually walk-up starts when fit, only 2 umprovens in Langford & Johnson might be available

So the team would still have too many weak links 

Langford could end up being a good player (at least) whilst Johnson would at least add a bit of vigour and presence up forward

I just don't see it with Turner & Jefferson

But we are weeks away from having a decent list of good players available for selection

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Ironically we were one of the most attacking and high scoring teams in the AFL back in 2017-2018.

We leaked too many goals playing a Sam Frost and Oscar McDonald led defence which resulted in him being super defensive after that.

2021 was the perfect blend of our original style under Goodwin and our current one. We were primarily a defensive team but we always seemed to find the perfect time to switch gears and pile on goals.

We gradually lost that skill in the subsequent seasons.

30 minutes ago, Macca said:

And Goodwin & Chaplin are responsible 

And before them, Goodwin and Stafford were responsible. And before them ... If you change the coaches and get the same result, then just maybe it's not the coaches.

In any case, from my incredibly uninformed POV, it's not entirely the forwards that's the issue, it's the delivery into the forward line. i.e., the players further up the field who for whatever reason just can't move the ball quickly enough and then can't hit targets.

Alongside that, you can't underestimate the impact of the players who are missing up forward, nor the lack of experience.

A couple more performances like this and absolutely.

I have been calling for him to be replaced for years just to get howled down by those posters who live with their heads in the sand. 
 

we have lost the opportunity for multiple premierships and need to go for a full rebuild of our game plan. That will only happen with a new head coach. 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, bing181 said:

 it's not entirely the forwards that's the issue, it's the delivery into the forward line. i.e., the players further up the field who for whatever reason just can't move the ball quickly enough and then can't hit targets

Which is essentially exactly what I said ... so what you just said has already been said (by myself and others) 

And it's a combination of both ... antiquated coaching and a lack of quality forwards and a midfield who's footskills aren't up to scratch

But if our midfielders are instructed to kick down the line and bomb it to the pockets, who's fault is that?  I'd say the coaching

Truth is we don't have the skilled players to transgress to the new trend of fast movement forward with precision skills

Our players are contested ball beasts with a defensive mindset (2-way running, zoning off, tracking back etc etc) 

We've been left behind by the new trend in footy and we're playing catch-up

As James Hird said tonight,  we're trying plan B but because it doesn't work we revert back to plan A (which also doesn't work)

And I'm not sacking any of the coaches.  Not yet, anyway

 

In his 360 interview he said that the players are learning a new gameplan and that there would be teething issues. I'm not sure I can yet see what exactly this new gameplan is. We still rely on winning clearance and contested ball to win games, we are not great at creating or punishing turnover, we seem to be chipping around the ball in the same manner we did early last year, and the forwardline-midfield connection is still the same mess it's been for years.

But...

Maybe this is the teething he's talking about. Personally, I have my doubts. I think if these issues haven't been resolved by mid year then it isn't going to happen and it will be time to part ways.

23 minutes ago, bing181 said:

And before them, Goodwin and Stafford were responsible. And before them ... If you change the coaches and get the same result, then just maybe it's not the coaches.

In any case, from my incredibly uninformed POV, it's not entirely the forwards that's the issue, it's the delivery into the forward line. i.e., the players further up the field who for whatever reason just can't move the ball quickly enough and then can't hit targets.

Alongside that, you can't underestimate the impact of the players who are missing up forward, nor the lack of experience.

It's both. The mids are instructed to pump it as deep as possible and the forwards are instructed to present in front of the goal square. We don't trust our mids to hit a lead and we don't trust our forwards to win one on ones.

Personally think it's a cowardly way to play.

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

But if our midfielders are instructed to kick down the line and bomb it to the pockets, who's fault is that?  I'd say the coaching

You're assuming that that's what they're instructed to do. 

Was pretty clear from Goodwin's presser that that's not the case.

12 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

In his 360 interview he said that the players are learning a new gameplan and that there would be teething issues. I'm not sure I can yet see what exactly this new gameplan is. We still rely on winning clearance and contested ball to win games, we are not great at creating or punishing turnover, we seem to be chipping around the ball in the same manner we did early last year, and the forwardline-midfield connection is still the same mess it's been for years.

But...

Maybe this is the teething he's talking about. Personally, I have my doubts. I think if these issues haven't been resolved by mid year then it isn't going to happen and it will be time to part ways.

We're clearly taking it through the corridor more so I assume that's what he's alluding to. Problem is we still butcher it kicking inside 50, we're just doing it a bit quicker than last year.

Edited March 23Mar 23 by Dr. Gonzo

17 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

In his 360 interview he said that the players are learning a new gameplan and that there would be teething issues. I'm not sure I can yet see what exactly this new gameplan is. We still rely on winning clearance and contested ball to win games, we are not great at creating or punishing turnover, we seem to be chipping around the ball in the same manner we did early last year, and the forwardline-midfield connection is still the same mess it's been for years.

But...

Maybe this is the teething he's talking about. Personally, I have my doubts. I think if these issues haven't been resolved by mid year then it isn't going to happen and it will be time to part ways.

Could be that it falls into the category of 'You can't teach an old dog new tricks'

Let's just use Petracca, Oliver & Viney as examples

Do any of the 3 hit-up targets in the forward 50 with precision kicks on a regular basis? And to accompany that, do our forwards provide proper leads to the ball-carriers?

Or do they just constantly boot it long into the forward line with our forwards being drawn to marking contests that inevitably sees the ball often being punched out of bounds? 

They are rhetorical questions KC,  because we all know what the answers are

So to change from our 1 Wood (Plan A) to a completely different way of advancing the ball (Plan B) is a bridge too far (right now) 

 

Edited March 23Mar 23 by Macca

7 minutes ago, bing181 said:

You're assuming that that's what they're instructed to do. 

Was pretty clear from Goodwin's presser that that's not the case.

No you're wrong again bing

I said 'IF' our players are instructed

Learn how to read properly and stop wasting my time

Chandler and Spargo are the only ones who hit up at the footy.

Goody stuffed up by backing Oliver. Oliver has caused turmoil at the club and the club is not over it. We have more than stagnated we have gone backwards under Goodwin. You can't go backwards with a coach you have to go forwards. That's why we must be after Longmire.

Edited March 23Mar 23 by WERRIDEE

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

Could be that it falls into the category of 'You can't teach an old dog new tricks'

Let's just use Petracca, Oliver & Viney as examples

Do any of the 3 hit-up targets in the forward 50 with precision kicks on a regular basis? And to accompany that, do our forwards provide proper leads to the ball-carriers?

Or do they just constantly boot it long into the forward line with our forwards being drawn to marking contests that inevitably sees the ball bring punched out of bounds? 

They are rhetorical questions KC,  because we all know what the answers are

So to change from our 1 Wood (Plan A) to a completely different way of advancing the ball (Plan B) is a bridge too far (right now) 

 

Nah don't believe that at all. Collingwood are ancient and Macrae totally transformed them when he came in.

You don't need to be a team filled with perfect kicks to play attacking football it's more about how you set up your players. If you bring your forwards up higher and focus on creating turnovers then you have a paddock between your press and your goals. Heaps of space for forwards to run into and all you need to ask of your mids is to kick it to their advantage.

You can also cheat forward in the midfield and have your players move the ball aggressively by hand.

Loads of stuff you can do.

I don't think we get the best out of our players with our game style.

10 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We're clearly taking it through the corridor more so I assume that's what he's alluding to. Problem is we still butcher it kicking inside 50, we're just doing it a bit quicker than last year.

We only started taking it through the corridor once North got on top and we didn't get much out of it because we still just bombed the ball in deep to the same spot when we should be being for more unpredictable from that position. I've never seen a team with a more baffling forward set up than us.

14 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

It's both. The mids are instructed to pump it as deep as possible and the forwards are instructed to present in front of the goal square. We don't trust our mids to hit a lead and we don't trust our forwards to win one on ones.

Personally think it's a cowardly way to play.

I wouldn't call it cowardly because playing that way has won us a lot of games over the last 4 seasons (until now) Whilst we played that style and also managed to hold the ball in our forward line, the other teams weren't scoring

But all the other teams know what we do now and have planned accordingly ... they started off flooding back in 2022 and that has advanced to rebounding on the counter out of our forward line (at pace) 

North did it today as did GWS last week.  So by all accounts we are trying to change but the question is, can we change?