Just wondering on fellow demonlanders thoughts on who has actually given us something in this hellish start to a season and who should be refunding their pay cheques.

The following can hold their heads high IMO

Bruce - has been one of our better players throughout, not getting the support needed

Miller - OK not the most gifted player but he's doing probably more than what any expected of him

JMac - same as Bruce, reliable no matter what

I think Brad Green has given something, Rivers plays well no matter what, Moloney, Jones and Godfrey give it everything and I'm struggling to think of anyone else. Yze has bounced back somewhat.

The following have shown nothing

Johnstone - most disappointing player of this season. What's his contract status? Lets get someone with some actual ticker. His talent is on the wane

Jamar - SHOCKING! I've thought this for a long time. His been a passanger on the back of White for a while and now is the time to stand up and he's done nothing. Useless

Carroll - Having a rubbish season. I give him some leeway because the ball is getting pumped into our defensive 50 ad nauseum

Sylvia - harsh, but for Christs sakes do something boy!

Chris Johnson - he needs to show something very soon

And pretty much everyone else has been mediocre.

Just wondering on fellow demonlanders thoughts on who has actually given us something in this hellish start to a season and who should be refunding their pay cheques.

The following can hold their heads high IMO

Bruce - has been one of our better players throughout, not getting the support needed

Although he has been getting plenty of the ball, I don't think he has had enough influence in the team like he should. This includes being at the bottom of the packs more, taking more contested marks and kicking 2 or 3 goals per game. We need him to do that. ATM, he is probably our best player and 30 possies a game just is not enough.

Miller - OK not the most gifted player but he's doing probably more than what any expected of him

Agreed. He will never be a goal kicker but he leads very well. However, he needs to hold onto more marks. It just seems like they are too easily punched away. And he also drops some absolute sitters. He has been a good leader imo and presents very well. With a better structure, he can be a 10+ marks per game player, but he needs to adjust and everyone around him needs to give him space; he isnt the best in packs.

JMac - same as Bruce, reliable no matter what

Had an average past two weeks, but I'm confident that his presence on the field is enough. He was never a prolific ball winner before he was considered a leader anyway. Furthermore, it's always good to have an in and under player like him. A true demon. Will always give 100%.

I think Brad Green has given something (One good week against Geelong and a good week against Freo is not enough for me; we were depelted and he did ok considering the circumstances, but, like Bruce, should have been better. Saints and Hawks games he seemed disinterested. He is 50/50 for me on the season; been too inconsistent, which is the story of his career.), Rivers plays well no matter what (agreed), Moloney, Jones and Godfrey give it everything and I'm struggling to think of anyone else (double agreed. probably our better three, though Jones seems to have lost a little touch from last year. Maybe the injury is good and he will get some rest and game time through Sandy. Still young). Yze has bounced back somewhat (What games have you been watching? One great game against Freo and 3 really bad ones. How is that bouncing back?).

The following have shown nothing

Johnstone - most disappointing player of this season. What's his contract status? Lets get someone with some actual ticker. His talent is on the wane (has never been interested and never will be. Our most tradeable asset. I'm sick of this guy. Biggest waste of talent ever. Gambles his money and our patience.)

Jamar - SHOCKING! I've thought this for a long time. His been a passanger on the back of White for a while and now is the time to stand up and he's done nothing. Useless (Besides him being a pretty good tap ruckman, his football smarts are just, well, non-existent. Can't get the ball and his kicking technique is terrible. Has improved in front of goal and can only get better. A little harsh, but atm is our only true backup ruckman. Be prepared for him to be our number 1 ruckman in 2 or 3 years, unless we draft a superstar who is ready to ruck in the AFL from day one)

Carroll - Having a rubbish season. I give him some leeway because the ball is getting pumped into our defensive 50 ad nauseum Not a rubbish season, but a tough one. Pretty much been thrown to the wolves straight away because the ball gets pumped in so often this season (i think we average like 21 goals a game). Help hasnt been that great but has done ok. Seems to have forgotten how to punch a ball, though.)

Sylvia - harsh, but for Christs sakes do something boy! Yeah, harsh. Yet to live up to expectations though. Injury has hurt him. Does his absolute heart out though. Maybe if he focused a little more on his disposal than on his hair he'd do better...)

Chris Johnson - he needs to show something very soon (i'm over this guy. does nothing for me.)

And pretty much everyone else has been mediocre. (agreed...)

Johnstone is a joke of a player, most people dont rate or respect him for all the reasons already mentioned and rightly so. He is lazy and not committed. His season so far has been beyond disappointing.

Dont get me started on sylvia. I cant stand players who get by on their reputations. He should not be in the side at the moment, even with these injuries. He isnt contributing at all and just doesnt know how to read the play or get amongst the packs to use his body strength. It is clear he was a waste at pick 3. We could have had Ryan Griffen. How good would it have been to get Brocky and griffen from that draft.

Chris Johnson is, like many of our players, a good sandringham player. He doesnt have what it takes for AFL.

Jamar = DUD

P Johnson = DUD

White = time to retire

It is clear he was a waste at pick 3. We could have had Ryan Griffen. How good would it have been to get Brocky and griffen from that draft.

Ryan Griffen was taken in the 2004 draft, Sylvia was taken in the 2003 draft.

Ryan Griffen was taken in the 2004 draft, Sylvia was taken in the 2003 draft.

Stop interrupting with facts. Gees!

Ryan Griffen was taken in the 2004 draft, Sylvia was taken in the 2003 draft.

fair enough my mistake. well im sure there were some very handy players taken after him. That was my point.

fair enough my mistake. well im sure there were some very handy players taken after him. That was my point.

Let's see..... Hmmm..... 2003 Draft......

Players taken after Sylvia.....

Farren Ray (WB)

Keppler Bradley (Ess)

Kane Tenace (Geel)

Raph Clarke (StK)

Beau Waters (WC)

Brent Stanton (Ess)

Amon Buchanan (Syd)

Michael Pettigrew (Port)

Sam Fisher (StK)

Ben Hudson (Adel)

Michael Rischitelli (Bris)

Shane Tuck (Rich)

Andrew Raines (Rich)

All of these have gone on to be good, but not exeptional footballers.....

Sylvia had that X factor.... Just the OP has ruined him early....

Don't lose hope! - He hasn't!!

Farren Ray (WB)

Keppler Bradley (Ess)

Kane Tenace (Geel)

Raph Clarke (StK)

Beau Waters (WC)

Brent Stanton (Ess)

Amon Buchanan (Syd)

Michael Pettigrew (Port)

Sam Fisher (StK)

Ben Hudson (Adel)

Michael Rischitelli (Bris)

Shane Tuck (Rich)

Andrew Raines (Rich)

In hindsight Waters, Hudson or Rischitelli would have been the way to go.

In hindsight Waters, Hudson or Rischitelli would have been the way to go.

In hindsight I'm glad we picked Brock and not Tenace - as many supporters wanted.

In hindsight I'm glad we picked Brock and not Tenace - as many supporters wanted.

In hindsight, I'm glad Brock's parents met and produced such gift for us!!

In hindsight, I'm glad Brock's parents met and produced such gift for us!!

PURE GOLD!

sylvia will come good if the injuries go away

funny how people always defend godfrey for his willingness to run and chase and try hard, sylvia does the same but gets bagged for it

sylvia will come good if the injuries go away

Agree 100%

Guaranteed if we were to trade the boy, then whoever picked him up would have a star in their side! A player with so much skill and aggression doesn't just turn into a hack.... Injuries have robbed him of his junior days, but that is not to say he won't be a great player over the next 4-5 years!!

funny how people always defend godfrey for his willingness to run and chase and try hard, sylvia does the same but gets bagged for it

Funny how people always defend Sylvia for his exceptional skill and his "X-factor" but Godfrey attempts the same and gets bagged for it :D

Chris Johnson is, like many of our players, a good sandringham player. He doesnt have what it takes for AFL.

I've been really disappointed in this kid.

Had a stellar NAB Cup V Hawthorn where he was everywhere and kicked a classy super goal, and then followed this up with a 9/10 performance against Richmond at Princes Park. I was convinced then and there that CJ's time had arrived.

How wrong I was. CJ has been averaging about 10 touches a game, doesn't do any damage and gets caught too often (ie - V Sydney in our defensive when Micky O chased him down which resulted in a Swans goal)

Like so many of our players at the moment, he's too good for Sandy but not good enough at AFL level.

I've been really disappointed in this kid.

Had a stellar NAB Cup V Hawthorn where he was everywhere and kicked a classy super goal, and then followed this up with a 9/10 performance against Richmond at Princes Park. I was convinced then and there that CJ's time had arrived.

How wrong I was. CJ has been averaging about 10 touches a game, doesn't do any damage and gets caught too often (ie - V Sydney in our defensive when Micky O chased him down which resulted in a Swans goal)

Like so many of our players at the moment, he's too good for Sandy but not good enough at AFL level.

I have spoken to CJ on numerous occasions, and I am left in no doubt that it is a confidence thing. He has very little of it, because Daniher has none in him. New coach will bring out the best in him.

Amazing. Daniher is giving him significant game time. Hardly a vote of no confidence.

BTW, would CJ be prepared to back your assessment of Daniher?

Its no wonder some players are sheepish about talking to the public.

I don't think he is getting significant game time at all. Quite the opposite. And CJ didnt say he explicitly said that to me - but I reckon it's definitely the case, and I'm not breaking a confidence, because I think it's obvious to most.

And CJ didnt say he explicitly said that to me - but I reckon it's definitely the case, and I'm not breaking a confidence, because I think it's obvious to most.

"Seems like". "Looks like". "Appears to be". "I reckon". "I think it's obvious".

Too much opinion parading as fact on this board at the moment.

"Seems like". "Looks like". "Appears to be". "I reckon". "I think it's obvious".

Too much opinion parading as fact on this board at the moment.

Absolutely Maurie. Absolutely

Choko's original e-mail suggested from his "converations" with CJ that CJ had no confidence because ND had no confidence in him when all the time its the poster's opinion of the matters.

Both CJ and ND have been misrepresented here and the disclosure of such "conversations" had no bearing or relevance on the poster ultimately giving his opinion.

I think it can be tough on players when their position in the team is constantly under question and they're not sure about their abilities at AFL level. I know many players have said that they didn't play as well as they could until they'd become more confident of their spot in the team, and perhaps CJ does indeed need more confidence.

Personally I'd be trying to get as many games as I could into him this year.

PURE GOLD!

sylvia will come good if the injuries go away

funny how people always defend godfrey for his willingness to run and chase and try hard, sylvia does the same but gets bagged for it

'condemned 84', neither of these players ought to be bagged, they both put their bodies on the line where others won't & both have a crack even when things aren't going well. They're not the ones who drop their heads & their bundles...

I think it can be tough on players when their position in the team is constantly under question and they're not sure about their abilities at AFL level. I know many players have said that they didn't play as well as they could until they'd become more confident of their spot in the team, and perhaps CJ does indeed need more confidence.

Personally I'd be trying to get as many games as I could into him this year.

I would agree Rogue. FWIW, I think it is very difficult for younger players like Bell, Bate and CJ to often make their way and get establish when the side is under siege as the current line up is. We are probably expecting as much from CJ as we are from other more established players and I dont think that is reasonable. Its a hard learning experience but I would hope an invaluable one that is useful as he gains more experience.

'condemned 84', neither of these players ought to be bagged, they both put their bodies on the line where others won't & both have a crack even when things aren't going well. They're not the ones who drop their heads & their bundles...

Too true.

FCS. Sylvia is still not free from OP yet. Godfrey is there to do a particular job. If he does it then fine. If we were seriously battling for Top 4 in September I am not sure I would want to have him in the line up. But given the lack of head down players we have given injuries, he has my full support.