12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You're assuming that is what Goodwin is coaching them to do when all the evidence over his career is to the contrary. Goodwin wants them kicking to contests as a he is a conservative coach and kicking to contests gives him greater control allowing us to minimise turnovers etc.

I find it unfathomable that players would just continually kick to contests, bomb it inside 50 etc and forwards would sit back wrestling with their opponents and bunching together in packs instead of spreading out and leading towards the ball carrier if they weren't coached to do so.

No, Goodwin is coaching to a new game plan but the players aren't listening

We trained all summer with a fast paced offense and have talked about the new game plan since early last season

There's no buy-in from the players. They all revert to kind once the ball is in their hands

You need to start critiquing the players a lot more. Stop blaming Goodwin

7 minutes ago, Macca said:

No, Goodwin is coaching to a new game plan but the players aren't listening

We trained all summer with a fast paced offense and have talked about the new game plan since early last season

There's no buy-in from the players. They all revert to kind once the ball is in their hands

You need to start critiquing the players a lot more. Stop blaming Goodwin

We’re playing fast — that’s not the issue! 3rd fastest ball movement in the comp YTD

So what happens if we get smashed today? Any blame on our millionaire players? Or are they immune from criticism?

If we win? Wow, wouldn't that be something with games against the Tigers & Eagles coming up!

Credit to the coach if we win?

3 minutes ago, Tolstoys Nudge said:

We’re playing fast — that’s not the issue! 3rd fastest ball movement in the comp YTD

I reckon that is rubbish. For instance, a 50 metre long bomb travels very quickly

And the kicks are counted yeah?

You know both things could be true, you lot.

Goody and co have made poor decisions and communication appears poor, and the players are failing to make the system work, whilst missing easy targets by hand and foot.

Edited April 18Apr 18 by Adam The God
We could also be hapless off field from the President, to the board room, to the wider FD.

6 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

You know both things could be true, you lot.

Goody and co have made poor decisions and communication appears poor, and the players are failing to make the system work, whilst missing easy targets by hand and foot.

Yes, but on this thread, there's little or no balance

So I've argued fiercely the other way just to square the ledger

And believe it or not, I'm not a Goodwin fan. Nor do I think he should be sacked

The responsibility on our game day performances has many factors

And I prefer players who take responsibility with an ability to think for themselves

We're not seeing that thus the comparisons to 2012/2013

The difference between then and now is that at least we have proven talent these days. Back then we had very little talent

So there's hope

21 minutes ago, Macca said:

Rubbish

Jordon and Bedford hadn't done much when they were with us and were surplus to needs

In fact, both sought trades for more opportunities. Fair enough too, it's not a perfect world

You are stuck in the past

Nah it's not.

Jordon hadn't done much?

Jordons debut year resulted in him being the 23rd player for our premiership so CLEARLY the coaching staff saw fit that he had done more then enough to be part of the premiership team. You simply don't get in if you haven't 'done enough'. Rising star nomination in the same year as well.

In 2022 he played as a pure wingman but also stints as an inside midfielder and half back. So he showed that he had versatility and flexibility to plugs spots when needed.

That same year he played every game until the last round where he hurt his foot and missed the rest of the year. He accumulated 445 disposals and kicked 7 goals. Sparrow has never reached those numbers even to this day. Jordon was clearly in our best 22 then. So you're definition of him not 'doing enough' is completely rubbish as usual.

Soon as we brought Hunter in, it stifled Jordons development. He wasn't even needed nor a surplus to our needs. Complete waste of a trade selection.

The fact a gun coach in Horse Longmire can identify a role for him as soon as he walked through the door sums up Goodwins lsck on innovation as a coach. His ability to continue to stick to the same favourites and crew time and time again has cost us big time.

I've already made my argument on Bedford. We had opportunities to play him but Goodwin refused to do so. When he did we all saw the potential.

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Nah it's not.

Jordon hadn't done much?

Jordons debut year resulted in him being the 23rd player for our premiership so CLEARLY the coaching staff saw fit that he had done more then enough to be part of the premiership team. You simply don't get in if you haven't 'done enough'. Rising star nomination in the same year as well.

In 2022 he played as a pure wingman but also stints as an inside midfielder and half back. So he showed that he had versatility and flexibility to plugs spots when needed.

That same year he played every game until the last round where he hurt his foot and missed the rest of the year. He accumulated 445 disposals and kicked 7 goals. Sparrow has never reached those numbers even to this day. Jordon was clearly in our best 22 then. So you're definition of him not 'doing enough' is completely rubbish as usual.

Soon as we brought Hunter in, it stifled Jordons development. He wasn't even needed nor a surplus to our needs. Complete waste of a trade selection.

The fact a gun coach in Horse Longmire can identify a role for him as soon as he walked through the door sums up Goodwins lsck on innovation as a coach. His ability to continue to stick to the same favourites and crew time and time again has cost us big time.

I've already made my argument on Bedford. We had opportunities to play him but Goodwin refused to do so. When he did we all saw the potential.

Jordon was bog average with us but has played better with maturity and more opportunities at the Swans

And good on him but we couldn't fit him in ... shiiitt happens

It's not the end of the world either. You win some, you lose some

The biggest loss was Hogan but that just was never going to work with us either

You move on

5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Nah it's not.

Jordon hadn't done much?

Jordons debut year resulted in him being the 23rd player for our premiership so CLEARLY the coaching staff saw fit that he had done more then enough to be part of the premiership team. You simply don't get in if you haven't 'done enough'. Rising star nomination in the same year as well.

In 2022 he played as a pure wingman but also stints as an inside midfielder and half back. So he showed that he had versatility and flexibility to plugs spots when needed.

That same year he played every game until the last round where he hurt his foot and missed the rest of the year. He accumulated 445 disposals and kicked 7 goals. Sparrow has never reached those numbers even to this day. Jordon was clearly in our best 22 then. So you're definition of him not 'doing enough' is completely rubbish as usual.

Soon as we brought Hunter in, it stifled Jordons development. He wasn't even needed nor a surplus to our needs. Complete waste of a trade selection.

The fact a gun coach in Horse Longmire can identify a role for him as soon as he walked through the door sums up Goodwins lsck on innovation as a coach. His ability to continue to stick to the same favourites and crew time and time again has cost us big time.

I've already made my argument on Bedford. We had opportunities to play him but Goodwin refused to do so. When he did we all saw the potential.

As for Bedford? We all saw the potential?

That's a stretch. He showed some promise, that's it

Weren't too many broken hearts when he went ... until he started playing well

Hindsight is your friend, Dazzle

I live in the real world

13 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Nah it's not.

Jordon hadn't done much?

Jordons debut year resulted in him being the 23rd player for our premiership so CLEARLY the coaching staff saw fit that he had done more then enough to be part of the premiership team. You simply don't get in if you haven't 'done enough'. Rising star nomination in the same year as well.

In 2022 he played as a pure wingman but also stints as an inside midfielder and half back. So he showed that he had versatility and flexibility to plugs spots when needed.

That same year he played every game until the last round where he hurt his foot and missed the rest of the year. He accumulated 445 disposals and kicked 7 goals. Sparrow has never reached those numbers even to this day. Jordon was clearly in our best 22 then. So you're definition of him not 'doing enough' is completely rubbish as usual.

Soon as we brought Hunter in, it stifled Jordons development. He wasn't even needed nor a surplus to our needs. Complete waste of a trade selection.

The fact a gun coach in Horse Longmire can identify a role for him as soon as he walked through the door sums up Goodwins lsck on innovation as a coach. His ability to continue to stick to the same favourites and crew time and time again has cost us big time.

I've already made my argument on Bedford. We had opportunities to play him but Goodwin refused to do so. When he did we all saw the potential.

Couldn't agree more Dazzle

A great example of a low IQ coach afraid of innovation and design and captured by his past

He has had a good list and has mismanaged and squandered it

Should have gone two years ago as some on here were calling for

Edited April 18Apr 18 by Kent
Grammar

1 minute ago, Kent said:

Couldn't agree more Dazzle

A great example of a low IQ coach afraid of innovation and design and captured by his past

He has had a good list and has mismanaged and squandered it

Should have gone two years ago as some on here were calling for

What nonsense

The list is fat and lazy and living off the flag we won

Self satisfied and they've lost their hunger

I listed 15 experienced players earlier in this thread who all have issues (some major)

The players are at fault but people like you take the easy way out and just want to blame the coaching

Open your eyes, Kent

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

What nonsense

The list is fat and lazy and living off the flag we won

Self satisfied and they've lost their hunger

I listed 15 experienced players earlier in this thread who all have issues (some major)

The players are at fault but people like you take the easy way out and just want to blame the coaching

Open your eyes, Kent

It's the coach/s, the success stemmed from them and the failures stem from them.

18 minutes ago, Macca said:

As for Bedford? We all saw the potential?

That's a stretch. He showed some promise, that's it

Weren't too many broken hearts when he went ... until he started playing well

Hindsight is your friend, Dazzle

I live in the fantasy world

Fixed for you.

Just now, Roost it far said:

It's the coach/s, the success stemmed from them and the failures stem from them.

Well, a strong argument could be made that the players drove their way to a flag (back when they weren't lazy)

And now they are just sitting back with the fat cheques rolling in

Right now, they should hand their salaries back

22 minutes ago, Macca said:

Jordon was bog average with us but has played better with maturity and more opportunities at the Swans

And good on him but we couldn't fit him in ... shiiitt happens

It's not the end of the world either. You win some, you lose some

The biggest loss was Hogan but that just was never going to work with us either

You move on

So what does that say about the culture Longmire has created compared to Goodwin if he flourished in an a environment where opportunities were present for him. Longmire has a good history of this. Goodwin doesn't, he's flawed.

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Fixed for you.

Aren't you the smart one

That'll get you 50 vomits

Wakey wakey dazzle, your team has reached rock bottom right before your very eyes

And you want to blame one bloke? You lack intelligence

You talk a lot but say very little

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

So what does that say about the culture Longmire has created compared to Goodwin if he flourished in an a environment where opportunities were present for him. Longmire has a good history of this. Goodwin doesn't, he's flawed.

Jordon improved with maturity and opportunity

He was never going to get the same opportunities with Viney, Clarrie, Petracca, Brayshaw & co hogging the show

Just get over it and stop your weeping

37 minutes ago, Macca said:

No, Goodwin is coaching to a new game plan but the players aren't listening

We trained all summer with a fast paced offense and have talked about the new game plan since early last season

There's no buy-in from the players. They all revert to kind once the ball is in their hands

You need to start critiquing the players a lot more. Stop blaming Goodwin

Whether it's fair or not 'Macca', if the message is not getting through then that will come back on the coach.

For whatever reason, he can't sell the message and the old term of lost the players comes to the fore.

The players should take their share of the blame, it's them that play the game and are performing poorly but in the end it's the coach that goes and they for the most part they play on.

I remember a few years ago we were playing Freo at the G.

A friend is close to Petracca and she said he wouldn’t be playing as he had some gastro like symptoms. We were shocked to see him out there and I think he only managed a couple of touches. Looked very off.

Heard after the game apparently Goodwin said something along the lines of “would you still play if it was the grand final?”. This bloke has zero flexibility.

The problem is the entire FD including players, coaches, fitness staff and list manager.. Everyone shares the blame. We need a total cleanout of the FD,. It's the only fix. We have imploded like only the MFC can do. It's super disappointing. But it's our own doing. Build the club around Jason Taylor.

6 minutes ago, rjay said:

Whether it's fair or not 'Macca', if the message is not getting through then that will come back on the coach.

For whatever reason, he can't sell the message and the old term of lost the players comes to the fore.

The players should take their share of the blame, it's them that play the game and are performing poorly but in the end it's the coach that goes and they for the most part they play on.

Yeah sure, but I expect the players to be able to listen and learn. Are they low intellect types? Maybe they earn too much money and are now gluttonous

We've got a few out but the named team should still be able to win today (if they can follow some simple instructions that a 10yo might understand)

The team is playing soft, listless, bruise-free football right now. Anti team

The consequence of that is that one bloke cops it in the neck

I'd rather we sacked a few players first. Maybe more like 6 or 8

Just clear the decks, trade hard and rebuild

Because this current team is taking us nowhere (even with an interim or new coach)

1 hour ago, Macca said:

He didn't learn how to not coach overnight

His record speaks for itself until ... we decided to change the game plan (a gutsy move and high risk)

So it's all very good until it wasn't ... the players haven't bought in, it's as simple as that

The fix isn't easy as the coach nearly always cops it first

By the way, with a decent forward line we win the 2023 flag. So Goodwin should be a dual premiership coach (but for injuries)

I think you're over egging Goodwin's coaching record. He's had a pretty good season (2018) and a very good season (2021) and a couple of seasons where we got by on talent and a dour game plan but ultimately couldn't get the job done (2022-23). He's also had a couple of bad seasons (2019, 2024-25) and a season where we underachieved (2017).

He isn't a master coach like a Sheedy or Clarkson and he didn't get the most out of our list like a Hardwick.

He implemented a system that was very difficult to beat but I also think a lot of our dominance in 2021 came down to Burgess (and the assistants to a lesser extent), particularly our ability to run over teams and the psychological belief that we were superior and would win out. Don't forget though 2021 wasn't pure dominance from start to finish, we had a big dip midyear and only won the minor premiership with an after the siren kick after coming back from 7 goals down.

Good coach? Yes he has been. Great coach? I don't think the evidence supports that.

Edited April 19Apr 19 by Dr. Gonzo

6 minutes ago, Jack Vineys Anger Manager said:

The problem is the entire FD including players, coaches, fitness staff and list manager.. Everyone shares the blame. We need a total cleanout of the FD,. It's the only fix. We have imploded like only the MFC can do. It's super disappointing. But it's our own doing. Build the club around Jason Taylor.

Yep. Richo has seemed a pretty feckless footy manager who only seems to get mentioned when he needs to clean up a mess. See: Chaperoning Goodwin in Vegas and mowing Oliver's lawns.

Tim Lamb has not been able to attract any players of note outside of Grundy who was a disastrous miscalculation. A lot of abject failures in our recruitment since the flag.

Goodwin has been unable to fix our scoring issues over 4 years, in fact we've gotten far worse in this area. Plenty of analysis in the media this week showing just how poor our forward set ups and entries are, but this has been a problem that has not been addressed for years.

Several players who have underperformed or are at least surplus to our needs. But the list is the last thing that will need to be addressed after the other positions are replaced. Then the club will have clear air to decide where the list is at and make their moves from there.

Even when we were winning Goodwin had us playing a bruising ugly style of football (bar 2018) that was always about Contest and Defence.

It was never contest, defence and Kicking Goals. It was getting it forward, locking it in their territory and hoping that statistically we'd keep their scores low and score a few more than them.

It was tedious and painful to watch us grinding out games and it would be exhausting and painful to play. That style of play does not have longevity. It would take a huge physical toll on players like Viney, Gawn, Oliver, May etc and we're seeing the downside of that now.

So yes some of them look exhausted and slow, some of them are physically broken, midfield and followers are institutionalised. Forwards are totally demoralised and let down by lack of coaching in forward craft. There's a focus on defence first and bombing it to contests, whilst discouraging leads. That bit is incomprehensible, but SG doesn't prioritise offence.

They're all symptoms. The cause is the coach. Time to address the cause

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think you're over egging Goodwin's coaching record. He's a pretty good season (2018) and a very good season (2021) and a couple of seasons where we got by on talent and a dour game plan but ultimately couldn't get the job done (2022-23). He's also had a couple of bad seasons (2019, 2024-25) and a season where we underachieved (2017).

He isn't a master coach like a Sheedy or Clarkson and he didn't get the most out of our list like a Hardwick.

He implemented a system that was very difficult to beat but I also think a lot of our dominance in 2021 came down to Burgess (and the assistants to a lesser extent), particularly our ability to run over teams and the psychological belief that we were superior and would win out. Don't forget though 2021 wasn't pure dominance from start to finish, we had a big dip midyear and only won the minor premiership with an after the siren kick after coming back from 7 goals down.

Good coach? Yes he has been. Great coach? I don't think the evidence supports that.

And he's not gone yet so don't count your chickens, Gonzo

A heavy loss today won't be good for Goodwin but I reckon the Board will give the bloke some grace (time)

How long? Depends on whether we keep losing and the margin of defeats

My argument all along is that the issues we have are widespread. On field and off field

For instance, hindsight should have taught all of us that Neeld was just a symptom, not the root cause

Neeld wasn't the reason that the club was in virtual administration ( from the AFL) ... we were a basket case and Neeld walked into a minefield

Not saying he was a good coach of course. There's just a lot of other factors

If people here were more prone to saying that our issues are the coaching and the players, you'd probably never hear from me

But 90% of the posts on this thread don't even mention the players being at fault ... and that's wrong

The players and their output is a huge factor