Stats Files - 2023

[Demon Dynasty 17,169]

MVP - Finals 2023

Not much of a finals series but here's the rub for who did what (statistically) and also a comparison with their entire H&A season rating

The MVP in 2023 goes to Clarry.  May coming in 2nd and Gawn 3rd.

The 2022 Finals MVP went to > Clarry.  Then May in 2nd and Harmes 3rd

And 2021 was > Tracc.  Followed by Clarry & Viney

The combined team rating for both finals (the average of both) a massive 17.5% off the Team's season rating.

A whopping 15.4% off the 2021 finals series team rating of 66.54

We managed to improve on our 2022 finals rating of 55.06 by 4.6%

In the 2021 finals series we almost matched our H&A season rating of 67.23, only missing by a miserly 1% with a 66.54!  That gives you some idea of how well we were traveling.

Of the 25 players that played finals, only 9 of them either matched (for the sake of this argument let's say they got to within 5% or better of their H&A season rating) or bettered their H&A Season Rating.

The nine players were...

Clarry +3.5%, May +32.6%, Gawn + 15.3%, Tomlinson +8%, Hunter -1.7%, Pickett +11.3%, Smith +6.7%, Spargo +3.4% and Hibberd +4.3%

Of the players who played at least one finals game (or two), the five worst player results in terms of missing their H&A season rating from the worst onwards were...

T-Mac -63.5%, Jordan -60.6%, Rivers -48.2%,  Chandler -46.5% & Lever -32.9%

Tracc also posting a pretty ordinary finals rating, missing his H&A rating by a massive 30.4%

Player	Rating	Rank	H&A Season Rating	% Change vs Season Rating
C Oliver	5.175	1	5.002	3.46
S May	4.263	2	3.213	32.66
Max Gawn	3.863	3	3.350	15.30
C Petracca	3.275	4	4.707	-30.42
A Tomlinson *	3.150	5	2.915	8.06
Jack Viney	3.063	6	3.707	-17.39
L Hunter	2.888	7	2.939	-1.75
Ed Langdon	2.825	8	3.057	-7.59
M Hibberd	2.723	9	2.610	4.33
J Bowey	2.538	10	2.820	-10.02
C Salem	2.375	11	2.993	-20.65
T Sparrow	2.375	11	2.811	-15.51
K Pickett	2.338	13	2.101	11.26
B Fritsch	2.200	14	2.324	-5.34
A N-Bullen	2.113	15	2.532	-16.57
Jake Lever	2.100	16	3.131	-32.93
J McVee	1.988	17	2.320	-14.33
Joel Smith	1.988	17	1.863	6.68
C Spargo *	1.950	19	1.886	3.39
T Rivers	1.913	20	3.696	-48.25
J Jordon *	1.350	21	3.431	-60.65
K Chandler	1.213	22	2.265	-46.47
T McDonald	0.950	23	2.054	-63.49
B Laurie > 54% *	0.750	24	2.235	-66.44
A Brayshaw < 7% *	0.550	25	3.883	-85.84
Team Rating	57.66		69.86	-17.46
Top 6	22.79		26.25	-13.19
Bottom 6	9.36		9.26	1.11

< Subbed out / TOG %

> Subbed in / TOG %

* Played one match (or less if subbed out)

Stats courtesy of footwire.com & wheeloratings.com

Edited September 18, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[DeeZone 10,604]

Thanks DD What these stats point out is that We have to make significant improvement in a number of key area’s if we want to remain in the top echelon of teams, we need some new blood, as Adonski pointed out several times one player won’t make the difference we need 4-6 new players to put some pressure on our existing players. We need some new perspective on how to improve the skill sets and get the absolute best out of our existing players. Time and tide wait for no man.!!!

[Demon Dynasty 17,169]

2 hours ago, DeeZone said:

Thanks DD What these stats point out is that We have to make significant improvement in a number of key area’s if we want to remain in the top echelon of teams, we need some new blood, as Adonski pointed out several times one player won’t make the difference we need 4-6 new players to put some pressure on our existing players. We need some new perspective on how to improve the skill sets and get the absolute best out of our existing players. Time and tide wait for no man.!!!

Yes especially players with exemplary foot skills and leg speed DZ.

We probably only have a two year window with the bulk of the present list so we'll need to nail this off-season draft / trade period.

New perspective is right.  More of the same will just see us doing more of the same.

IF Goodwin comes out doubling down on this years mantra of "win the contests and defensive side and the rest will look after itself" and doesn't look to change up the FD and our methods in any significant way then i'll be expecting similar results in 2024, or worse!

[old55 23,866]

@WheeloRatings are the player stats for handball receives available?

[Its Time for Another 4,306]

@WheeloRatings could we get the top 5 deliverers of the ball i50 and how many of their kicks were retained and possibly compare this to say the top 10 in the league.

I think it was last season at some stage there was a stat that was something like Trac had 19 i50's at that stage and either 1 or none were retained and Clarry had 21 and 2 were retained. It doesn't appear to have got any better this season. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Its Time for Another

[Kent 2,920]

"Of the 25 players that played finals, only 9 of them either matched (for the sake of this argument let's say they got to within 5% or better of their H&A season rating) or bettered their H&A Season Rating.

The nine players were...

Clarry +3.5%, May +32.6%, Gawn + 15.3%, Tomlinson +8%, Hunter -1.7%, Pickett +11.3%, Smith +6.7%, Spargo +3.4% and Hibberd +4.3%"

Cannot win finals playing like this

Edited September 19, 2023 by Kent

[Deelightful Dee 152]

I decided to deep dive into our supposed inaccuracy issues this year to validate or bust this hypothesis. The stats seem to bust this hypothesis. Yes, we had some bad games and patches, and unfortunately some of our worst in our two finals, but over the H&A season we were actually 2nd in scoring above expected (according to Champion Data) with 60 more points, only behind Collingwood who scored 98 points more than expected. We performed better than expected in 14 games (only behind Syd with 15) and worse than expected in 9 games (equal 3rd lowest, Carl best with 7). We performed better than expected by 10 or more points in 8 games (equal second with Syd and 1 behind Coll) and worse than expected by 10 or more points in 5 games (mid table). We did have the most number of such large variances to expected with these 13 games of 10 or more points outside expected score being equal with the Giants.

 

When charting our scoring performance against expected, I think we all know we started hot, went through a lull, picked it up after Alice Springs before starting to struggle again.

And unfortunately, the season culminated in our 4th worst (-17 vs Coll) and 7th worst (-11 vs Carl) expected score performances of the season in the finals. 

To summarise though, I don't buy into the hypothesis that we need to fix our goal kicking or kicking in general. We generated plenty of scoring shots and were above average in converting these across the H&A season when you look at being the second best team above expected score. There are a lot smarter people than I who argue strongly that winning and losing close games involves a lot of luck. Our record in games with margins of 12 points or less: 4-7. Not to mention that last goal of Carlton's on the weekend. The chances of that chain happening the way it did must have been one in a million. That is:

1. Viney's hurried kick going straight Weitering instead of one metre higher and to J.Smith

2. Weitering hitting Hollands lace out after being groggy not long before

3. McVee missing the spoil and flying straight past Docherty rather than spoiling or not even attempting to spoil and just hold up Docherty to give the defence time to set up

4. The ball to Acres falling perfectly for him and, even though he was close, he was only about a foot away from hitting the left hand post. 

Some things are not meant to be, and as frustrating, bitterly disappointing and utterly heart-breaking Fri night was, we can't change the past. What we, and more importantly the players and coaches, can control is the response to that experience. They can respond by going into their shell, thinking they can't execute under pressure, just keeping on doing what they've been doing. Based on this year though, I think they will respond by reviewing the season as they did last year and evolving and improving just like they did this year. Ultimately, we didn't improve enough and that's the challenge in front of every club, every year. Improve enough, trade and draft the best players possible, learn from this year and strive for excellence so hopefully next year we can be that good that we don't need to rely on luck to win enough games to lift the cup at our home ground in front of all of us.

[old55 23,866]

36 minutes ago, Deelightful Dee said:

I decided to deep dive into our supposed inaccuracy issues this year to validate or bust this hypothesis. The stats seem to bust this hypothesis. Yes, we had some bad games and patches, and unfortunately some of our worst in our two finals, but over the H&A season we were actually 2nd in scoring above expected (according to Champion Data) with 60 more points, only behind Collingwood who scored 98 points more than expected. We performed better than expected in 14 games (only behind Syd with 15) and worse than expected in 9 games (equal 3rd lowest, Carl best with 7). We performed better than expected by 10 or more points in 8 games (equal second with Syd and 1 behind Coll) and worse than expected by 10 or more points in 5 games (mid table). We did have the most number of such large variances to expected with these 13 games of 10 or more points outside expected score being equal with the Giants.

 

When charting our scoring performance against expected, I think we all know we started hot, went through a lull, picked it up after Alice Springs before starting to struggle again.

And unfortunately, the season culminated in our 4th worst (-17 vs Coll) and 7th worst (-11 vs Carl) expected score performances of the season in the finals. 

To summarise though, I don't buy into the hypothesis that we need to fix our goal kicking or kicking in general. We generated plenty of scoring shots and were above average in converting these across the H&A season when you look at being the second best team above expected score. There are a lot smarter people than I who argue strongly that winning and losing close games involves a lot of luck. Our record in games with margins of 12 points or less: 4-7. Not to mention that last goal of Carlton's on the weekend. The chances of that chain happening the way it did must have been one in a million. That is:

1. Viney's hurried kick going straight Weitering instead of one metre higher and to J.Smith

2. Weitering hitting Hollands lace out after being groggy not long before

3. McVee missing the spoil and flying straight past Docherty rather than spoiling or not even attempting to spoil and just hold up Docherty to give the defence time to set up

4. The ball to Acres falling perfectly for him and, even though he was close, he was only about a foot away from hitting the left hand post. 

Some things are not meant to be, and as frustrating, bitterly disappointing and utterly heart-breaking Fri night was, we can't change the past. What we, and more importantly the players and coaches, can control is the response to that experience. They can respond by going into their shell, thinking they can't execute under pressure, just keeping on doing what they've been doing. Based on this year though, I think they will respond by reviewing the season as they did last year and evolving and improving just like they did this year. Ultimately, we didn't improve enough and that's the challenge in front of every club, every year. Improve enough, trade and draft the best players possible, learn from this year and strive for excellence so hopefully next year we can be that good that we don't need to rely on luck to win enough games to lift the cup at our home ground in front of all of us.

Great analysis.  But the point is that pressure goes up in finals and our accuracy goes down.  The Melbourne/Goodwin mantra is that we play a contested, territory winning, defensive style because that's what wins finals and I think that's reasonable, but when we get in inside crowded 50 as a result, we need a gun forward line to convert hard opportunities.

Teams that play a more rebounding open style get more defensive one-on-ones and actually don't need absolute maximum class forward, but our game style results in congestion inside 50 and we're playing against the best defences - we need better converters under maximum pressure.

Edited September 20, 2023 by old55

[rpfc 29,030]

2 hours ago, old55 said:

Great analysis.  But the point is that pressure goes up in finals and our accuracy goes down.  The Melbourne/Goodwin mantra is that we play a contested, territory winning, defensive style because that's what wins finals and I think that's reasonable, but when we get in inside crowded 50 as a result, we need a gun forward line to convert hard opportunities.

Teams that play a more rebounding open style get more defensive one-on-ones and actually don't need absolute maximum class forward, but our game style results in congestion inside 50 and we're playing against the best defences - we need better converters under maximum pressure.

Now that’s great analysis. 

Couldn’t agree more. I’m biased being a forward and a former forwards coach - I have never been comfortable with how we have leveraged our forward players to supplement our defence. And it really does impact how ‘easy’ it is for us to kick goals and get favourable match ups.

I assume this will be addressed by the FD over the summer.

[old55 23,866]

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

Now that’s great analysis. 

Couldn’t agree more. I’m biased being a forward and a former forwards coach - I have never been comfortable with how we have leveraged our forward players to supplement our defence. And it really does impact how ‘easy’ it is for us to kick goals and get favourable match ups.

I assume this will be addressed by the FD over the summer.

Yes I'm a slow learner, but I think it's finally dawned on me. I thought "Defence and contest" - that must mean we need the best defenders and mids available.

But no, they do have to be very good, but it actually means we need the best forwards available because it's so hard to score goals with 30 players in your F50. They'll get an absolute heap of nearly opportunities.

Edited September 20, 2023 by old55

[rpfc 29,030]

2 hours ago, old55 said:

Yes I'm a slow learner, but I think it's finally dawned on me. I thought "Defence and contest" - that must mean we need the best defenders and mids available.

But no, they do have to be very good, but it actually means we need the best forwards available because it's so hard to score goals with 30 players in your F50. They'll get an absolute heap of nearly opportunities.

Yes, it’s why I ran through in some random thread a few months ago how I hope we leverage our backline strength, not have such a high press and be more of a counter attacking and fast movement team - I also think that will play into the strengths of our two best mids who are ‘hoofers’ of the highest order. I would much prefer they ‘just effing kick it’ as the masses say, to grass for Pickett, Chandler, McAdam, and Fritsch to run on to. But we have to build that space forward of centre. 

But again, it depends on who we get in October.

[old55 23,866]

9 hours ago, rpfc said:

Yes, it’s why I ran through in some random thread a few months ago how I hope we leverage our backline strength, not have such a high press and be more of a counter attacking and fast movement team - I also think that will play into the strengths of our two best mids who are ‘hoofers’ of the highest order. I would much prefer they ‘just effing kick it’ as the masses say, to grass for Pickett, Chandler, McAdam, and Fritsch to run on to. But we have to build that space forward of centre. 

But again, it depends on who we get in October.

I'm going for a different solution - acquire more elite forward talent. We have the draft hand and salary cap space to do it. It's a simpler fix IMHO.

[rpfc 29,030]

17 minutes ago, old55 said:

I'm going for a different solution - acquire more elite forward talent. We have the draft hand and salary cap space to do it. It's a simpler fix IMHO.

I think if we get that elite talent, it will force the issue and we will adjust our game style.

[old55 23,866]

2 hours ago, rpfc said:

I think if we get that elite talent, it will force the issue and we will adjust our game style.

I think that was borne out when Petty was in there and playing at his optimum. We need to add at least one more great finisher to the mix.

[WheeloRatings 1,190]

On 9/19/2023 at 3:23 PM, Its Time for Another said:

@WheeloRatings could we get the top 5 deliverers of the ball i50 and how many of their kicks were retained and possibly compare this to say the top 10 in the league.

I think it was last season at some stage there was a stat that was something like Trac had 19 i50's at that stage and either 1 or none were retained and Clarry had 21 and 2 were retained. It doesn't appear to have got any better this season. 

I have had a look at the retention for Melbourne players kicking inside 50 this season, and funnily enough, Clarry was #1 (although only 1 in 6 of his kicks directly resulted in a mark or free). The best at hitting a target (mark or free kick) were Spargo (36%), Pickett (38%), McVee (35%), and Chandler (36%). Spargo was actually #1 in the AFL (50+ kicks) for overall retention in both 2021 and 2022 (66% in both seasons)!

Below are a few tables including all Melbourne players this season.

Please note that this is all based on my own calculations from the underlying data that I have access to - it is not the official Champion Data retention stats but should be indicative.

Here are the descriptions of the columns in the tables.

• Kicks: kicks inside 50
• Retained
  • Total: % of kicks inside 50 where the next possession was won by a teammate or the kick itself went through for a goal.
  • Mark/Free: % of kicks inside 50 where a teammate marked the kick or won a free kick.
  • Chain Goal: % of kicks inside 50 where the chain resulted in a goal.
• Not Retained
  • Opp. Poss.: % of kicks inside 50 where the next possession was won by an opposition player.
  • Stopp.: % of kicks inside 50 where no player won possession and there was a stoppage (including ball ups and out of bounds).
  • Behind: % of kicks inside 50 where the kick itself went through for a behind (including rushed).

Melbourne Players (20+ kicks), 2023

	Kicks	Retained			Not Retained
		Total	Mark/ Free	Chain Goal	Opp. Poss.	Stopp.	Behind
Clayton Oliver	71	59.2%	16.9%	22.5%	33.8%	7.0%	0.0%
Charlie Spargo	25	56.0%	36.0%	28.0%	32.0%	12.0%	0.0%
Lachie Hunter	89	52.8%	28.1%	16.9%	38.2%	9.0%	0.0%
Christian Salem	40	52.5%	25.0%	7.5%	45.0%	2.5%	0.0%
Kysaiah Pickett	42	50.0%	38.1%	33.3%	33.3%	14.3%	2.4%
Alex Neal-Bullen	75	49.3%	24.0%	21.3%	41.3%	6.7%	2.7%
Trent Rivers	71	49.3%	23.9%	21.1%	33.8%	12.7%	4.2%
Bayley Fritsch	41	48.8%	24.4%	19.5%	34.1%	17.1%	0.0%
Christian Petracca	120	48.3%	22.5%	23.3%	31.7%	15.0%	5.0%
Judd McVee	23	47.8%	34.8%	34.8%	43.5%	8.7%	0.0%
Kade Chandler	44	47.7%	36.4%	20.5%	31.8%	18.2%	2.3%
Steven May	34	47.1%	29.4%	5.9%	41.2%	11.8%	0.0%
James Jordon	38	44.7%	23.7%	13.2%	42.1%	13.2%	0.0%
Jack Viney	118	44.1%	16.1%	20.3%	44.1%	11.0%	0.8%
Jake Bowey	38	42.1%	18.4%	10.5%	36.8%	18.4%	2.6%
Angus Brayshaw	65	41.5%	15.4%	15.4%	41.5%	16.9%	0.0%
Tom Sparrow	62	40.3%	19.4%	17.7%	45.2%	14.5%	0.0%
Max Gawn	70	38.6%	10.0%	10.0%	42.9%	12.9%	5.7%
Jake Melksham	26	38.5%	15.4%	19.2%	57.7%	3.8%	0.0%
Ed Langdon	73	37.0%	12.3%	9.6%	53.4%	8.2%	1.4%
Brodie Grundy	33	36.4%	12.1%	3.0%	51.5%	9.1%	3.0%
Jake Lever	26	26.9%	15.4%	11.5%	57.7%	15.4%	0.0%

 

Melbourne by Round, 2023

	Kicks	Retained			Not Retained
		Total	Mark/ Free	Chain Goal	Opp. Poss.	Stopp.	Behind
Round 1 v WB	55	54.5%	29.1%	29.1%	32.7%	12.7%	0.0%
Round 2 v Bris	51	49.0%	21.6%	23.5%	29.4%	19.6%	2.0%
Round 3 v Syd	52	53.8%	21.2%	26.9%	30.8%	13.5%	1.9%
Round 4 v WC	58	55.2%	27.6%	25.9%	36.2%	6.9%	1.7%
Round 5 v Ess	41	34.1%	9.8%	14.6%	48.8%	17.1%	0.0%
Round 6 v Rich	48	37.5%	27.1%	20.8%	54.2%	8.3%	0.0%
Round 7 v NM	57	56.1%	22.8%	26.3%	33.3%	8.8%	1.8%
Round 8 v GC	53	34.0%	18.9%	15.1%	54.7%	11.3%	0.0%
Round 9 v Haw	62	58.1%	30.6%	19.4%	30.6%	6.5%	4.8%
Round 10 v Port	45	51.1%	20.0%	17.8%	42.2%	6.7%	0.0%
Round 11 v Frem	53	47.2%	18.9%	15.1%	37.7%	15.1%	0.0%
Round 12 v Carl	56	42.9%	25.0%	10.7%	39.3%	16.1%	1.8%
Round 13 v Coll	56	41.1%	25.0%	12.5%	42.9%	12.5%	3.6%
Round 15 v Geel	51	37.3%	13.7%	11.8%	33.3%	21.6%	7.8%
Round 16 v GWS	66	34.8%	7.6%	3.0%	48.5%	16.7%	0.0%
Round 17 v St K	42	45.2%	26.2%	26.2%	45.2%	7.1%	2.4%
Round 18 v Bris	50	48.0%	26.0%	18.0%	44.0%	8.0%	0.0%
Round 19 v Adel	50	56.0%	26.0%	26.0%	40.0%	4.0%	0.0%
Round 20 v Rich	63	42.9%	23.8%	22.2%	41.3%	12.7%	3.2%
Round 21 v NM	65	44.6%	23.1%	20.0%	43.1%	10.8%	1.5%
Round 22 v Carl	40	45.0%	20.0%	17.5%	42.5%	10.0%	2.5%
Round 23 v Haw	56	48.2%	26.8%	17.9%	39.3%	10.7%	1.8%
Round 24 v Syd	50	42.0%	18.0%	12.0%	44.0%	14.0%	0.0%
Round 25 v Coll	61	41.0%	16.4%	9.8%	44.3%	9.8%	4.9%
Round 26 v Carl	48	45.8%	18.8%	14.6%	43.8%	8.3%	2.1%

 

Melbourne by Season

	Kicks	Retained			Not Retained
		Total	Mark/ Free	Chain Goal	Opp. Poss.	Stopp.	Behind
2021	1301	46.9%	23.2%	19.4%	35.3%	14.2%	3.6%
2022	1233	46.5%	21.2%	18.2%	35.3%	15.4%	2.8%
2023	1329	45.9%	21.8%	18.1%	40.7%	11.6%	1.8%

 

Teams, 2023

	Kicks	Retained			Not Retained
		Total	Mark/ Free	Chain Goal	Opp. Poss.	Stopp.	Behind
Adelaide	1164	49.6%	23.9%	21.1%	34.2%	12.9%	3.4%
Essendon	1066	48.6%	22.9%	18.9%	38.9%	10.0%	2.4%
Port Adelaide	1337	47.9%	24.2%	18.6%	36.0%	12.8%	3.3%
Geelong	1098	47.9%	26.9%	20.7%	37.5%	12.6%	2.0%
Greater Western Sydney	1339	47.6%	23.0%	18.1%	37.6%	12.5%	2.3%
Brisbane	1241	47.2%	24.4%	20.2%	35.9%	13.8%	3.1%
Richmond	1128	46.9%	24.3%	17.8%	38.3%	12.1%	2.7%
Collingwood	1203	46.9%	24.9%	21.8%	36.7%	13.5%	3.0%
Sydney	1178	46.7%	21.6%	18.6%	38.0%	11.4%	3.9%
Melbourne	1329	45.9%	21.8%	18.1%	40.7%	11.6%	1.8%
Western Bulldogs	1173	45.4%	22.7%	17.9%	37.4%	14.2%	2.9%
Fremantle	1063	44.5%	22.9%	18.8%	39.0%	14.2%	2.3%
Carlton	1281	44.3%	23.1%	19.2%	37.5%	14.5%	3.7%
Gold Coast	1149	44.3%	20.6%	18.7%	39.6%	13.0%	3.1%
St Kilda	1180	44.0%	20.2%	16.4%	44.2%	10.3%	1.4%
West Coast	926	43.7%	21.5%	16.4%	39.2%	14.6%	2.5%
Hawthorn	1053	43.2%	22.2%	17.1%	40.5%	13.3%	3.0%
North Melbourne	1004	43.0%	20.1%	17.9%	41.6%	12.8%	2.5%

 

Top 20 AFL players (50+ kicks), 2023

	Kicks	Retained			Not Retained
		Total	Mark/ Free	Chain Goal	Opp. Poss.	Stopp.	Behind
Gryan Miers (Geel)	84	61.9%	45.2%	36.9%	28.6%	9.5%	0.0%
Darcy Byrne-Jones (Port)	51	60.8%	45.1%	21.6%	21.6%	17.6%	0.0%
Dayne Zorko (Bris)	66	60.6%	34.8%	22.7%	24.2%	10.6%	4.5%
Jack Ross (Rich)	52	59.6%	32.7%	28.8%	34.6%	3.8%	1.9%
Clayton Oliver (Melb)	71	59.2%	16.9%	22.5%	33.8%	7.0%	0.0%
Jason Horne-Francis (Port)	77	58.4%	27.3%	22.1%	32.5%	7.8%	1.3%
Dion Prestia (Rich)	61	57.4%	27.9%	21.3%	26.2%	16.4%	0.0%
Willem Drew (Port)	82	57.3%	24.4%	22.0%	31.7%	11.0%	0.0%
Brayden Maynard (Coll)	56	57.1%	32.1%	19.6%	32.1%	7.1%	3.6%
Scott Pendlebury (Coll)	76	56.6%	31.6%	28.9%	32.9%	10.5%	0.0%
Zach Merrett (Ess)	100	56.0%	30.0%	20.0%	33.0%	10.0%	1.0%
Brent Daniels (GWS)	61	55.7%	26.2%	21.3%	29.5%	11.5%	3.3%
Kieren Briggs (GWS)	54	55.6%	14.8%	22.2%	29.6%	13.0%	1.9%
Nic Martin (Ess)	58	55.2%	36.2%	25.9%	37.9%	6.9%	0.0%
Patrick Dangerfield (Geel)	100	55.0%	31.0%	23.0%	34.0%	11.0%	0.0%
Jordan Dawson (Adel)	131	55.0%	29.0%	26.0%	31.3%	9.2%	4.6%
Hugh McCluggage (Bris)	102	54.9%	30.4%	19.6%	30.4%	13.7%	1.0%
Ben Keays (Adel)	64	54.7%	21.9%	34.4%	31.2%	12.5%	1.6%
Archie Perkins (Ess)	72	54.2%	20.8%	30.6%	31.9%	9.7%	4.2%
Cam Rayner (Bris)	67	53.7%	35.8%	25.4%	31.3%	11.9%	3.0%

[DeeZone 10,604]

30 minutes ago, WheeloRatings said:

I have had a look at the retention for Melbourne players kicking inside 50 this season, and funnily enough, Clarry was #1 (although only 1 in 6 of his kicks directly resulted in a mark or free). The best at hitting a target (mark or free kick) were Spargo (36%), Pickett (38%), McVee (35%), and Chandler (36%). Spargo was actually #1 in the AFL (50+ kicks) for overall retention in both 2021 and 2022 (66% in both seasons)!

Below are a few tables including all Melbourne players this season.

Please note that this is all based on my own calculations from the underlying data that I have access to - it is not the official Champion Data retention stats but should be indicative.

Here are the descriptions of the columns in the tables.

• Kicks: kicks inside 50
• Retained
  • Total: % of kicks inside 50 where the next possession was won by a teammate or the kick itself went through for a goal.
  • Mark/Free: % of kicks inside 50 where a teammate marked the kick or won a free kick.
  • Chain Goal: % of kicks inside 50 where the chain resulted in a goal.
• Not Retained
  • Opp. Poss.: % of kicks inside 50 where the next possession was won by an opposition player.
  • Stopp.: % of kicks inside 50 where no player won possession and there was a stoppage (including ball ups and out of bounds).
  • Behind: % of kicks inside 50 where the kick itself went through for a behind (including rushed).

Melbourne Players (20+ kicks), 2023

	Kicks	Retained			Not Retained
		Total	Mark/ Free	Chain Goal	Opp. Poss.	Stopp.	Behind
Clayton Oliver	71	59.2%	16.9%	22.5%	33.8%	7.0%	0.0%
Charlie Spargo	25	56.0%	36.0%	28.0%	32.0%	12.0%	0.0%
Lachie Hunter	89	52.8%	28.1%	16.9%	38.2%	9.0%	0.0%
Christian Salem	40	52.5%	25.0%	7.5%	45.0%	2.5%	0.0%
Kysaiah Pickett	42	50.0%	38.1%	33.3%	33.3%	14.3%	2.4%
Alex Neal-Bullen	75	49.3%	24.0%	21.3%	41.3%	6.7%	2.7%
Trent Rivers	71	49.3%	23.9%	21.1%	33.8%	12.7%	4.2%
Bayley Fritsch	41	48.8%	24.4%	19.5%	34.1%	17.1%	0.0%
Christian Petracca	120	48.3%	22.5%	23.3%	31.7%	15.0%	5.0%
Judd McVee	23	47.8%	34.8%	34.8%	43.5%	8.7%	0.0%
Kade Chandler	44	47.7%	36.4%	20.5%	31.8%	18.2%	2.3%
Steven May	34	47.1%	29.4%	5.9%	41.2%	11.8%	0.0%
James Jordon	38	44.7%	23.7%	13.2%	42.1%	13.2%	0.0%
Jack Viney	118	44.1%	16.1%	20.3%	44.1%	11.0%	0.8%
Jake Bowey	38	42.1%	18.4%	10.5%	36.8%	18.4%	2.6%
Angus Brayshaw	65	41.5%	15.4%	15.4%	41.5%	16.9%	0.0%
Tom Sparrow	62	40.3%	19.4%	17.7%	45.2%	14.5%	0.0%
Max Gawn	70	38.6%	10.0%	10.0%	42.9%	12.9%	5.7%
Jake Melksham	26	38.5%	15.4%	19.2%	57.7%	3.8%	0.0%
Ed Langdon	73	37.0%	12.3%	9.6%	53.4%	8.2%	1.4%
Brodie Grundy	33	36.4%	12.1%	3.0%	51.5%	9.1%	3.0%
Jake Lever	26	26.9%	15.4%	11.5%	57.7%	15.4%	0.0%

 

Melbourne by Round, 2023

	Kicks	Retained			Not Retained
		Total	Mark/ Free	Chain Goal	Opp. Poss.	Stopp.	Behind
Round 1 v WB	55	54.5%	29.1%	29.1%	32.7%	12.7%	0.0%
Round 2 v Bris	51	49.0%	21.6%	23.5%	29.4%	19.6%	2.0%
Round 3 v Syd	52	53.8%	21.2%	26.9%	30.8%	13.5%	1.9%
Round 4 v WC	58	55.2%	27.6%	25.9%	36.2%	6.9%	1.7%
Round 5 v Ess	41	34.1%	9.8%	14.6%	48.8%	17.1%	0.0%
Round 6 v Rich	48	37.5%	27.1%	20.8%	54.2%	8.3%	0.0%
Round 7 v NM	57	56.1%	22.8%	26.3%	33.3%	8.8%	1.8%
Round 8 v GC	53	34.0%	18.9%	15.1%	54.7%	11.3%	0.0%
Round 9 v Haw	62	58.1%	30.6%	19.4%	30.6%	6.5%	4.8%
Round 10 v Port	45	51.1%	20.0%	17.8%	42.2%	6.7%	0.0%
Round 11 v Frem	53	47.2%	18.9%	15.1%	37.7%	15.1%	0.0%
Round 12 v Carl	56	42.9%	25.0%	10.7%	39.3%	16.1%	1.8%
Round 13 v Coll	56	41.1%	25.0%	12.5%	42.9%	12.5%	3.6%
Round 15 v Geel	51	37.3%	13.7%	11.8%	33.3%	21.6%	7.8%
Round 16 v GWS	66	34.8%	7.6%	3.0%	48.5%	16.7%	0.0%
Round 17 v St K	42	45.2%	26.2%	26.2%	45.2%	7.1%	2.4%
Round 18 v Bris	50	48.0%	26.0%	18.0%	44.0%	8.0%	0.0%
Round 19 v Adel	50	56.0%	26.0%	26.0%	40.0%	4.0%	0.0%
Round 20 v Rich	63	42.9%	23.8%	22.2%	41.3%	12.7%	3.2%
Round 21 v NM	65	44.6%	23.1%	20.0%	43.1%	10.8%	1.5%
Round 22 v Carl	40	45.0%	20.0%	17.5%	42.5%	10.0%	2.5%
Round 23 v Haw	56	48.2%	26.8%	17.9%	39.3%	10.7%	1.8%
Round 24 v Syd	50	42.0%	18.0%	12.0%	44.0%	14.0%	0.0%
Round 25 v Coll	61	41.0%	16.4%	9.8%	44.3%	9.8%	4.9%
Round 26 v Carl	48	45.8%	18.8%	14.6%	43.8%	8.3%	2.1%

 

Melbourne by Season

	Kicks	Retained			Not Retained
		Total	Mark/ Free	Chain Goal	Opp. Poss.	Stopp.	Behind
2021	1301	46.9%	23.2%	19.4%	35.3%	14.2%	3.6%
2022	1233	46.5%	21.2%	18.2%	35.3%	15.4%	2.8%
2023	1329	45.9%	21.8%	18.1%	40.7%	11.6%	1.8%

 

Teams, 2023

	Kicks	Retained			Not Retained
		Total	Mark/ Free	Chain Goal	Opp. Poss.	Stopp.	Behind
Adelaide	1164	49.6%	23.9%	21.1%	34.2%	12.9%	3.4%
Essendon	1066	48.6%	22.9%	18.9%	38.9%	10.0%	2.4%
Port Adelaide	1337	47.9%	24.2%	18.6%	36.0%	12.8%	3.3%
Geelong	1098	47.9%	26.9%	20.7%	37.5%	12.6%	2.0%
Greater Western Sydney	1339	47.6%	23.0%	18.1%	37.6%	12.5%	2.3%
Brisbane	1241	47.2%	24.4%	20.2%	35.9%	13.8%	3.1%
Richmond	1128	46.9%	24.3%	17.8%	38.3%	12.1%	2.7%
Collingwood	1203	46.9%	24.9%	21.8%	36.7%	13.5%	3.0%
Sydney	1178	46.7%	21.6%	18.6%	38.0%	11.4%	3.9%
Melbourne	1329	45.9%	21.8%	18.1%	40.7%	11.6%	1.8%
Western Bulldogs	1173	45.4%	22.7%	17.9%	37.4%	14.2%	2.9%
Fremantle	1063	44.5%	22.9%	18.8%	39.0%	14.2%	2.3%
Carlton	1281	44.3%	23.1%	19.2%	37.5%	14.5%	3.7%
Gold Coast	1149	44.3%	20.6%	18.7%	39.6%	13.0%	3.1%
St Kilda	1180	44.0%	20.2%	16.4%	44.2%	10.3%	1.4%
West Coast	926	43.7%	21.5%	16.4%	39.2%	14.6%	2.5%
Hawthorn	1053	43.2%	22.2%	17.1%	40.5%	13.3%	3.0%
North Melbourne	1004	43.0%	20.1%	17.9%	41.6%	12.8%	2.5%

 

Top 20 AFL players (50+ kicks), 2023

	Kicks	Retained			Not Retained
		Total	Mark/ Free	Chain Goal	Opp. Poss.	Stopp.	Behind
Gryan Miers (Geel)	84	61.9%	45.2%	36.9%	28.6%	9.5%	0.0%
Darcy Byrne-Jones (Port)	51	60.8%	45.1%	21.6%	21.6%	17.6%	0.0%
Dayne Zorko (Bris)	66	60.6%	34.8%	22.7%	24.2%	10.6%	4.5%
Jack Ross (Rich)	52	59.6%	32.7%	28.8%	34.6%	3.8%	1.9%
Clayton Oliver (Melb)	71	59.2%	16.9%	22.5%	33.8%	7.0%	0.0%
Jason Horne-Francis (Port)	77	58.4%	27.3%	22.1%	32.5%	7.8%	1.3%
Dion Prestia (Rich)	61	57.4%	27.9%	21.3%	26.2%	16.4%	0.0%
Willem Drew (Port)	82	57.3%	24.4%	22.0%	31.7%	11.0%	0.0%
Brayden Maynard (Coll)	56	57.1%	32.1%	19.6%	32.1%	7.1%	3.6%
Scott Pendlebury (Coll)	76	56.6%	31.6%	28.9%	32.9%	10.5%	0.0%
Zach Merrett (Ess)	100	56.0%	30.0%	20.0%	33.0%	10.0%	1.0%
Brent Daniels (GWS)	61	55.7%	26.2%	21.3%	29.5%	11.5%	3.3%
Kieren Briggs (GWS)	54	55.6%	14.8%	22.2%	29.6%	13.0%	1.9%
Nic Martin (Ess)	58	55.2%	36.2%	25.9%	37.9%	6.9%	0.0%
Patrick Dangerfield (Geel)	100	55.0%	31.0%	23.0%	34.0%	11.0%	0.0%
Jordan Dawson (Adel)	131	55.0%	29.0%	26.0%	31.3%	9.2%	4.6%
Hugh McCluggage (Bris)	102	54.9%	30.4%	19.6%	30.4%	13.7%	1.0%
Ben Keays (Adel)	64	54.7%	21.9%	34.4%	31.2%	12.5%	1.6%
Archie Perkins (Ess)	72	54.2%	20.8%	30.6%	31.9%	9.7%	4.2%
Cam Rayner (Bris)	67	53.7%	35.8%	25.4%	31.3%	11.9%	3.0%

Thanks wheeloratings, very telling indeed 1329 kicks I50 and turned over 40%, that confirms that our way is not the best way. Adelaide, Port, Cats, GWS, Lions and Pies all have a 3-4% higher retention rate than us. If we can achieve the same percentage as Crows we would still be in it up to our eye teeth. What everyone has been saying all year lower your eyes and hit a target. Laces out boys. Also confirms that you need strong marking KPF’s to provide that edge.!!

[WheeloRatings 1,190]

On 9/19/2023 at 8:41 AM, old55 said:

@WheeloRatings are the player stats for handball receives available?

They're not publically available, but here are some Melbourne handball received stats.

Most handballs received, Melbourne 2023

	Total	Most received from
Jack Viney	234	Christian Petracca (29)
Lachie Hunter	224	Christian Petracca (26)
Angus Brayshaw	217	Jack Viney (28)
Christian Petracca	206	Clayton Oliver (20)
Ed Langdon	203	Jack Viney (19)
Trent Rivers	187	Angus Brayshaw (19)
Tom Sparrow	171	Christian Petracca (22)
Clayton Oliver	148	Christian Petracca (18)
Alex Neal-Bullen	137	Christian Petracca (23)
Judd McVee	131	Jake Lever (14)
Christian Salem	128	Lachie Hunter (21)
Jake Bowey	112	Ed Langdon (17)
James Jordon	108	Christian Petracca (12)
Steven May	81	Jake Lever (13)
Jake Lever	79	Angus Brayshaw (10)
Kade Chandler	79	Christian Petracca (10)
Brodie Grundy	68	Clayton Oliver (11)
Max Gawn	64	Angus Brayshaw (8)
Kysaiah Pickett	57	Christian Petracca (6)
Bayley Fritsch	48	Kysaiah Pickett (8)

 

Most handballs, Melbourne 2023

	Total	Received	Most received by
Christian Petracca	344	76.5%	Jack Viney (29)
Jack Viney	299	70.2%	Angus Brayshaw (28)
Angus Brayshaw	269	78.8%	Lachie Hunter (24)
Lachie Hunter	230	77.0%	Angus Brayshaw (24)
Clayton Oliver	229	79.0%	Christian Petracca (20)
Ed Langdon	218	81.2%	Jack Viney (18)
Trent Rivers	191	76.4%	Lachie Hunter (17)
Tom Sparrow	182	81.3%	Jack Viney (18)
Alex Neal-Bullen	158	73.4%	Christian Petracca (13)
Jake Lever	145	86.9%	Angus Brayshaw (15)
Max Gawn	144	77.1%	Angus Brayshaw (15)
Brodie Grundy	143	70.6%	Christian Petracca (10), Lachie Hunter (10)
Judd McVee	128	91.4%	Ed Langdon (16)
James Jordon	122	86.9%	Christian Petracca (14)
Kade Chandler	122	79.5%	Lachie Hunter (16)
Jake Bowey	112	78.6%	Lachie Hunter (12)
Christian Salem	106	72.6%	Trent Rivers (9)
Jacob van Rooyen	84	79.8%	Lachie Hunter (11)
Steven May	75	80.0%	Angus Brayshaw (6), Christian Salem (6), Jake Bowey (6), Lachie Hunter (6)
Kysaiah Pickett	72	77.8%	Bayley Fritsch (8)

 

Highest combination, Melbourne 2023

Handballer	Received By	Total
Christian Petracca	Jack Viney	29
Jack Viney	Angus Brayshaw	28
Christian Petracca	Lachie Hunter	26
Angus Brayshaw	Lachie Hunter	24
Lachie Hunter	Angus Brayshaw	24
Christian Petracca	Alex Neal-Bullen	23
Christian Petracca	Angus Brayshaw	23
Angus Brayshaw	Jack Viney	22
Christian Petracca	Tom Sparrow	22
Lachie Hunter	Christian Salem	21
Clayton Oliver	Christian Petracca	20
Angus Brayshaw	Trent Rivers	19
Jack Viney	Ed Langdon	19
Christian Petracca	Clayton Oliver	18
Ed Langdon	Jack Viney	18
Tom Sparrow	Jack Viney	18
Christian Petracca	Trent Rivers	17
Clayton Oliver	Lachie Hunter	17
Ed Langdon	Jake Bowey	17
Ed Langdon	Tom Sparrow	17
Ed Langdon	Trent Rivers	17
Jack Viney	Christian Petracca	17
Trent Rivers	Lachie Hunter	17