On 21/04/2020 at 03:14, Collar-Jazz-Knee said:

In my mind our list is as follows:

Currently Elite

Gawn - 3 time all Australian and in the top 2 ruck man in the competition

Oliver - already an All Australian at 22 and will only get better. Needs to work on a few things to become a consistent top 5 mid but he will get there.

 

Oliver is not elite yet,  he should become so,  but is terribly wasteful with his possessions.  And turnovers via poor use, at times.  But he's young and still learning and developing.

Similarly with Brayshaw.

The two of them need to pull the digit back out, and fire up & improve.

Edited April 21, 20205 yr by MyFavouriteMartian

  On 21/04/2020 at 13:57, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Oliver is not elite yet,  he should become so,  but is terribly wasteful with his possessions.  And turnovers via poor use, at times.  But he's young and still learning and developing.

Similarly with Brayshaw.

The two of them need to pull the digit back out, and fire up & improve.

I disagree. At the end of the day if your view of elite means only the top 10 rated players, then using champion data this is the list:

1. Gawn

2. Grundy

3. Neale

4. Fyfe

5. Dangerfield

6. Martin

7. Cripps

8. Goldstein

9, Bontempelli

10. Macrae

Oliver actually sits in 13th at the moment and I believe in 2018 got as high as the third or fourth ranked player.

He is an elite talent without a doubt, even if 2019 wasn't as good for him as 2018.

  On 21/04/2020 at 02:48, Accepting Mediocrity said:

Not sure about this. Dangerfield isn't a great kick, but he's arguably the best midfielder of the last decade.

Dusty doesn't tackle.

Buddy isn't strong overhead, and isn't a great set shot.

Great players can still have fundamental weaknesses. They have a couple of things that they do better than everyone else, and consistently deliver in big moments.

 

 

Dangerfield would be one of the best kicks at our club if he player for Melbourne, he kicks the ball great.

Don't need to tackle when you have the ball in your hand so much and damages you with his foot skills

Buddy is going kick 1000 goals before he retires must be a half decent set shot.

These three players can turn a game in a short burst, we don't have players that can do that.  Petracca may be able to do this but doesn't at yet.

 

  On 21/04/2020 at 23:00, Collar-Jazz-Knee said:

I disagree. At the end of the day if your view of elite means only the top 10 rated players, then using champion data this is the list:

1. Gawn

2. Grundy

3. Neale

4. Fyfe

5. Dangerfield

6. Martin

7. Cripps

8. Goldstein

9, Bontempelli

10. Macrae

Oliver actually sits in 13th at the moment and I believe in 2018 got as high as the third or fourth ranked player.

He is an elite talent without a doubt, even if 2019 wasn't as good for him as 2018.

I think Oliver has a lot of work to do,  to get anywhere near his potential.

H is very rough with using the ball,  he needs to polish up most of his work.  The only thing elite about him atmo,  is his intensity/disposal numbers.

To say he's elite already,  is doing him a dis-service..   Cheap flattery does nothing to help people work to their utmost.

Brayshaw is on a big warning this year

Needs to show something, otherwise I would be happy to trade him 

  On 22/04/2020 at 02:18, MyFavouriteMartian said:

I think Oliver has a lot of work to do,  to get anywhere near his potential.

H is very rough with using the ball,  he needs to polish up most of his work.  The only thing elite about him atmo,  is his intensity/disposal numbers.

To say he's elite already,  is doing him a dis-service..   Cheap flattery does nothing to help people work to their utmost.

Tough words but a grain of truth. He's a potential wonder player but he needs to take that step. Also needs to learn how to play through a tag.

 

  On 22/04/2020 at 03:51, Diamond_Jim said:

Tough words but a grain of truth. He's a potential wonder player but he needs to take that step. Also needs to learn how to play through a tag.

 

and kick more/kick more goals

  On 22/04/2020 at 03:47, MF-C said:

Brayshaw is on a big warning this year

Needs to show something, otherwise I would be happy to trade him 

For what? Or who?? 

  On 22/04/2020 at 03:53, MF-C said:

and kick more/kick more goals

I agree was going to put that in but it is so obvious.

To the experts....how would you rate his kicking skills??

  On 22/04/2020 at 03:54, spirit of norm smith said:

For what? Or who?? 

picks or someone who is more damaging 

  On 22/04/2020 at 03:55, Diamond_Jim said:

I agree was going to put that in but it is so obvious.

To the experts....how would you rate his kicking skills??

solid - he has good penetration but just doesn't do it enough 

  On 22/04/2020 at 03:51, Diamond_Jim said:

Tough words but a grain of truth. He's a potential wonder player but he needs to take that step. Also needs to learn how to play through a tag.

 

My concern is,  when we start to place players ahead of their true level,  prior to them achieving this,  we shoot our own feet, each time.  How many times and players do we, (this club) need to stifle the development of,  Via our own desperation to have a Hero.?

 

Robert Flower entered the club and fought names/innuendo's as a youngster,  like '4 eyes, and 'skin and bones', comments.... he was dee-termined to prove he could,  and he developed himself totally,  even relearning things when Barassi arrived,  making Flower a more rounded player.

 

We often turn many players into our own lap dogs, thru too much lavishing.

  On 22/04/2020 at 03:51, Diamond_Jim said:

Tough words but a grain of truth. He's a potential wonder player but he needs to take that step. Also needs to learn how to play through a tag.

 

And the same was said of Petracca last year.  We got into him, and he seems to have heeded the words of ire.

There's a saying once used,  To to Put Up,  or Shut Up.

Another one is 'The Buck Stops Here'.  with the players.

 

So many Melbourne players have not reached near their potentials,  and much blame rests with the attitudes expressed around the club,  and around the players.

We all complain about the poor development of our players in our past,  and we do effect them;  myself included in this fault.   Where i too suggested to some players, that they were better than what they thought.

It doesn't help them, and mostly hinders their attitudes.

  On 22/04/2020 at 03:47, MF-C said:

Brayshaw is on a big warning this year

Needs to show something, otherwise I would be happy to trade him 

I can't remember which commentator said this but I this it's true, Brayshaw doesn't seem to impact as well when Viney is in there doing his "rough and tough" thing. Against WC he was extremely poor, he just didn't seem to know where to be. I am by no means putting a pen through him because he still ranks as one of my favourite players but I agree that this has to be pressure point year where he gets back to his 2018 form or we look to use him as a way to gain some outside class.

The three that I've mentioned all suffer from the same affliction of poor disposal inside 50, they just need to take that micro pause to look at WHERE to put the ball, even if it is a long ball at least spot positive areas to go to.

  On 20/04/2020 at 08:40, picket fence said:

The question you have to ask is How many of our current players would walk into ANY other side???

???? ok Max in most. C;larry as well!

Rob Flower would walk into ANY TEAM OF ANY ERA

Case closed!

Agree with Robbie but with respect  Not the rest - May,Lever, Langdon,Tomlinson, Melksham, Gawn,Oliver, Brayshaw,Harmes, Viney and others would walk in - half of them have already proved that - we have one of the best lists - all of those list bashers will be eating their words over next few years

  On 22/04/2020 at 09:39, Jack Russell said:

Agree with Robbie but with respect  Not the rest - May,Lever, Langdon,Tomlinson, Melksham, Gawn,Oliver, Brayshaw,Harmes, Viney and others would walk in - half of them have already proved that - we have one of the best lists - all of those list bashers will be eating their words over next few years

What have they proved thus far?

  On 22/04/2020 at 10:44, Sir Why You Little said:

What have they proved thus far?

Some more than others but still not conclusive eneough.

Langdon and Tommlinson?? Spare me!!

  On 22/04/2020 at 10:44, Sir Why You Little said:

What have they proved thus far?

SWYL wow. Just saw you list Norm Smith as one of your favourite players. I assume that's because you saw him and given his last game for us was in the 1948 Premiership that must make you one of the oldest on here. 

I would love to have done that. In the Red Fox there were a lot of quotes from him on leading patterns in the forward line and sacrificing himself as a decoy FF so others could be uncontested targets. A few lessons there for some of our "elite" players nowadays. A lot has changed in our great game but a lot of fundamentals have stayed the same. 

Edited April 23, 20205 yr by It's Time

  On 23/04/2020 at 03:11, It's Time said:

SWYL wow. Just saw you list Norm Smith as one of your favourite players. I assume that's because you saw him and given his last game for us was in the 1948 Premiership that must make you one of the oldest on here. 

I would love to have done that. In the Red Fox there were a lot of quotes from him on leading patterns in the forward line and sacrificing himself as a decoy FF so others could be uncontested targets. A few lessons there for some of our "elite" players nowadays. A lot has changed in our great game but a lot of fundamentals have stayed the same. 

No mate. I am way younger than that. I have just read whatever history i can find over the years. 
 

The MFC was once Feared and begrudgingly Respected...

  On 22/04/2020 at 10:44, Sir Why You Little said:

What have they proved thus far?

Is that all you have geez do you really barrack for MELBOURNE read my last sentence save this and open it in 3 years time 

  On 23/04/2020 at 11:45, Jack Russell said:

Is that all you have geez do you really barrack for MELBOURNE read my last sentence save this and open it in 3 years time 

You only speak of Potential 

Nothing has happened yet

50 years of barracking for MELBOURNE sunshine...