Get rid of him. I've been saying it for 5 years. GET RID OF HIM!!!!

there is no order to who has said any of this first...but we now have enough threads ( in a fashion ) to thatch together a reasonable image of what is wrong .

For a man called the "rev" ....who espouses belief in his men, especially to pull themselves back from obscurity or from spinning endless into the abyss, he seems extremely reluctant to give real credence to the belief his club has in its youth, its draft picks etc...As pointed out here...Micky Mouse at wobbly land is onto the remedy, the same one Sheeds has known for ..well , it seems forever. Play the people whom youve shown enough interet in to draft etc. What do you do otherwise,keep them under lock and key forever til they grow tired of waiting ?

These guys want to play. They have shown they can at a 'cetain' level. what do we lose by playing some?...oh gosh..w e migh lose. Neale, the word is we probably might anyway so playing them now is almost at no cost, or would you rather wait til everything is actually on the line ?

As CB points... as a club we are way too conservative at the most inappropriate times.

Now is not the time to retreat back into mediocrity but an occasion to treat adversity as opportunity. I too would love to see Juice in...also what has Dunn done ( sorry ) to deserve his incarceration at Coventry ? Hopefully Petterd might get a few minutes.

Dappa ..youre not the broken record.. its our club :-( round and round we go, same ol' hurtful cries of "nearly there's" all accompanied to the jouous strains of " we played some dumb football".........."we played some dumb football '..." we played some dumb................ "

Its now ten years of this brand of religion; the skies have opened all but too infrequently, with forecasts of sunshine but only delivery of rain.

Apologies , i dont recall who said it here , but they were dead right, Danners seems incapable of originality only the poor copying of others ideas. And all i see coming is repeat failure. Something has to change.

Win, lose or draw on Sunday, the so-called coach is not coaching for the future. No flair, no imagination, no faith in his kids. And no future at this club. And they want more people as members. People (other than we morons who sign on year after year) join in anticipation of the excitement and flair. Why is it that we forever sit near the bottom of the membership ladder? The last time we introduced a whole lot of kids at once was 2000, the only really great year the rev's had. And he didn't learn from it.

Win, lose or draw on Sunday, the so-called coach is not coaching for the future. No flair, no imagination, no faith in his kids. And no future at this club. And they want more people as members. People (other than we morons who sign on year after year) join in anticipation of the excitement and flair. Why is it that we forever sit near the bottom of the membership ladder? The last time we introduced a whole lot of kids at once was 2000, the only really great year the rev's had. And he didn't learn from it.

The future? Weren't we all saying at the start of the year that this year was our year? By playing "the kids", you're conceding that your year is stuffed so you then start using it to improve your future players. If it was round 15 and we were languishing near the bottom I'd agree with you, but after round 2? Get a grip. We've played like crap so far but our season isn't over yet.

Neale's still thinking short term and so he should. He's under a lot of fire so far this season and so he should be with the way the team has played, however I don't think "he's not thinking of the future!!" is a fair criticism to be leveled at him. Yet.

I think some of you guys are living in lala land.

Best way to damage already damaged goods in Juice, is by playing him in a tight, aggressive and mentally tough Cat backline.

There is NO WAY Juice is ready for game time.

Of all the youngsters on the list, Petterd is the only one close to being ready for blooding. I would've considered Bucks, but with Bate and CJ so down on confidence at the minute, it would be irresponsible to play any other youngsters.

Bravo Finks and Nasher.

At least some common sense still around.

Of all the youngsters on the list, Petterd is the only one close to being ready for blooding. I would've considered Bucks, but with Bate and CJ so down on confidence at the minute, it would be irresponsible to play any other youngsters.

Yep, La La Land.

Its a lamentable scenario eh Finks..we have had 10 years under the present coach to develop a list and be a capable force and yet today we still find ourselves rehashing ancient plywood and squabbling over the mental fragility of our teenage future. La La land indeed.

The season is far from over - yes it is disappointing a 0-2 start and with some serious injuries to our best players but there is no better time to show the football world that this squad has ticker, it has mongrel and has a way to win... these are things that the Demons over the years have been accused of lacking

I would be disappointed if Ferguson was not to play - the job that he did on Nathan Ablett in last year's VFL GRand Final nearly earnt him best on ground.

It is time that some of those players that have been in the system, been on the cusp of senior footy and in and out of the seniors stand up.... I mean a Paul Johnson is a big unit - he should be putting fear into opposition! Ryan Ferguson as listed above is also one.... the Biz, well prove us footy has not passed you by!!

Ricky "Bobby" Pettard should play - this kid has self confidence that would be hard to shatter but at the same time is realistic about the season ahead and his role....

Can we win? Probably not but if we play a better brand of footy than the previous two weeks, that we work for each other and run hard, we make the right decisions and we play disciplined football - we are not without a chance!!

rehashing ancient plywood and squabbling over the mental fragility of our teenage future.

Yep, Juice, as sad as it is to accept, is fragile... and anyone calling for him to play this week, is indeed in lala land.

I think the FD has done just fine in developing our youngsters. And they've gone a long way in recruiting mentally strong teens in Petterd, Garland and Frawley. Jones and Barts are mentally strong. Brock and Sylvia are mentally strong. Bucks and CJ have a fighting spirit. Jury is still out on Bate IMO, but signs are good.

Injury is cruel... and i can't remember being so depleted. But of the youngsters available for this week, the choice is very limited.

I'm sure that Danners isn't stoked about playing his 'ancient plywood'. But team balance is important.

I agree with most that it would be great to see the kids play this weekend, however...

The season is not over (even though it might feel like it). ND has to do the right thing and try to get us back on track. It is not time to experiment, just yet. ND has no choice but to look to our experienced players whever its Godfrey, Holland or Yze.

Just take solace in the fact that if they can't get the job done they will be gone next year along with the coach.

I think playing just one debutant is a good start this week.

By the way, Neitz and Robbo are out for the best part of a month so Newton will get a chance, just not this week.

Once again, just a simple matter of disagreement.

I'd place Petterd WELL behind Buckley and Newton in readiness for Sunday. Why? Physicality. He is just so tiny. Pretty much the only fault with his games that I've seen so far is his size. Newton has played on an ex-AFL defender in Cloke and gone well, he loves the physical side of things, and had he not been placed on a wing last round I'm CERTAIN we'd all be calling for his inclusion. He's in his 3rd year with the AFL. Even IF you don't count his first year because he is a bottom ager, he's still old enough to be looking to debut. He's put on enouhgh weight, he hasn't got THAT far to go in terms of size.

If we're talking about players being crucified in the pressure of a tough, hard-fought game, well then aren't we just pussyfooting a little bit? Even IF players like Ward play blinders and get 30 possessions of the back line, we are actually worse off... We know without a shadow of a doubt that he'll get those touches going up the wing, kicking to safe options if he's low on kicking confidence. Even IF the older fringe players play well we are guaranteed a loss...

I can respect your position in wanting to retrieve a match by playing mature players, but you'll find there is a minority here that want to play the younger guys FOR THE SAME REASON. Now fair enough, If Buckley's behind Bate and CJ, then he may struggle. I don't advocate his inclusion. But Juice is ALMOST as ready as he'll ever be from what I've seen in the last month.

I think you mistake our desire to blood one or two guys for "giving up" on 2007. It's quite the opposite actually.

he loves the physical side of things

Yep, Juice, as sad as it is to accept, is fragile... and anyone calling for him to play this week, is indeed in lala land.

Based on what? HOW is he fragile? I've gone and watched him for the past month and I've seen no evidence of ANY kind of fragility.

I have the distinct feeling that even if Newt gets a game in the month Neita has off, people are going to denounce his promotion. He could get a game in a year and people would still say he's too mentally weak and NOT to play him.

Yes, one month of good footy isn't enough to warrant an about-face on the kid, but we have 3 of our best 4 KP forwards out, and like it or not, he has shown good form in the pre-season. I'm not saying he's earned a callup to a full strength demon forward line, but he's certainly right to go for the team as it is now.

You betcha mate. From what I've seen he was bumping and tackling and chasing as much as you'd want ANY player to do. I vaguely remember you've been down to see him this year. Did you not see it that way? If not, I'm stunned.

Don't mistake my keen-ness for Newton's inclusion for desperation, I have genuinely seen good signs this year.

Surprising as it may seem to you Finks, I am willing to make a fool out of myself backing this kid up for the time-being. I'm as sure as anything that the odds are good he won't make a fool out of me. As good as they are with any debutant.

I think you mistake our desire to blood one or two guys for "giving up" on 2007. It's quite the opposite actually.

Exactly!

And Finks, if Newton is still mentally fragile after 3 years in the system, don't you think it's time we make him grow a set?

Do we want another Smith on our list (different circumstances, but same waste of time)?

I'm all for nursing the kids through, especially if overworking them will damage their bodies, but he's been in the system for 3 years and the other two bottom-aged players drafted in the same year have come along just fine.

At some stage, we need to bite the bullet, and given that our 2 best forwards are out injuries, you'd think this would be the time.

If Petterd, who's been at the club for 5 minutes is ready ahead of Newton, that's a bad reflection on Juice, and not a necessarily justified one.

BTW, if another midfielder goes down, I'm hoping Buckley will be the first inclusion.

With regards to Newton, I'd just like to see a bit of a risk taken.

He might kick a couple of goals, take some good grabs and provide a bit of a spark and excitement for the fans.

Or, he might have a day to forget and find himself back at Sandy. Except this time he has a better understanding of the level that he needs to reach if he wants to make it in the AFL.

I think some of you guys are living in lala land.

Best way to damage already damaged goods in Juice, is by playing him in a tight, aggressive and mentally tough Cat backline.

Maybe youre right...and I can see youve psyched yourself out of the game before a ball has been kicked too.

Personally, I just want the win. Neitz is out for 4, Robertson could be out for 10. If Newton is as good as everyone makes him out to be, he'll get his chance.

Dappa buddy, I hear what you're saying and i'm encouraged by your assessment. I give you my word, i'll put on less prejudice goggles from now on.

....also, I can't PM from work at the moment, tech issue, but I will when I get home, and I'll send you a private word...

Okey Dokey. Hopefully I'll see it before I head out this evening.

Newton at least has a leap and can take a mark. For mine he should have come in. He may be capable of the clanger as well as the hanger but why not bring him in. Surely he is not that mentally feeble that a poor showing in one game will blight him for life. You never know he might actually take a few marks and kick a few goals.

I watched the Sandy game last week, Holland was mediocre and Johnson was not very impressive in the ruck, in fact Neaves looked far more impressive. Johnson is athletic and has good skills and some welcome aggression but really needs to improve his ruckwork and marking.

Whats Wheatley doing in the team? Lacks pace and is not that strong in the air. He is one of the players caught out by the increasing speed of the game.

Sylvia is obviously sore.

Remember when we were told by Neale that we were waiting to get games into players, then we'd be Premiership ready at 11 PM

The games are into the players and we are still a bunch of mentally weak yo yos.

there is no order to who has said any of this first...but we now have enough threads ( in a fashion ) to thatch together a reasonable image of what is wrong .

For a man called the "rev" ....who espouses belief in his men, especially to pull themselves back from obscurity or from spinning endless into the abyss, he seems extremely reluctant to give real credence to the belief his club has in its youth, its draft picks etc...As pointed out here...Micky Mouse at wobbly land is onto the remedy, the same one Sheeds has known for ..well , it seems forever. Play the people whom youve shown enough interet in to draft etc. What do you do otherwise,keep them under lock and key forever til they grow tired of waiting ?

These guys want to play. They have shown they can at a 'cetain' level. what do we lose by playing some?...oh gosh..w e migh lose. Neale, the word is we probably might anyway so playing them now is almost at no cost, or would you rather wait til everything is actually on the line ?

As CB points... as a club we are way too conservative at the most inappropriate times.

Now is not the time to retreat back into mediocrity but an occasion to treat adversity as opportunity. I too would love to see Juice in...also what has Dunn done ( sorry ) to deserve his incarceration at Coventry ? Hopefully Petterd might get a few minutes.

Dappa ..youre not the broken record.. its our club :-( round and round we go, same ol' hurtful cries of "nearly there's" all accompanied to the jouous strains of " we played some dumb football".........."we played some dumb football '..." we played some dumb................ "

Its now ten years of this brand of religion; the skies have opened all but too infrequently, with forecasts of sunshine but only delivery of rain.

Apologies , i dont recall who said it here , but they were dead right, Danners seems incapable of originality only the poor copying of others ideas. And all i see coming is repeat failure. Something has to change.

(belzebub59)

As CB points... as a club we are way too conservative at the most inappropriate times.

Now is not the time to retreat back into mediocrity but an occasion to treat adversity as opportunity.

I can't help but wonder if this conservative-ism is starting with the MCC gentlemen on our board. Maybe they have way too much say & what we need is some good old fashioned blue collar grit & ruggedness, some uncut diamonds, not some highly polished diamantes...

With regards to Newton, I'd just like to see a bit of a risk taken.

He might kick a couple of goals, take some good grabs and provide a bit of a spark and excitement for the fans.

Or, he might have a day to forget and find himself back at Sandy. Except this time he has a better understanding of the level that he needs to reach if he wants to make it in the AFL.

My point exactly.

I note that Finks said earlier Newton should not be crucified against a mentally tough defence like the Cats have, well which AFL team doesn't have a mentally tough defence. If that is the criteria we should never ever play any youngsters.

Just for what it is worth, who is a better mark, kick and has more speed and agility, Newton or Holland.

throw em in and if the sink throw em out!

Just for what it is worth, who is a better mark, kick and has more speed and agility, Newton or Holland.

...Newton...yet oddly, I still have more trust for Holland.