Mental Health & the AFL

[Demonland 73,266]

I suspect the numbers have always been high and the stigma of mental illness is just starting to be peeled away. 

 

[Supermercado 2,802]

Would think a few fringe players would be struggling with the knowledge that lists are going to be cut and they'll almost certainly be out of a job.

[Engorged Onion 10,224]

45 minutes ago, Supermercado said:

Would think a few fringe players would be struggling with the knowledge that lists are going to be cut and they'll almost certainly be out of a job.

All the players 'struggle' - I know of one club in the last few years that had around 50% of their players attending one psych external from the club... ranging from premiership players struggling with weekly scrutiny from public and perceived judgements from teammates, as well as those who felt there were favourites from coaches/selection committee and not getting games... and then more general anxiety. The more the services are used (and advocated for) the better. It's a generational shift...and Thank Fork for that.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Engorged Onion

[Supermercado 2,802]

23 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

All the players 'struggle' - I know of one club in the last few years that had around 50% of their players attending one psych external from the club... ranging from premiership players struggling with weekly scrutiny from public and perceived judgements from teammates, as well as those who felt there were favourites from coaches/selection committee and not getting games... and then more general anxiety. The more the services are used (and advocated for) the better. It's a generational shift...and Thank Fork for that.

I'll never forget the all time classic Neeld moment at one of those supporter 'information sessions' (e.g. crisis meetings) they had when we were getting massacred every week in early 2012. When it came to the Q&A I asked what the club was doing for the mental health of players who had been through so many terrible beatings, coach changes etc.. etc.. over recent years and he responded with (paraphrasing) "we don't need a psychologist, if players are upset they can talk to an assistant coach."

I have regretted not arguing that bonkers point ever since.

[Engorged Onion 10,224]

2 minutes ago, Supermercado said:

I'll never forget the all time classic Neeld moment at one of those supporter 'information sessions' (e.g. crisis meetings) they had when we were getting massacred every week in early 2012. When it came to the Q&A I asked what the club was doing for the mental health of players who had been through so many terrible beatings, coach changes etc.. etc.. over recent years and he responded with (paraphrasing) "we don't need a psychologist, if players are upset they can talk to an assistant coach."

I have regretted not arguing that bonkers point ever since.

That response would be hilarious if it wasn't so misguided. Wow! Some old school coaches, do not like outsiders with breadth of skill set taking over 'their' space. 

Anyway... an evolved generational shift is occurring, and that can only lead to good outcomes.

 

[Nelo 813]

Give me a spell. 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

1 hour ago, Supermercado said:

I'll never forget the all time classic Neeld moment at one of those supporter 'information sessions' (e.g. crisis meetings) they had when we were getting massacred every week in early 2012. When it came to the Q&A I asked what the club was doing for the mental health of players who had been through so many terrible beatings, coach changes etc.. etc.. over recent years and he responded with (paraphrasing) "we don't need a psychologist, if players are upset they can talk to an assistant coach."

I have regretted not arguing that bonkers point ever since.

 

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

That response would be hilarious if it wasn't so misguided. Wow! Some old school coaches, do not like outsiders with breadth of skill set taking over 'their' space. 

Anyway... an evolved generational shift is occurring, and that can only lead to good outcomes.

 

And your point is.?

Surely the first point of call within the club is to a staff member,  if things aren't going well, or unravelling.

Other than that,  the more private option outside the club is to talk to friends/family-members/family-doctor... to get things tracking.  In which case the Dr will get things rolling if needed,  with a referral to a specialist.

 

It's not the head coaches area.  More the club doctors area.  Or even the team manager.

Hatred can only take you one way,  deeper into the negative mire.

[Engorged Onion 10,224]

1 hour ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

 

And your point is.?

Surely the first point of call within the club is to a staff member,  if things aren't going well, or unravelling.

Other than that,  the more private option outside the club is to talk to friends/family-members/family-doctor... to get things tracking.  In which case the Dr will get things rolling if needed,  with a referral to a specialist.

 

It's not the head coaches area.  More the club doctors area.  Or even the team manager.

Hatred can only take you one way,  deeper into the negative mire.

What point are you trying to articulate @MyFavouriteMartian? Perhaps you misinterpreted my post?

My point is, it's a great thing that the players are accessing the mental health services provided to them, even in very very recent years, there haven't been the culture's within some clubs (as it's always lead from the top (coaches, captains etc)) that would advocate for using such services.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Engorged Onion

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

1 minute ago, Engorged Onion said:

What point are you trying to articulate @MyFavouriteMartian? 

R U serious.?

[hemingway 7,633]

There is a lot of help available these days, however, for the sufferer the biggest challenge is to find the right person.  That person may be a coach, mentor, GP, friend,  psychiatrist, psychologist etc. Anyone with the right skill set, personal and/or professional. 

That person needs to have personal attributes that include listening skills, empathy, life experience, care, patience and a genuine desire to help the sufferer that is not influenced by ego or money. The sufferer needs to feel that they gave a trusted person in their corner that will maintain privacy and discretion. It may be a combination of these people. Serious mental health problems may require medication and techniques used by a psychiatrist or psychologist assisted by an experienced GP or mentor. 

I would always be cautious about seeking help from someone within a club or organisation. In my experience, these people may not be the best available or best suit the sufferer. Often there is a conflict of interest. 

There are a lot of helpers out there, professional or otherwise The challenge is finding the right one. 

[Engorged Onion 10,224]

52 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

R U serious.?

R U OK?

[Demonstone 23,125]

Seems like we have a couple of posters who subscribe to the Mark Neeld model of empathy.

I'm guessing neither they nor anybody close to them have had issues with their mental health.

[Supermercado 2,802]

10 hours ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

 

And your point is.?

Surely the first point of call within the club is to a staff member,  if things aren't going well, or unravelling.

Other than that,  the more private option outside the club is to talk to friends/family-members/family-doctor... to get things tracking.  In which case the Dr will get things rolling if needed,  with a referral to a specialist.

 

It's not the head coaches area.  More the club doctors area.  Or even the team manager.

Hatred can only take you one way,  deeper into the negative mire.

Bizarre to say it's not the head coach's area - obviously not his job to hire somebody personally but surely you would have an interest in proper support structures for the people whose business it is to keep you in a job. Especially considering the behind the scenes tension before he took over.

The point was whether we had a club psychologist, counselling service, or independent person mentally stressed players (especially those who had been through two spoons, 186, up to three senior coaches, the death of the president and 10 weeks of being dragged through the media at every thumping) could speak to - not some ex-player with zero training in counselling that they probably think will run a line through them for admitting weakness. 

Alternatively, a proactive program where you work with players before it gets to that point. Didn't have that either.  

[Wrecker45 3,378]

2 hours ago, Supermercado said:

Bizarre to say it's not the head coach's area - obviously not his job to hire somebody personally but surely you would have an interest in proper support structures for the people whose business it is to keep you in a job. Especially considering the behind the scenes tension before he took over.

The point was whether we had a club psychologist, counselling service, or independent person mentally stressed players (especially those who had been through two spoons, 186, up to three senior coaches, the death of the president and 10 weeks of being dragged through the media at every thumping) could speak to - not some ex-player with zero training in counselling that they probably think will run a line through them for admitting weakness. 

Alternatively, a proactive program where you work with players before it gets to that point. Didn't have that either.  

I agree with almost all you are saying but interested in your opinion.

I work for a company with over 800 employees in Australia. There is no psychologist on staff.

i played footy from Vic Kick (now Aus kick) through to the amateurs which was about 15 years of playing. It is good excersise and you build great lifelong friendships.

I’m not belittling mental health or metal health issues.

But why do AFL footy clubs need psychologists? 

Most organisations don’t have them or require them.

 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

3 hours ago, Supermercado said:

Bizarre to say it's not the head coach's area - obviously not his job to hire somebody personally but surely you would have an interest in proper support structures for the people whose business it is to keep you in a job. Especially considering the behind the scenes tension before he took over.

The point was whether we had a club psychologist, counselling service, or independent person mentally stressed players (especially those who had been through two spoons, 186, up to three senior coaches, the death of the president and 10 weeks of being dragged through the media at every thumping) could speak to - not some ex-player with zero training in counselling that they probably think will run a line through them for admitting weakness. 

Alternatively, a proactive program where you work with players before it gets to that point. Didn't have that either.  

Of course an interest, but Neeld wasn't to be there for the long haul. was he.?

He was there to sort out the list and culture quickly, and he had the two desks, the empathy desk,  and the direct hard and fast desk.  this would give him some feedback on characters.

He was there to sort things out, not to smooth things over.  And to do what was necessary.  He did this.    You cannot patch-up a weak and rotten culture with band-aids and love.

It has to be like surgery first.   Cut out the rotten stuff,  and then hit it hard with chemo',  and then irradiate it.

 

He cut away,  he chemo'd,  and then irradiated,  to remove the biigest parts of the list,  ready to be rebuilt....   and then along came Roos.  Tto rebuild and reboot the club and list.

 

He did that job...   Roos would not have done that job,  of cutting so much,  that Neeld did...   Roosy wouldn't have taken the job on,  IMO,  If the list was left as it was,  Pre Neeld.   The dirty work was mostly done,  before Roos agreed to take it on.

[Kent 2,916]

18 hours ago, hemingway said:

There is a lot of help available these days, however, for the sufferer the biggest challenge is to find the right person.  That person may be a coach, mentor, GP, friend,  psychiatrist, psychologist etc. Anyone with the right skill set, personal and/or professional. 

That person needs to have personal attributes that include listening skills, empathy, life experience, care, patience and a genuine desire to help the sufferer that is not influenced by ego or money. The sufferer needs to feel that they gave a trusted person in their corner that will maintain privacy and discretion. It may be a combination of these people. Serious mental health problems may require medication and techniques used by a psychiatrist or psychologist assisted by an experienced GP or mentor. 

I would always be cautious about seeking help from someone within a club or organisation. In my experience, these people may not be the best available or best suit the sufferer. Often there is a conflict of interest. 

There are a lot of helpers out there, professional or otherwise The challenge is finding the right one. 

Well articulated Ernie

Its no so simple to get the right assistance when you need it. Getting the right person to interact with is the key. Its not a numbers game just making a service available is not always enough.

[Supermercado 2,802]

9 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

I agree with almost all you are saying but interested in your opinion.

I work for a company with over 800 employees in Australia. There is no psychologist on staff.

i played footy from Vic Kick (now Aus kick) through to the amateurs which was about 15 years of playing. It is good excersise and you build great lifelong friendships.

I’m not belittling mental health or metal health issues.

But why do AFL footy clubs need psychologists? 

Most organisations don’t have them or require them.

 

Is there at least an employee assistance program where you can speak to somebody outside the business? If a club had that I'd agree they might not need a specialist psychologist on the payroll but the players have to have an option to take their problems to somebody independent and not an assistant coach (when they still existed).

I understand what you're saying, but footy clubs are not normal businesses, the demands on the people involved are much higher, there's a massive element of public intrusion and the window to make your money is much smaller. It's not like a job where you could come in at 18 and stay there until you were 65 if you wanted, these guys are on a super-limited timeline and the club should provide adequate support for them while they're on the list.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

On 4/23/2020 at 12:51 PM, hemingway said:

I would always be cautious about seeking help from someone within a club or organisation. In my experience, these people may not be the best available or best suit the sufferer. Often there is a conflict of interest. 

A sufferer might feel terribly uncomfortable talking to anyone about the issues. 

The sufferer might be unaware of the issues themselves...  But just aware they are struggling for some reason.

Sometimes,  even the right kind of doctor is too much a step for some.  This is why little steps talking to a trusted friend,  if there is one,  can be the start of finding good help.

The sufferer has to first get to the point of acknowledging to themselves,  that they would like some help.

 

So talking to someone trusted inside the club;   away from the Head Coach, who obviously would be conflicted to a degree,  would likely be the correct way. To  get things started.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

On 4/23/2020 at 1:24 PM, demonstone said:

Seems like we have a couple of posters who subscribe to the Mark Neeld model of empathy.

I'm guessing neither they nor anybody close to them have had issues with their mental health.

The model of empathy goes 360*_   3 dimensional,  'ds'.

 

That model also encompasses Mark Neeld's plight,  after being 'thrown to the wolves',  as a first time senior AFL coach,  with little in the way of support himself.   His loved ones hurt, as well as his.

 

It seems to me that most on here are only thinking of,  and reacting/responding from a point of hate /anger,  so its more about the posters negativeness,  mostly.