Too Predictable

[Go the Biff 3,414]

On 04/07/2024 at 06:51, binman said:

Am i right in saying fritter was our leading goal kicker for the last four seasons? 

I wonder how dees many players could match that achievement in our 166 history?

In my time of following us maybe Neita, Mark Jackson, Robbie (but only because we were so bad), Jakovich and then I'm drawing blanks. And of that lot I'd only be confident of Neita.

Four consecutive seasons ? That had me intrigued so I had to check it out. Fred Fanning. Before him Norm Smith. That's it.

Neita headed our goal kicking 7 times over 12 years. Robbo 4 over 9 seasons. Jaka 3 in a row from 91 and Robbie also led the list 3 times across his career. The Wiz was a 3 time leader as well, including a tie with Neita. Mark Jackson led it in his first season as a Demon. In his second & final year, Gerard Healy beat him by a goal & Jacko was filthy on it.

I don't subscribe to the Fritta is overrated school of thought. In fact I reckon his results have added merit because he's had to do it in Stafford's forward setup.

[binman 42,896]

22 hours ago, Hellfire Dub said:

Be fair Binman, I put my money where my mouth is.  I pay for Redlegs and go to pretty much every home and Melbourne based game every year and bring my older two with me when I can.  They're also junior members.  

I'm delighted that Goody led us to the 2021 flag, but I'm genuinely frustrated and upset by the years since and by this season most of all.  You love the Dees too so you'll want us to win everything we can and be our best.  You can't be happy with what's happening lately and there are contributing causes?  Coaching and forward line coaching and latterly midfield issues are a big part of our struggles.  

I agree with VDL in that I think numerous other coaches have figured out ways to beat our setup.  This has led to lower ranked teams targeting us as a scalp they can take when we should be good enough to win.  

A predictable thing that could change for the better might be Goody's viewpoint on the game.  I think him being at the bench is a negative thing and he'd have a better view of the game from up high (like me!).  Is this something that's lacking since Yze left? 

It's not in Goody's nature to have knee jerk reactions, but the higher seats give you a clear view of what's happening.  For example when teams are setting up to lose the bounce; or when they're leaving someone outside to benefit from the contest; or when they're going chipping around our zone or whatever other tactic the oppo coach is employing.  An earlier reaction and changes could have won some of those games. 

I think him being at the bench is a desire to have an emotional and verbal connection with the players.  To me it seems like a general commanding from a bunker with incomplete information and a poor overview of the battlefield. I don't think he needs to be their friend during the game, but he needs to be a cold analytic leader.  

As you keep saying yourself we're not far off.  On the whole the defence and contest serves us well.  We do well when we don't blaze away with high aimless panicked kicks from midfield.  We do well when we don't all flood the 50 at either end.  We do well when it's not boring predictable slow ball down the line.  By contrast I find it joyful when players take a moment to look inside for a low delivery on an angle or to a lead.  

Doing the same things over and over and losing is the frustration.  Especially when everyone in the stands can see it unfolding but nothing changes.  This is particularly the case with inductive ineffective forward patterns, delivery and pressure.  

A few victories would make all the difference on the ladder and for many of those games it just needed a couple more timely goals.  

Fair points HD.

I apologise for my snideness and any implication you don't turn up for games and support the club.

At the risk of negating that apology, a frustration that informed the sentiment in that post is what I perceive, to be blunt, as a lack of perspective by many of goody's many critics on here.

By that I mean, by any reasonable measure, goody's tenure as senior coach has been incredibly successful.

It just has.

Dees fans know better than most how hard it is to be successful in AFL footy - as a coach and for a team.

But leaving aside our incredibly long, sustained period of being wildly unsuccessfully, goody's numbers stack up against the best coaches in AFL/VFL history.

How many coaches in the 166 year history of the game that have coached more than a 150 games have a win loss % above 50% and have won a flag?

I'd be guessing, but it can't be much more than 20 or 30 in 166 years. That's rarefied air.

We were still rubbish when goody took over. In his first season we missed out on finals by 0.5 percent.

In 2018, playing an exciting,  unpredictable back half transition game with his flying v strategy (that was a major factor in the introduction of the 666 rule) we had an incredible run in the back half of the season, had probably the two greatest wins I've seen live in the finals and made it to a preliminary final, getting beaten by the flag winner. 

He took the opportunity mass injury afforded in 2019 to retool his method, introducing the contest and all team defence model.

We stalled in 2020, but it was the covid year and we were unlucky that the shorter quarters negated our fitness advantage.

We won the flag in 2021, playing a finals series that some described as the greatest ever.

Our grand final win was ridiculously good. Exhilarating football.

Bang. Bang. Bang.

Starting with our incredible win over the cats in round 23 to secure top spot, that was the greatest 6 weeks of my football supporting life.

We finished top 4 in 2022. Sure we went out in straight sets, but come finals we were completely banged up and were never in the hunt. 

In 2023 we again finished top 4, a remarkable performance given our injuries up forward, but unfortunately we also again went out in straight sets.

How you see the loss to the pies depends a bit on your perspective.

We came our a bit flat - cross.

But soon after we lost gus and the first quarter was a write off - mitigating factor (as was nor having him foe basically an entire game) so a tick.

We played brilliantly for the rest of the game, and really should have won. Tick.

Again, remarkable given no Gus and really only playing 3 quarters.

Why did we lose?

Because we didn't take our chances. 

That's 100% on the players, not goody. His method and game day coaching stood up.

We went into the blues game down our last surviving specialist KPF in JVR, and still reeling from Gus.

Be that as it may, forever and a day, fans and the club will rue that loss. I think we win and we are a huge flag chance.

We were by far the better team that day. We should have won. 

Why did we lose?

Because we didn't take our chances. 

And, I also think we didn't handle the pressure - so many unforced errors. Many of which from our senior players, for example maxy x 3.

And we handled the last 5 minutes woefully.

Again, that's on the players, not goody.

Sure, the non use of Schache as a sub, not selecting Grundy and Laurie's selection could all be questioned. But wouldn't have been if the players had sealed the deal like they should have.

Goody's method and game day  coaching stood up. Again. The players didn't.

2024?

We already had a young list, but started the season down two of our starting 22, two fit, seasoned players in Smith and Gus. We could not replace either, so effectively the list is 42.

Other senior players in Petty, bb, tmac, hunter, McAdam and clarry all have very interrupted preseasons.

And another best 22 senior player in melk is out till well past the half way point of the season.

The first third of the season we are given an insane schedule with lots of travel, two byes and two 5 day breaks.

We lost more senior games when bb is a bust fitness wise, Hunter ditto, may gets his ribs broken, salo out for 5 weeks, clarry had hand surgery and Lever out for 5 weeks. 

We lose our best, most dynamic player for the rest of the season after another sickening contact  injury.

We are regularly forced to select very young inexperienced teams, teams more akin to teams who are a  rebuilding phase.

All the while trying to implement a new method. Which is ironic given the inane OP accusing goody of being too predictable.

We had the off season from hell,  mutiple senior players injured, down two of our starting 22 and down 2 on our list.

And with a two thirds of the season gone we are only 2 points out of the top 8 and still in the hunt.

Objectively that is bloody impressive.

As is goody's overall coachimg record.

Facts are facts. 

Edited July 5 by binman

[Guest]

On 03/07/2024 at 22:26, Hellfire Dub said:

Same thing with a WhatsApp message that came in at 3/4 time last week:  "season on the line, back up at 5th... For Now!" I had to ignore it and not reply because I knew our coach and his staff will find a new way to break our spirit.  

In reality we're too nice and too boring.  We didn't stick up for Gussy and we don't call out [censored] umpiring or AFL shafting.  Our coach trots out meaningless cliches and platitudes so often that I think he's brainwashed himself.  Yet he's unpredictable in doing stuff that goes completely against wisdom like persisting with players out of form or position.  I predict we'll still be here having the same arguments next year and the root cause will still be on his journey of learnings.

Yeah coz that’s what they set out to do. They sit at team meetings and the first thing on the agenda is ‘what can we do this weekend to break the collective spirit of our fans?’

Your last paragraph ie. your description of our coach, begs the question: why on god’s green earth would he still be at the helm? You think the MFC is knowingly self-sabotaging? Why? Why would the Club embrace inadequate coaching?

You’re merely one in a looooong line of people who think they could do a better job. 

[PaulRB 6,362]

Love Goody.
Was thinking about the addition of McQualter during our second quarter surge vs the Lions, as the ball movement seemed very reminiscent of the Tigers at their peak. Waves off the half back opening up opportunities in the forward line. 

Goodwin seems to have astutely brought in assistant coaches to help evolve our game style, leverage the assets and address any deficiencies we have. 

He will snag us more silverware in his tenure. 
 

Go Demons.

[Jibroni 5,003]

On 04/07/2024 at 06:21, binman said:

Am i right in saying fritter was our leading goal kicker for the last four seasons? 

I wonder how dees many players could match that achievement in our 166 history?

In my time of following us maybe Neita, Mark Jackson, Robbie (but only because we were so bad), Jakovich and then I'm drawing blanks. And of that lot I'd only be confident of Neita.

 

Probably but he is having an average season, few can deny this. Perhaps try him on a wing and try to get the flaws out of Fritsch’s game and inturn improve our forward delivery?

The other concern is having Jake Melksham returning from an ACL being relied upon to be a key forward component again highlights a problem which has been ongoing since Luke Jackson left (note Joel Smith being N/A has also hamstrung the situation).

 

 

Edited July 5 by Jibroni
error

[Demonsterative 3,020]

12 hours ago, Jibroni said:

 

Probably but he is having an average season, few can deny this. Perhaps try him on a wing and try to get the flaws out of Fritsch’s game and inturn improve our forward delivery?

The other concern is having Jake Melksham returning from an ACL being relied upon to be a key forward component again highlights a problem which has been ongoing since Luke Jackson left (note Joel Smith being N/A has also hamstrung the situation).

 

 

Fritta is on track for another 40+ goal year if he keeps his average goal per game going for 2024. If he snags a few extra, in a game or two, it will be a 50+ goal year. By any standards this is a very good year.
 

[dpositive 1,665]

19 hours ago, binman said:

Fair points HD.

I apologise for my snideness and any implication you don't turn up for games and support the club.

At the risk of negating that apology, a frustration that informed the sentiment in that post is what I perceive, to be blunt, as a lack of perspective by many of goody's many critics on here.

By that I mean, by any reasonable measure, goody's tenure as senior coach has been incredibly successful.

It just has.

Dees fans know better than most how hard it is to be successful in AFL footy - as a coach and for a team.

But leaving aside our incredibly long, sustained period of being wildly unsuccessfully, goody's numbers stack up against the best coaches in AFL/VFL history.

How many coaches in the 166 year history of the game that have coached more than a 150 games have a win loss % above 50% and have won a flag?

I'd be guessing, but it can't be much more than 20 or 30 in 166 years. That's rarefied air.

We were still rubbish when goody took over. In his first season we missed out on finals by 0.5 percent.

In 2018, playing an exciting,  unpredictable back half transition game with his flying v strategy (that was a major factor in the introduction of the 666 rule) we had an incredible run in the back half of the season, had probably the two greatest wins I've seen live in the finals and made it to a preliminary final, getting beaten by the flag winner. 

He took the opportunity mass injury afforded in 2019 to retool his method, introducing the contest and all team defence model.

We stalled in 2020, but it was the covid year and we were unlucky that the shorter quarters negated our fitness advantage.

We won the flag in 2021, playing a finals series that some described as the greatest ever.

Our grand final win was ridiculously good. Exhilarating football.

Bang. Bang. Bang.

Starting with our incredible win over the cats in round 23 to secure top spot, that was the greatest 6 weeks of my football supporting life.

We finished top 4 in 2022. Sure we went out in straight sets, but come finals we were completely banged up and were never in the hunt. 

In 2023 we again finished top 4, a remarkable performance given our injuries up forward, but unfortunately we also again went out in straight sets.

How you see the loss to the pies depends a bit on your perspective.

We came our a bit flat - cross.

But soon after we lost gus and the first quarter was a write off - mitigating factor (as was nor having him foe basically an entire game) so a tick.

We played brilliantly for the rest of the game, and really should have won. Tick.

Again, remarkable given no Gus and really only playing 3 quarters.

Why did we lose?

Because we didn't take our chances. 

That's 100% on the players, not goody. His method and game day coaching stood up.

We went into the blues game down our last surviving specialist KPF in JVR, and still reeling from Gus.

Be that as it may, forever and a day, fans and the club will rue that loss. I think we win and we are a huge flag chance.

We were by far the better team that day. We should have won. 

Why did we lose?

Because we didn't take our chances. 

And, I also think we didn't handle the pressure - so many unforced errors. Many of which from our senior players, for example maxy x 3.

And we handled the last 5 minutes woefully.

Again, that's on the players, not goody.

Sure, the non use of Schache as a sub, not selecting Grundy and Laurie's selection could all be questioned. But wouldn't have been if the players had sealed the deal like they should have.

Goody's method and game day  coaching stood up. Again. The players didn't.

2024?

We already had a young list, but started the season down two of our starting 22, two fit, seasoned players in Smith and Gus. We could not replace either, so effectively the list is 42.

Other senior players in Petty, bb, tmac, hunter, McAdam and clarry all have very interrupted preseasons.

And another best 22 senior player in melk is out till well past the half way point of the season.

The first third of the season we are given an insane schedule with lots of travel, two byes and two 5 day breaks.

We lost more senior games when bb is a bust fitness wise, Hunter ditto, may gets his ribs broken, salo out for 5 weeks, clarry had hand surgery and Lever out for 5 weeks. 

We lose our best, most dynamic player for the rest of the season after another sickening contact  injury.

We are regularly forced to select very young inexperienced teams, teams more akin to teams who are a  rebuilding phase.

All the while trying to implement a new method. Which is ironic given the inane OP accusing goody of being too predictable.

We had the off season from hell,  mutiple senior players injured, down two of our starting 22 and down 2 on our list.

And with a two thirds of the season gone we are only 2 points out of the top 8 and still in the hunt.

Objectively that is bloody impressive.

As is goody's overall coachimg record.

Facts are facts. 

Agree with all of this.

 Would just add the May playing injured when Tomlinson could relieve him does display one aspect of Goodwin that I have always been critical of. He does seem to stick with his regular structure. I agree that there's nothing wrong with that coz it is a successful model. Its a team game and a squad game. with high attrition rates we need to have replacements for every player trained in the same structures and patterns. every one should be able to and I would say should be replaced by a similar player just to give them a rest while maintaining the muscle memory of the structure and strategies within the players and the collective.

It is also necessary to have a plan B and C also rigorously applied to provide variation to confound oppositions that might structure against a fixed pattern.

[binman 42,896]

1 hour ago, dpositive said:

Agree with all of this.

 Would just add the May playing injured when Tomlinson could relieve him does display one aspect of Goodwin that I have always been critical of. He does seem to stick with his regular structure. I agree that there's nothing wrong with that coz it is a successful model. Its a team game and a squad game. with high attrition rates we need to have replacements for every player trained in the same structures and patterns. every one should be able to and I would say should be replaced by a similar player just to give them a rest while maintaining the muscle memory of the structure and strategies within the players and the collective.

It is also necessary to have a plan B and C also rigorously applied to provide variation to confound oppositions that might structure against a fixed pattern.

When you say goody sticks with his structure, do you mean in terms of his selection policy?

One of the criticisms he's faced is playing favourites with selection. And sticking with players who are out of form.

From my perspective, assessing selection decisions is a bit like assessing the high performance program - there are so many variables and unknowns it's hard to make a balanced assessment.

That said, there have been plenty of head scratchers over the journey. 

For example I was amazed laurie was selected ahead of spargo late last year. And selecting tmac was also baffling given he was clearly not fit and was still impacted by his foot issue.

But like I said, there are unknowns- was Grundy invested, was spargo perhaps not meeting internal benchmarks, etc etc.

One thing I do know about goody's selection policy is playing an assigned role is key to being selected week in week out.

If a player in poor form stats wise keeps getting selected, fans can be pretty confident they are playing their assigned role and meeting the related KPIs (which could include indicators fans are unaware of, such as distance run, maintaing structure, following team rules, halving contests stc).

All of which is a function of goody's coaching philosophy of being system focused.

His critics often knock him for his game day coaching, the no blan b or c stuff. Go up to the box some say. 

Personally, I think those critisisms are unfair, and yet another Goodwin myth.

I mean just this season he gave Mitchell and Scott, two coaches who are lauded for their game day coaching and tactical smarts, a tactical bath. 

But be that as it may, goody, like hardwick, longmuire, mcrae and longmire is a systems coach.

Which is why he coaches from the bench (I know longmuire and Longmure dont)

He does much of tactical work ahead of the game and relies on his players to follow and execute his pre game plans. He has his senior assistant in the box to give him in game tactical advice. 

Which doesn't mean he is inert.

When watching our games on tv watch how often when showing a shot of goody how often he is getting info from the stats analyst who sits on the bench. It's constant. 

The idea that goody is stubborn, inflexible or predictable doesn't hold up to scrutiny. 

To be honest, if anything I think he can be too experimental.

Just look at this year.  

He selected tmac and bbb at the start of the on the back of interrupted preseasons, and in tmacs case two weeks after surgery.

BBB was probably a bust, but we did win games with him in the team. And tmac hasn't missed a game - or a beat.

On tmac, despite us being desperate for key forwards, they instead play him as a defender (perhaps recognising how important having elite kicks down back is) - and almost a hb flanker at that. It's been a genius move as tmac has been terrific. 

After his out of the box selection of mvvee down back in 2023 and bowey in 2021 (few would argue both calls were winners) he selected another in Howes. Out of the side now, he was terrific in the first third of the season and will come back in I reckon.

Amd this season he has selected a young defender, Turner, as a forward.

Put Windsor straight into the ones from the get go.

Blooded the kolt, woey, amw and pup.

He has experimented with our centre square rotations (River, anb, salo and koz all getting a run) and used clarry in a defensive mid role.

After largely eschewing using taggers, he tagged Stewart in our win over the cats, had nibbler shut down daicos and neale and used fritter to do the same to Andrews.

He's played our best winger, Langdon, at half forward flank and not used sparrow as a mid until the last 2 weeks.

And he's brought back players off long injury breaks straight back into the side - melk being the latest example

All of that whilst experimenting with a game plan that has won us the flag and mutiple top 4 finishes.

Predictable?

Hardly.

Far from being predicatable, you could mount a stronger case for goody being too UNPREDICTABLE.

Edited July 6 by binman

[Watson11 2,240]

2 hours ago, binman said:

When you say goody sticks with his structure, do you mean in terms of his selection policy?

One of the criticisms he's faced is playing favourites with selection. And sticking with players who are out of form.

From my perspective, assessing selection decisions is a bit like assessing the high performance program - there are so many variables and unknowns it's hard to make a balanced assessment.

That said, there have been plenty of head scratchers over the journey. 

For example I was amazed laurie was selected ahead of spargo late last year. And selecting tmac was also baffling given he was clearly not fit and was still impacted by his foot issue.

But like I said, there are unknowns- was Grundy invested, was spargo perhaps not meeting internal benchmarks, etc etc.

One thing I do know about goody's selection policy is playing an assigned role is key to being selected week in week out.

If a player in poor form stats wise keeps getting selected, fans can be pretty confident they are playing their assigned role and meeting the related KPIs (which could include indicators fans are unaware of, such as distance run, maintaing structure, following team rules, halving contests stc).

All of which is a function of goody's coaching philosophy of being system focused.

His critics often knock him for his game day coaching, the no blan b or c stuff. Go up to the box some say. 

Personally, I think those critisisms are unfair, and yet another Goodwin myth.

I mean just this season he gave Mitchell and Scott, two coaches who are lauded for their game day coaching and tactical smarts, a tactical bath. 

But be that as it may, goody, like hardwick, longmuire, mcrae and longmire is a systems coach.

Which is why he coaches from the bench (I know longmuire and Longmure dont)

He does much of tactical work ahead of the game and relies on his players to follow and execute his pre game plans. He has his senior assistant in the box to give him in game tactical advice. 

Which doesn't mean he is inert.

When watching our games on tv watch how often when showing a shot of goody how often he is getting info from the stats analyst who sits on the bench. It's constant. 

The idea that goody is stubborn, inflexible or predictable doesn't hold up to scrutiny. 

To be honest, if anything I think he can be too experimental.

Just look at this year.  

He selected tmac and bbb at the start of the on the back of interrupted preseasons, and in tmacs case two weeks after surgery.

BBB was probably a bust, but we did win games with him in the team. And tmac hasn't missed a game - or a beat.

On tmac, despite us being desperate for key forwards, they instead play him as a defender (perhaps recognising how important having elite kicks down back is) - and almost a hb flanker at that. It's been a genius move as tmac has been terrific. 

After his out of the box selection of mvvee down back in 2023 and bowey in 2021 (few would argue both calls were winners) he selected another in Howes. Out of the side now, he was terrific in the first third of the season and will come back in I reckon.

Amd this season he has selected a young defender, Turner, as a forward.

Put Windsor straight into the ones from the get go.

Blooded the kolt, woey, amw and pup.

He has experimented with our centre square rotations (River, anb, salo and koz all getting a run) and used clarry in a defensive mid role.

After largely eschewing using taggers, he tagged Stewart in our win over the cats, had nibbler shut down daicos and neale and used fritter to do the same to Andrews.

He's played our best winger, Langdon, at half forward flank and not used sparrow as a mid until the last 2 weeks.

And he's brought back players off long injury breaks straight back into the side - melk being the latest example

All of that whilst experimenting with a game plan that has won us the flag and mutiple top 4 finishes.

Predictable?

Hardly.

Far from being predicatable, you could mount a stronger case for goody being too UNPREDICTABLE.

To be honest, your two very long posts might have a lot of valid points in them, but you lost me when you said Goody took over a rubbish team.  In 2016 our ladder position all season was 9-11, and until the last game our percentage was 105% (up from 54% in 2013). If we had won our last 2 games in 2016 we would have made the 8 but we lost both. We had 4 top 3 draft picks playing that were clearly going to be stars, and Max had a breakout All Australian season.  We added mature recruits that were right for the club and our young list.  We were clearly going places which is why the 2017 preseason predictions had 90% of pundits predicting we would finish top 8. We were not rubbish.  Mitchell took over a rubbish list at Hawthorn (as did Yze at Richmond).  Goody didn’t. 

[binman 42,896]

1 hour ago, Watson11 said:

To be honest, your two very long posts might have a lot of valid points in them, but you lost me when you said Goody took over a rubbish team.  In 2016 our ladder position all season was 9-11, and until the last game our percentage was 105% (up from 54% in 2013). If we had won our last 2 games in 2016 we would have made the 8 but we lost both. We had 4 top 3 draft picks playing that were clearly going to be stars, and Max had a breakout All Australian season.  We added mature recruits that were right for the club and our young list.  We were clearly going places which is why the 2017 preseason predictions had 90% of pundits predicting we would finish top 8. We were not rubbish.  Mitchell took over a rubbish list at Hawthorn (as did Yze at Richmond).  Goody didn’t. 

Fair point.

Rubbish team was too strong.

Though we did finish 11th with a percentage of only 97%- 8 points and 8% behind the roos in 8th spot.

And it's a bit of a stretch to imply 'if we won our last 2 games' is evidence of being an ok team. I mean, if my aunty had a beard and all that.

We could only manage 58 points in a 20 point loss in our second to last game. It was against the blues - who won 3 less games than us and finished 14th.

And in our last game, we could only manage 44 points, the cats scored 155 and flogged us by 111.

So, sure rubbish is unfair, and yes we had potential, but we were certainly no world beaters.

And certainly a long way behind say the cats and swan teams Scott and Longmire, with whom goody has a very comparable record, took over.

Both took over far superior teams at clubs who were settled off field, had recently won a flag and have big home ground advantages.

Both are respected coaches and i don't hear many talking them down

But the relative strength of the side goody took over doesn't change my central argument - goody has a fantastic coaching record. 

Edited July 6 by binman

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

6 hours ago, dpositive said:

Agree with all of this.

 Would just add the May playing injured when Tomlinson could relieve him does display one aspect of Goodwin that I have always been critical of. He does seem to stick with his regular structure. I agree that there's nothing wrong with that coz it is a successful model. Its a team game and a squad game. with high attrition rates we need to have replacements for every player trained in the same structures and patterns. every one should be able to and I would say should be replaced by a similar player just to give them a rest while maintaining the muscle memory of the structure and strategies within the players and the collective.

It is also necessary to have a plan B and C also rigorously applied to provide variation to confound oppositions that might structure against a fixed pattern.

On this, would we have won the GF if May didn't (and by all rights shouldn't) have got up for it and the club had taken the conservative approach?

[dpositive 1,665]

21 hours ago, binman said:

When you say goody sticks with his structure, do you mean in terms of his selection policy?

One of the criticisms he's faced is playing favourites with selection. And sticking with players who are out of form.

From my perspective, assessing selection decisions is a bit like assessing the high performance program - there are so many variables and unknowns it's hard to make a balanced assessment.

That said, there have been plenty of head scratchers over the journey. 

For example I was amazed laurie was selected ahead of spargo late last year. And selecting tmac was also baffling given he was clearly not fit and was still impacted by his foot issue.

But like I said, there are unknowns- was Grundy invested, was spargo perhaps not meeting internal benchmarks, etc etc.

One thing I do know about goody's selection policy is playing an assigned role is key to being selected week in week out.

If a player in poor form stats wise keeps getting selected, fans can be pretty confident they are playing their assigned role and meeting the related KPIs (which could include indicators fans are unaware of, such as distance run, maintaing structure, following team rules, halving contests stc).

All of which is a function of goody's coaching philosophy of being system focused.

His critics often knock him for his game day coaching, the no blan b or c stuff. Go up to the box some say. 

Personally, I think those critisisms are unfair, and yet another Goodwin myth.

I mean just this season he gave Mitchell and Scott, two coaches who are lauded for their game day coaching and tactical smarts, a tactical bath. 

But be that as it may, goody, like hardwick, longmuire, mcrae and longmire is a systems coach.

Which is why he coaches from the bench (I know longmuire and Longmure dont)

He does much of tactical work ahead of the game and relies on his players to follow and execute his pre game plans. He has his senior assistant in the box to give him in game tactical advice. 

Which doesn't mean he is inert.

When watching our games on tv watch how often when showing a shot of goody how often he is getting info from the stats analyst who sits on the bench. It's constant. 

The idea that goody is stubborn, inflexible or predictable doesn't hold up to scrutiny. 

To be honest, if anything I think he can be too experimental.

Just look at this year.  

He selected tmac and bbb at the start of the on the back of interrupted preseasons, and in tmacs case two weeks after surgery.

BBB was probably a bust, but we did win games with him in the team. And tmac hasn't missed a game - or a beat.

On tmac, despite us being desperate for key forwards, they instead play him as a defender (perhaps recognising how important having elite kicks down back is) - and almost a hb flanker at that. It's been a genius move as tmac has been terrific. 

After his out of the box selection of mvvee down back in 2023 and bowey in 2021 (few would argue both calls were winners) he selected another in Howes. Out of the side now, he was terrific in the first third of the season and will come back in I reckon.

Amd this season he has selected a young defender, Turner, as a forward.

Put Windsor straight into the ones from the get go.

Blooded the kolt, woey, amw and pup.

He has experimented with our centre square rotations (River, anb, salo and koz all getting a run) and used clarry in a defensive mid role.

After largely eschewing using taggers, he tagged Stewart in our win over the cats, had nibbler shut down daicos and neale and used fritter to do the same to Andrews.

He's played our best winger, Langdon, at half forward flank and not used sparrow as a mid until the last 2 weeks.

And he's brought back players off long injury breaks straight back into the side - melk being the latest example

All of that whilst experimenting with a game plan that has won us the flag and mutiple top 4 finishes.

Predictable?

Hardly.

Far from being predicatable, you could mount a stronger case for goody being too UNPREDICTABLE.

Thanks Binman

your detail and analysis is again far more enllightened and articulate than mine. 

i will have to rethink exactly what i meant as it was based on my observation on a few matches I attended and most games on TV. I still believe we have the squad  capable of beating all other teams but we stick to our structures and patterns irrespective of opposition . It appears as if there are miss matchups and slow responses when an opposition player is dominating. You have provided actual responses while i cant recall exact examples, so seriously thanks for your comprehensive response. I always value your comments, you have again indicated why.

I guess I am also driven by frustration with the umpiring which I believe is strongly negative to both our game plan and individual players. Again I dont have your comprehensive and detailed reference to examples and data so I will return to my optimism and hope it will be resolved when we get to the finals, have improved standard of equitable umpiring and Goody employs the variability with our players to achieve the ultimate .

[Abyssal 465]

On 03/07/2024 at 07:24, Kent said:

You will then have to prove that it is Bulls#$t 

Good luck with that!

The problem with some people on this site is that :-

1. They are so biased they only see everything from an MFC position, therefore their field of vision is extremely narrow.

2. They have a belief that their opinion is worth so much more than others to point that they are always right and everyone else is always wrong, or so they believe.

3. Due to the  “positions” they  hold eg: Cheer Squad “leader”, regular at training, long time Trident/ MCC member etc, they believe they are more entitled to express their views than anybody else.

4. The Face palm emoji is their weapon of choice.

Edited July 7 by Abyssal

[DiscoStu17 731]

I just want to say that I fully endorse Goody and our game plan, but some people don’t like it and they think it’s 

Simply Too Predictable 

How can it be permissible

They kick around unprincipled, yeah yeah

Their footy it is cynical

It's anything but winnable 

Goodys crazy of course, like a Viking whose norse 

You want to confirm if he's fallen off a horse 

He used to look good to me, but now I find him 

Simply too predictable 

Simply too predictable 

His game plan is not powerful, huh

Goals - we simply avoid them all

The trend is irreversible

They should be invincible

He's a coaching bore, and he sticks in my craw

I just can’t applause, please just sack him because

He used to look good to me, but now I find him 

Simply too predictable

Simply too predictable

Simply too predictable

(He's not fine, there's no tellin' him my coaching plans)

Simply too predictable

(He's not mine, is there some other way to go?)

Goals they are avoided - all! the backs are right against the wall

He gives me feelings like I never felt before

I'm breaking furniture, he's broken the last straw

He used to look good to me, but now I find him 

Simply too predictable

Simply too predictable

Simply too predictable

(He's not fine, there's no tellin' where the learnings went)

Simply too predictable

(He's not mine, but there's no other way to go)

His learnings are unlearnable

They’re simply incomprehensible, ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh

The footy it’s despicable, huh

Our gameplan is just criminal, yeah yeah

Goodys crazy of course, is the gameplan in morse?

I can’t understand, no, I just can’t endorse

He used to look good to me, but now I find him 

Simply too predictable

Simply too predictable

(He's not fine, there's no tellin' him my coaching plans)

Simply too predictable

(He's not mine, but there's no other way to go)

Simply too predictable

Simply too predictable

(He's not fine, there's no tellin' where the learnings went)

Simply too predictable

(He's not mine, but there's no other way to go)

[dpositive 1,665]

11 hours ago, DiscoStu17 said:

I just want to say that I fully endorse Goody and our game plan, but some people don’t like it and they think it’s 

Simply Too Predictable 

How can it be permissible

They kick around unprincipled, yeah yeah

Their footy it is cynical

It's anything but winnable 

Goodys crazy of course, like a Viking whose norse 

You want to confirm if he's fallen off a horse 

He used to look good to me, but now I find him 

Simply too predictable 

Simply too predictable 

His game plan is not powerful, huh

Goals - we simply avoid them all

The trend is irreversible

They should be invincible

He's a coaching bore, and he sticks in my craw

I just can’t applause, please just sack him because

He used to look good to me, but now I find him 

Simply too predictable

Simply too predictable

Simply too predictable

(He's not fine, there's no tellin' him my coaching plans)

Simply too predictable

(He's not mine, is there some other way to go?)

Goals they are avoided - all! the backs are right against the wall

He gives me feelings like I never felt before

I'm breaking furniture, he's broken the last straw

He used to look good to me, but now I find him 

Simply too predictable

Simply too predictable

Simply too predictable

(He's not fine, there's no tellin' where the learnings went)

Simply too predictable

(He's not mine, but there's no other way to go)

His learnings are unlearnable

They’re simply incomprehensible, ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh

The footy it’s despicable, huh

Our gameplan is just criminal, yeah yeah

Goodys crazy of course, is the gameplan in morse?

I can’t understand, no, I just can’t endorse

He used to look good to me, but now I find him 

Simply too predictable

Simply too predictable

(He's not fine, there's no tellin' him my coaching plans)

Simply too predictable

(He's not mine, but there's no other way to go)

Simply too predictable

Simply too predictable

(He's not fine, there's no tellin' where the learnings went)

Simply too predictable

(He's not mine, but there's no other way to go)

Very clever

or  should that be 

VERY CLEVER!

[beelzebub 23,348]

Dees..

Not Looking to Lose.....

[DiscoStu17 731]

I hope that fellow DLs have not taken my above post too seriously or been offended by my flippancy. Apologies. My intentions were just to entertain and have a laugh.
I can empathise with many of the viewpoints expressed as they come from a place of care for the club, and sometimes from frustration when things are not working. 
My personal bugbears are triggered when inexperienced/debut players are constantly filling the role of sub, and then exiled for a few weeks. Personally, I think that they need a run of 5 games or more before they can show their wares. 
Within the areas of selection and structure, I believe that there are just too many known and unknown Unknowns. 
I believe that, with a decent run of luck, we can go far into September this year, and that the loss of Melky, Gus and JVR last year probably robbed us of one. 
Cheers 

[monoccular 17,424]

Prepare for massive unpredictability the next few weeks with Max missing.

Unpredictable centre bounce and around the ground contests.

Unpredictable kick ins - May certainly won't kick to Max as some here complain about.

Let's see what unpredictability can deliver?