On 11/02/2021 at 20:56, Doug Reemer said:

In his prime. 2012-2016 Jones would of walked in and started in any midfield in the AFL.

Not many would disagree with that comment, however he wouldn't have been many most clubs best best midfielder

  On 11/02/2021 at 23:36, drdrake said:

Not many would disagree with that comment, however he wouldn't have been many most clubs best best midfielder

Never said he would of been.

  On 11/02/2021 at 02:24, drdrake said:

This is how I sum up Oliver, no issues getting the ball but at some stage he needs to start hurting teams.  Petracca is our most valuable and important midfielder.

I think the Midfield group of White, Yze, Leoncille, Rigoni, Johnstone, Woewoden, MacDonald (A & J), Powell, and Bruce are a mile ahead of any midfield group we have had in the last 21 years.  Pretty hard to argue considering this group took us to our last GF appearance and 5 years of finals.  

Our current mids have achieved little, underperformed and more concerned about individual performance then team.

It's a tricky argument. One group is half way through and one is finished but I would argue that the current group doesn't lean on the fantastic forward line those guys had at their disposal.

If you were asked to pick players (two captains schoolyard style) from both groups, I reckon it'd be heavily weighted towards today's players.

Gawn > White 

Trac > any

Oliver =/> any 

Then you've got Viney who I'd pick before most of that group. Langdon and Brayshaw before at least 3 of that group.

Edited February 12, 20214 yr by Cheesy D. Pun

  On 12/02/2021 at 02:22, Cheesy D. Pun said:

It's a tricky argument. One group is half way through and one is finished but I would argue that the current group doesn't lean on the fantastic forward line those guys had at their disposal.

If you were asked to pick players (two captains schoolyard style) from both groups, I reckon it'd be heavily weighted towards today's players.

Gawn > White 

Trac > any

Oliver =/> any 

Then you've got Viney who I'd pick before most of that group. Langdon and Brayshaw before at least 3 of that group.

I disagree with your first comment, the first group at the same age bracket took the club into a Grand Final they all would have been early 20's.  The biggest difference between the 2 groups to midfield of 2000-2006 they all could kick and carry the football, also kick goals.  It certainly helps having a Neitz and Ox to kick to, but I reckon Neita would have appreciated the delivery he got.

The other difference the first group had the benefit of playing some games in the late 90s with some fantastic players/leaders, current group haven't had this.

  On 12/02/2021 at 03:40, drdrake said:

I disagree with your first comment, the first group at the same age bracket took the club into a Grand Final they all would have been early 20's.  The biggest difference between the 2 groups to midfield of 2000-2006 they all could kick and carry the football, also kick goals.  It certainly helps having a Neitz and Ox to kick to, but I reckon Neita would have appreciated the delivery he got.

The other difference the first group had the benefit of playing some games in the late 90s with some fantastic players/leaders, current group haven't had this.

You've presented a fair case and I don't disagree with the facts you've put forward but if you had the chance, would you swap those midfields?

I would contend that's there's no way that 2000 team makes a grand final with Weideman and McDonald et al. and not Neitz, Schwarz, Robertson, Farmer etc.

The current midfield has some issues but it could be argued that it carried both ends of the field to a prelim.

  On 12/02/2021 at 04:35, Cheesy D. Pun said:

The current midfield has some issues but it could be argued that it carried both ends of the field to a prelim.

this

it is also, of course, the midfield that frequently turns up it's toes and rolls over

i'm hoping it's an experience thing but...i have my doubts

  On 11/02/2021 at 00:54, Deemania since 56 said:

Interesting and valid array, RJ. I'd add Greg Wells and Hassa Mann to this list of Demon midfielders - both displayed exceptional skills over long intervals for the mighty Dees. Denis Clarke was another-ee who showed great talent.

From all reports Percy Beames and Stuart Spencer were't  half bad BUT the exercise IS THIS CENTURY., D 56!!!!

There's  always some one that plays outside the rules.

Please go back to our Team of the 20th Century and create another topic !!

PS If you do !!!! 

I saw all of Wells's games and almost all  of Hassa's at the MCG.

Wells is the Jonesey  of the 70,s great in a poor team and Hassa was a junior in a great team till 65 then was our best player for another 5 years.
 

Alves was one of our best wingers of course only just behind by the legend that is Brian Dixon!

I believe that from 1998 - 2004 we had a very solid Midfield, Centre line core of strong, tough and silky skilled players that played for each other and their coach, I can't single one out but as a group they were very very good. Where as with our current group I believe that we are now more skilled more talented and just as tough but they have not fully jelled yet, when they do they look awesome like against  the Pies for example.

Clayton Oliver in my mind has had the best first 80 games that I can remember in a mid fielder and now Christian Petracca has shown just how good he can be, they are now both elite and they are strongly supported by Viney, Harmes, Langdon and Brayshaw, with cameo's coming from Vanders, ANB, Baker, Hunt, Sparrow, Jordon and Rosman, if you throw in Rivers, LJ and Picket through the middle the group will be quite awesome.

But in answer to the original question my choice is Clayton Oliver. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

  On 11/02/2021 at 02:24, drdrake said:

I think the Midfield group of White, Yze, Leoncille, Rigoni, Johnstone, Woewoden, MacDonald (A & J), Powell, and Bruce are a mile ahead of any midfield group we have had in the last 21 years.  Pretty hard to argue considering this group took us to our last GF appearance and 5 years of finals.  

Our current mids have achieved little, underperformed and more concerned about individual performance then team.

I think this post sums up well DrD.  Looking at the stats for this group, and their big game performances players like Guy Rigoni should be in this discussion. Good user of the ball, tough and a goal kicker. he led from the front in all of the 2000 finals. I'd have him ahead of all our midfielders today (bar Trac that is)

  On 11/02/2021 at 02:24, drdrake said:

 

I think the Midfield group of White, Yze, Leoncille, Rigoni, Johnstone, Woewoden, MacDonald (A & J), Powell, and Bruce are a mile ahead of any midfield group we have had in the last 21 years.  

The strength of that midfield was its incredible depth and running power.  It was very even in ability but we didnt have any champions.

Shame we didnt have a Voss, Hird or Ricciuto.  Might have won a flag.

  On 14/02/2021 at 04:27, Demon17 said:

I think this post sums up well DrD.  Looking at the stats for this group, and their big game performances players like Guy Rigoni should be in this discussion. Good user of the ball, tough and a goal kicker. he led from the front in all of the 2000 finals. I'd have him ahead of all our midfielders today (bar Trac that is)

Really the memory does tricks !!

You are virtually saying that Rigoni is our Second best midfielder Of this century !!

Really ??? A three match finals block plus solid form during the season for one year!!!! Better player they year than Woe??

  On 14/02/2021 at 05:57, 58er said:

Really the memory does tricks !!

You are virtually saying that Rigoni is our Second best midfielder Of this century !!

Really ??? A three match finals block plus solid form during the season for one year!!!! Better player they year than Woe??

I didn't say that, even virtually.

My comment re: todays team was that I would pick him 2nd down for midfield after Trac if he was on the list today (obviously hypothetical). No reference at all to century standing. That's another question. A mature age recruit that grabbed his opportunity with both hands, lost to injury.

Certainly a more even and effective finals player head to head with Woey from 98 onwards until injury.

But I'd have Woey any day as well in the current team playing with Trac ahead of others as I'm sure you would.

At least we have an outright A grader from that era now on the coaching panel, which is something I guess. Yze.

  On 12/02/2021 at 13:36, whatwhatsaywhat said:

this

it is also, of course, the midfield that frequently turns up it's toes and rolls over

i'm hoping it's an experience thing but...i have my doubts

I don't disagree with this point but I would add that the midfield being beaten on occasion shouldn't necessarily mean we lose.

Brisbane Lions circa 01 had an immense midfield but if they got beaten, then the backs would rescue them or the forwards would take the game by the scruff of the neck on limited chances.

I'm bullish about the Dees because of this. In Goodwin's time, it could be argued, that no team has put a worse forward line on the park - there are competitors for that title but we're in the conversation.

If we can pull together a balanced forward half, I think you'll stop hearing the nit-picking about each midfielder's deficiencies because they won't matter. We'll simply win games.

  On 14/02/2021 at 09:25, Demon17 said:

I didn't say that, even virtually.

My comment re: todays team was that I would pick him 2nd down for midfield after Trac if he was on the list today (obviously hypothetical). No reference at all to century standing. That's another question. A mature age recruit that grabbed his opportunity with both hands, lost to injury.

Certainly a more even and effective finals player head to head with Woey from 98 onwards until injury.

But I'd have Woey any day as well in the current team playing with Trac ahead of others as I'm sure you would.

At least we have an outright A grader from that era now on the coaching panel, which is something I guess. Yze.

DS the topic is Our best midfielder of the 21st century. Most posts have sat on the fence but Jones on balance is 1 with Oliver 2 and Petracca 3.

Within 2 Years ( and hopefully Clarry and Trac   And Angus  have winning finals and a flag on their CV ) that would change it to 1 Trac probably and 2. Clarry then Jonesy 3. 

  On 14/02/2021 at 12:23, 58er said:

DS the topic is Our best midfielder of the 21st century. Most posts have sat on the fence but Jones on balance is 1 with Oliver 2 and Petracca 3.

Within 2 Years ( and hopefully Clarry and Trac   And Angus  have winning finals and a flag on their CV ) that would change it to 1 Trac probably and 2. Clarry then Jonesy 3. 

Fair comment 58.  But gee if Nathan Jones, great warrior though he has been, in terms of 'Best' midfielder the the group of 2000'ish era has him well covered. If he gets the nod , what an indictment of the first 20 years.

I often wonder whether its just an understandable sympathy vote. Maybe Iv'e just watched him try the long kick across ground and miss too many times.

  On 14/02/2021 at 12:23, 58er said:

DS the topic is Our best midfielder of the 21st century. Most posts have sat on the fence but Jones on balance is 1 with Oliver 2 and Petracca 3.

Within 2 Years ( and hopefully Clarry and Trac   And Angus  have winning finals and a flag on their CV ) that would change it to 1 Trac probably and 2. Clarry then Jonesy 3. 

I really wish I could share your optimism about our current midfield, I'm just really concerned by the lack of skill by foot and the inability to play as a unit rather than individuals.  

Trav Johnstone in full flight was amazing, we just didn't see it enough.  2002 he was flying won a Bluey in 2005.  He to me was our most talented midfielder in the past 21 years.

Ranking our best midfielder is bloody hard as we haven't had an elite midfielder for a very long time.  We have/had some good mid's but not a complete mid that can change a game consistantly.

 

  On 15/02/2021 at 01:34, drdrake said:

I really wish I could share your optimism about our current midfield, I'm just really concerned by the lack of skill by foot and the inability to play as a unit rather than individuals.  

Trav Johnstone in full flight was amazing, we just didn't see it enough.  2002 he was flying won a Bluey in 2005.  He to me was our most talented midfielder in the past 21 years.

Ranking our best midfielder is bloody hard as we haven't had an elite midfielder for a very long time.  We have/had some good mid's but not a complete mid that can change a game consistantly.

 

Trac is changing that very quickly.

He is  something Very special and hardly has a weakness at all. His set close  goalkicking Maybe but it's improved and from 50m out he is top draw.

Plus he is a team man and will unite this midfield with Ooze to Make it in the top 5 in the AFL.

All our mids can improve and also the youngsters can have an effect as well with pressure on and off the field.

  On 14/02/2021 at 23:10, Demon17 said:

Fair comment 58.  But gee if Nathan Jones, great warrior though he has been, in terms of 'Best' midfielder the the group of 2000'ish era has him well covered. If he gets the nod , what an indictment of the first 20 years.

I often wonder whether its just an understandable sympathy vote. Maybe Iv'e just watched him try the long kick across ground and miss too many times.

By 2025 our mids now will be fully able to be judged on their deeds and form from now on (Jonesy has advantage and only wins through a decade or more of consistently good footy mostly in a poor side). Give Trac Clarry Jack and Gus need to pull out the big ones and achieve greatness for the Club including that 13th flag  and more if possible.

We will know damn well who  our best mid this century is  by 2025 as all would have had a decade service!

Now we can only look at the past and sort of hope and predict the future!