1 hour ago, KLV said:

I think that is all understood. Most of us appreciate Nibbler’s important role in the team, however some of his turnovers are absolute shockers. He’s a good player but he has flaws.

Of course he does.

Every player does.

That's why we coughed up so many turnovers last night. 

Steve may regularly complete shanks 20 metre kicks under little pressure.

Barely a word is said.

Lever is average one on one.

Gus butchers it frequently on both feet.

Tracc is not always one touch.

Etc, etc

Dimmy makes a great point about the estem his team mates hold him in. Jonsey made the same point in a recent game he was calling. 

It's about the package. The sum of the parts. Not a set of weaknesses..

And besides, if he is going to cop a wack for a skill error or poor decision then it's only fair he is applauded for some of his really smart ball use and sharp score involvements.

And maybe even a pump up for kicking 12 goals and the first goal four times (the last 4 games?).

1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

I wouldn't go that far. He fumbled a lot. I would say his game was serviceable. That's a nice safe position.

ANB's value to the team is his hard running and work rate. Essentially he is a link man that isn't afraid to get involved and lay a tackle. Unfortunately, his fumbling and skill errors can be very costly. We can't just find an replacement that runs as hard as ANB, but we can find a player that is more sure-handed and has better disposal. Laurie and Howes are simply not ready yet. 

12 hours ago, M_9 said:

We all know he’s one of Goody’s favourites so regardless of how many times he fumbles, turns it over, kills momentum etc he ain’t never going to get dropped.

*massive sigh accompanied by a 360-degree eye roll*

Isn’t this comment SO hackneyed that even you people who keep trotting it out are irritated by it?

Also, you forgot the bit about Nibs having Goody’s dog or pics of Goody’s wife. If you’re gonna be nasty and childish, at least commit and do it thoroughly. 

3 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

*massive sigh accompanied by a 360-degree eye roll*

Isn’t this comment SO hackneyed that even you people who keep trotting it out are irritated by it?

Also, you forgot the bit about Nibs having Goody’s dog or pics of Goody’s wife. If you’re gonna be nasty and childish, at least commit and do it thoroughly. 

I didn't mean to sound nasty. I like Nibbler and there's no way I'd drop him. He's got his role and performs it well.

and BTW ...READ my last sentence in that post that caused you to spew!

Edited July 15, 20231 yr by M_9

7 minutes ago, M_9 said:

I didn't mean to sound nasty. I like Nibbler and there's no way I'd drop him. He's got his role and performs it well.

Geez, I can’t imagine what you’d say if you’d intended to be nasty.

 I just don’t understand how anyone with even just 10% of their synapses firing could seriously believe that in a multi-million dollar industry a club would retain in their employ a coach who “picks favourites.” Unless of course everyone involved is five years old.

 

 

19 hours ago, Dee-monic said:

Excellent analysis but a little unfair to ANB, who may lack finesse but was often in the thick of the action.

And maybe a bit generous to Jordon, who strikes me as a trier who hasn't quite got what it take\s.

Can't see a future for Jordon either.

2 hours ago, dimmy said:

Isn't it funny how when "we" get a set on a player, nothing he does is good enough.

When a bloke is thought of so highly by the blokes who go into the paddock with, then I feel he is something special.

ANB may not have the smoothness of some players, but neither does Jack VIney , but the Club is lucky to have two players with so much heart !! (Viney's goal should be goal of the year !!! purely because of the attitude that enabled him to do it.

ANB plays with heart and the players around him know that !!!!

Actually IMHO Viney's disposal has gone up a notch this season, particularly on his non-preferred right foot. Not sure whether this is fitness, Choco's influence or something else, but he seems to have improved his kicking efficiency a lot.

51 minutes ago, dee-tox said:

ANB's value to the team is his hard running and work rate. Essentially he is a link man that isn't afraid to get involved and lay a tackle. Unfortunately, his fumbling and skill errors can be very costly. We can't just find an replacement that runs as hard as ANB, but we can find a player that is more sure-handed and has better disposal. Laurie and Howes are simply not ready yet. 

Howes is an excellent kick, as Laurie.

But both would need to do a power of work to get their tank to nibblers level as he is an elite runner. 

And im not sure Laurie covers the ground quickly enough.

Howes looks a better athlete and could play the role. But he's a pretty classy player to give such a selfless, yeoman role to. 

But they could rejig the structure and system and spread nibbkers kms around and design a role for howes.  

Woey might be an option down the track.

Last year the logical replacement for nibbler was Toby Bedford. Quick and an excellent tank

We wanted to keep him by all accounts, but he left to get senior minutes, presumably because he was told he was behind nibbler.

Spewing he left, I really liked him as a plsyrr

Toby has been terrific for gws. He is playing a very similar role to nibbler's, though he plays a little closer to goal - though still really gets up and down the ground. 

Their stats are really comparable this year, but Nibbler has him covered,just, in most key stats. 

Toby has nibbker covered for pressure acts and tackles. And is better by hand.

Their player ratings are almost the same too, but again nibbler shades him.

One key difference is nibbler is 54% disposal efficiency by foot (for context hunter is 57%). 

And Toby goes at 39% by foot.

By the by, spargo (who like toby plays a bit closer to goals than nibbler) goes at 68% by foot, which is pretty damn good.

Nibbler has both spargo and Bedford covered for score involvements.

And is miles ahead of spargo for average tackles and pressure acts.

Edited July 15, 20231 yr by binman

51 minutes ago, dee-tox said:

ANB's value to the team is his hard running and work rate. Essentially he is a link man that isn't afraid to get involved and lay a tackle. Unfortunately, his fumbling and skill errors can be very costly. We can't just find an replacement that runs as hard as ANB, but we can find a player that is more sure-handed and has better disposal. Laurie and Howes are simply not ready yet. 

I can never fault Anbs work ethic.

His is by far and above our leading tackler. Nobody can take that away from him.

Sometimes he mucks up but he's always are best 22.

19 hours ago, Jjrogan said:

He had the equal 2nd most clangers and 3rd worst disposal efficiency. In other words, the less he has of it the better.  And I'm not having a go, I'm just stating facts. His strengths is when the opposition has it. 

His missed handball to Brayshaw running past inside 50 with under 2 minutes left was a wtf moment. 

The 3 word rating was "was rarely sighted".

I highlighted that he was one of our most prolific players on the night, therefore clearly "was often sighted".

I also acknowledged that he was flawed and made mistakes, suggesting alternative three word ratings.

I'm not sure what point your post was trying to make in the context of this thread.

 

 

Edit: also of his 5 clangers, 2 are free kicks against. I'm unsure what the other 3 were, but it's not exactly a crazy number. Joe Daniher had his best game ever according to some, with 9 clangers.

We'd all love him to be a one touch player. But let's be honest, if he was he'd be on $650k+ per year and probably playing as a mid not a half forward flank.

Edited July 15, 20231 yr by deanox

1 hour ago, binman said:

And maybe even a pump up for kicking 12 goals and the first goal four times (the last 4 games?).

The first goal 4 times stat intrigued me when I heard it last night. Eager to hear your thoughts on why. For my thoughts, I put it down to him being focussed/on from the get go. Think he just gets an effort jump on his opponent. 

1 hour ago, M_9 said:

I didn't mean to sound nasty. I like Nibbler and there's no way I'd drop him. He's got his role and performs it well.

and BTW ...READ my last sentence!

“Rinse and repeat with Kozzie” was your last sentence.

I don’t know what you’re trying to say in this sentence but I have the distinct feeling it’s more to my point than yours. 

18 minutes ago, Left Foot Snap said:

The first goal 4 times stat intrigued me when I heard it last night. Eager to hear your thoughts on why. For my thoughts, I put it down to him being focussed/on from the get go. Think he just gets an effort jump on his opponent. 

Concidence more likely.

But as you say he is always switched on. And maybe he starts deeper than later in the match?

A couple of the goals have been from point blank range.

And at least one was because he read rhe ball beautifully off the pack and snapped a goal.

He's kicked one more goal than spargo this season, not bad considering spargo plays a bit closer to goal.

33 minutes ago, deanox said:

Edit: also of his 5 clangers, 2 are free kicks against. I'm unsure what the other 3 were, but it's not exactly a crazy number. Joe Daniher had his best game ever according to some, with 9 clangers.

Nibbker had 5 clangers.

And so did Salem and Melksham.

JJ, may and jvr all had 4 clangers  - and jvr only had 8 possessions!

And tracc and Gus both had 3.

Nibbler is hardly Robinson Crusoe in our team on the clanger front.

Collectively they turned the ball over 72 times

25 minutes ago, Left Foot Snap said:

The first goal 4 times stat intrigued me when I heard it last night. Eager to hear your thoughts on why. For my thoughts, I put it down to him being focussed/on from the get go. Think he just gets an effort jump on his opponent. 

Not that you asked me, but my feel is just like half the people on the board, Nibbler is disrespected by the opposition, hence why his first quarters are solid. He then gets more attention in the 2nd and third quarters, goes down in effective output, but then comes through again in the last with his elite fitness. I’d suggest to anyone to look through the weekly goals, not the goal kicker but who actually sets them up a kick or two before, you’ll find its quite often nibbler, and was (down in form) Spargo.

37 minutes ago, deanox said:

The 3 word rating was "was rarely sighted".

I highlighted that he was one of our most prolific players on the night, therefore clearly "was often sighted".

I also acknowledged that he was flawed and made mistakes, suggesting alternative three word ratings.

I'm not sure what point your post was trying to make in the context of this thread.

 

 

Edit: also of his 5 clangers, 2 are free kicks against. I'm unsure what the other 3 were, but it's not exactly a crazy number. Joe Daniher had his best game ever according to some, with 9 clangers.

We'd all love him to be a one touch player. But let's be honest, if he was he'd be on $650k+ per year and probably playing as a mid not a half forward flank.

To be honest I'm not even sure of the point I was trying to make.  And regrettably opened a bit of a can of worms. He played a good game with flaws like you said.    I like ANB, he brings 4 quarters of elite running and pressure every single week, regardless of score or conditions.    Having said that, I definitely think he's trying to take on opponents this year and create a bit too much when he has the ball (when that doesn't appear to be his strength) but maybe that's the coaching directive.  

13 minutes ago, binman said:

Nibbker had 5 clangers.

And so did Salem and Melksham.

JJ, may and jvr all had 4 clangers  - and jvr only had 8 possessions!

And tracc and Gus both had 3.

Nibbler is hardly Robinson Crusoe in our team on the clanger front.

Collectively they turned the ball over 72 times

Nibbler had 5 clangers. Here is the definition of a clangers:

Clanger: An error made by a player resulting in a negative result for his side. Disposal clangers are any kick or handball that directly turns the ball over to the opposition. Frees and 50-metre penalties against, No Pressure Errors, Dropped Marks and Debits are all included in clangers.

 

Given he had 2 free kicks against, there was a maximum of 3 disposal related clangers. I have a recollection that he dropped a mark too, so perhaps it's only 2 disposal related clangers?

 

Nibbler definitely isn't a one touch player, he is prone to fumbling at critical times (mostly because he has worked hard to get to the ball at those critical times). But the AFL definitions around effective disposal, disposal efficiency and clangers etc arent conducive to this type of analysis.

 

13 minutes ago, DEE32 said:

I’d suggest to anyone to look through the weekly goals, not the goal kicker but who actually sets them up a kick or two before, you’ll find its quite often nibbler, and was (down in form) Spargo.

Nibbler has been involved with the majority of the first 2-3 goals we have kicked in our last three wins.  

4 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

  Having said that, I definitely think he's trying to take on opponents this year and create a bit too much when he has the ball (when that doesn't appear to be his strength) but maybe that's the coaching directive.  

That's a fair point.

Perhaps as you suggest it's a directive - be more attacking. 

And if given a direction he'd follow it.

I wonder if some of entries are similarly affected - ie following a team rule, for example who and where to direct a pass to a leading forward.

How's this for the dropped mark/clangers definition:

Dropped Mark: An uncontested marking opportunity that is dropped, resulting in a contest at ground level. Does not include marking contests with an opposition spoil. Dropped marks inside 50 are recorded as clangers, however, they are only clangers in all other areas of the ground if you drop the mark and don’t pick the ball up again uncontested at ground level.

 

So basically might be a clangers. Might not. Depends what happens after and where. I can see the reasoning but it also makes many stats genuinely useless. They are better off having extra stat categories to cover the different scenarios:

Dropped mark possession retained without contest

Dropped mark possession retained after ground ball contest

Dropped mark possession lost

2 hours ago, binman said:

Howes is an excellent kick, as Laurie.

But both would need to do a power of work to get their tank to nibblers level as he is an elite runner. 

And im not sure Laurie covers the ground quickly enough.

Howes looks a better athlete and could play the role. But he's a pretty classy player to give such a selfless, yeoman role to. 

But they could rejig the structure and system and spread nibbkers kms around and design a role for howes.  

Woey might be an option down the track.

Last year the logical replacement for nibbler was Toby Bedford. Quick and an excellent tank

We wanted to keep him by all accounts, but he left to get senior minutes, presumably because he was told he was behind nibbler.

Spewing he left, I really liked him as a plsyrr

Toby has been terrific for gws. He is playing a very similar role to nibbler's, though he plays a little closer to goal - though still really gets up and down the ground. 

Their stats are really comparable this year, but Nibbler has him covered,just, in most key stats. 

Toby has nibbker covered for pressure acts and tackles. And is better by hand.

Their player ratings are almost the same too, but again nibbler shades him.

One key difference is nibbler is 54% disposal efficiency by foot (for context hunter is 57%). 

And Toby goes at 39% by foot.

By the by, spargo (who like toby plays a bit closer to goals than nibbler) goes at 68% by foot, which is pretty damn good.

Nibbler has both spargo and Bedford covered for score involvements.

And is miles ahead of spargo for average tackles and pressure acts.

Thanks binman.    ANB gets labelled as a Goody favourite - if that means Goody loves the way he gets the ball, attacks the opponent and brings his team mates into the game, then no wonder he is a favourite.  

Wait for your final two paragraphs to lead to ANB maybe being replaced as this forum's kicking boy by Spargo.

1 minute ago, monoccular said:

Thanks binman.    ANB gets labelled as a Goody favourite - if that means Goody loves the way he gets the ball, attacks the opponent and brings his team mates into the game, then no wonder he is a favourite.  

Wait for your final two paragraphs to lead to ANB maybe being replaced as this forum's kicking boy by Spargo.

Goody favourite could be translated as coaches favourite. To finish high in the bnf means 4 coaches are rating his game week in and out throughout the year. And he has multiple top 10 finishes.

I can't see any reason why a coach wouldn't have players they rate for what they bring to the table, even if that's not outwardly obvious.

I can understand "coaches favourite" being applied to someone who seemingly does nothing. But ANB clearly does. Even if he has flaws.

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

“Rinse and repeat with Kozzie” was your last sentence.

I don’t know what you’re trying to say in this sentence but I have the distinct feeling it’s more to my point than yours. 

In the last sentence in my original post I said I would not drop him.

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

Thanks binman.    ANB gets labelled as a Goody favourite - if that means Goody loves the way he gets the ball, attacks the opponent and brings his team mates into the game, then no wonder he is a favourite.  

Wait for your final two paragraphs to lead to ANB maybe being replaced as this forum's kicking boy by Spargo.

I think something that is really underestimated in Nibbler's game is his running power.

It sometimes seems the importance to our method and game plan of his elite aerobic capacity ability to cover distance at speed is not fully appreciated. Sort of like being a brilliant, elite level athlete is nice, but its not a core football skill he brings to the table

Hence calls for him to be dropped and replaced by players simply do not have the athletic attributes to play his role to the level he does. 

Take Laurie, he is not going to suddenly become a elite level runner - no matter how aerobically fit be becomes. Wasn't as a junior, isn't now. 

By contrast, Nibbler's elite athleticism was a point of difference from the get go as highlighted in this article from 2018:

The 22-year-old finished third in Melbourne’s post-Christmas 2km time trial behind Tom Bugg and Tom McDonald, with Demons elite performance manager Dave Misson giving an indication of his repeat running ability.

"He's probably our best game runner," Misson told AFL.com.au.

"He's a kid that's turned his career around in the last couple of years and it's as much his mindset and his willingness to work hard on the field as it is his physical capacity."

Neal-Bullen has become a vital part of the Demons' side because of his two-way running, work ethic and ability to pressure the opposition.

As a testament to his standing within the team, Neal-Bullen has been given a leadership position in the forward line, with Misson saying the unofficial title was indicative of his attitude.

Misson said the Demons use a measure called "threshold running", defined as submaximal running or, in simpler terms, hard striding to work out whether a player is putting in on the field.

Those figures are represented in Neal-Bullen's running figures from the weekend, with the half-forward averaging 10.1km/h in attack and 9.5km/h in defence (both game-highs).

"Rather than looking at total kilometres, threshold running is the biggest indicator of what is, essentially, work rate," Misson said.

"It doesn't surprise us that he's punching out big numbers there."

"He's just become a really reliable teammate. He plays to all the structures, whatever role he's given he plays that role," Misson said.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/92097/running-man-who-has-the-most-kms-in-a-game

Edited July 15, 20231 yr by binman

33 minutes ago, binman said:

Of course he does.

Every player does.

That's why we coughed up so many turnovers last night. 

Steve may regularly complete shanks 20 metre kicks under little pressure.

Barely a word is said.

Lever is average one on one.

Gus butchers it frequently on both feet.

Tracc is not always one touch.

Etc, etc

Dimmy makes a great point about the estem his team mates hold him in. Jonsey made the same point in a recent game he was calling. 

It's about the package. The sum of the parts. Not a set of weaknesses..

And besides, if he is going to cop a wack for a skill error or poor decision then it's only fair he is applauded for some of his really smart ball use and sharp score involvements.

And maybe even a pump up for kicking 12 goals and the first goal four times (the last 4 games?).

Absolutely, no issue with any of that. And also very aware of other team members mistakes.