On 9/14/2019 at 3:53 PM, Baghdad Bob said:

Well I'll tell you why he might choose us.

If we are the rabble you think we are why did Burgess and Richardson come to us when they had plenty of alternatives?   Why would Langdon and Tomlinson even consider us (and appear very likely to join) given they appear to have a lot of alternatives?  Why haven't a raft of players requested trades if we are such a rabble?

I think it's because, like me, they don't think we are a rabble and they actually think we have a very bright future. Rather than slashing their wrists and going all hang dog about this season we've just had they may have asked themselves what happened for a club that finish in a PF in 2018 to fall to 17th in 2019.  And strangely it happened without us losing a meaningful player(s).  They probably thought that a good club one year, without any change of personnel on or off the field wouldn't have had the 2019 year they did without good reason.

And here are some reasons (which I've posted elsewhere) they may have considered:

These players were in discussions for our best 22 this season:-

 

B:     Jetta  May  Lever

HB:    Salem  OMac  Hibberd 

?  Harmes Oliver Fritsch

HF:    Petracca   Weid  ANB

F:    Melksham TMac Spargo

R:    Gawn   Brayshaw Viney 

I:    Kolo,  Jones, AVB,  J Smith

Others:  Hannan, Preuss, Lewis, Stretch, Frost, Hore

That's 28 players that I would have expected to form the basis of the team for the season.  You can take off and add some of your own but it won't change the arguments below.

These players had significantly interrupted Preseasons (17):  Jones, Harmes, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney Jetta, May, Lever, Hibberd, Melksham, TMac, Kolo, Hannan, Hore, OMac and  Stretch

These players had Injury ruined seasons after a good PS (3):  Weideman,  AVB, JSmith,

These players had a full PS and good run at the season (8): Salem, Fritsch, ANB, Spargo, Gawn, Preuss, Frost, Lewis

I'm working from memory so you can correct me on some of the details but the facts are compelling.  17 or our best 28 players had significantly interrupted PS's and three others had significantly disrupted seasons.  Of the 8 players who had a good go at it only Salem, Fritsch, Gawn and Frost were definite best 22 for me and some will add Lewis. That's 4 players and not one midfielder.

Now fitness aside, is it any wonder connection from backs to forwards through the midfield was awful.  Why?  Because they didn't practice over the PS.  Is it any wonder our skill level was awful.  Why? Because most of our best 22 didn't do a lot of ball work over the preseason and we had a whole lot of NQR players in the team, many who didn't practice over the preseason.

So Steve I'm guessing that anyone looking at joining our Club recognizes there are very good reasons for why we were awful this year and they expect us to rebound quickly.  I do and Richardson, Burgess and a couple of handy players clearly do.  They wouldn't join us if they thought we were a rabble.

Why wouldn't Elliott think the same?

 

Basically because he's not a Melbourne supporter. 

Looking at our club through the slightly more objective eyes of a player like Elliot, I can't imagine he'd share the same level of buoyancy that you've shown in your detailed post, even if some of your points are valid.

I could jot down just as many reasons why he'd choose not to come to us, even if the money was slightly more.

Off the top of my head?

- Collingwood played in a GF last year and are massive chance to win it this year. We've finished second last, no matter the reasons.

- The success that both clubs have had over the past decade and what that looks like going forward? 

- Collingwood are a big four club and get huge crowd numbers to games weekly, he is extremely tight-knit with many of his team mates. 

- There's no 'go home' factor like there is with Tomlinson or Langdon so the comparison is silly Both of those boys are Victorian and one of them was dropped last week in a final having been on their list for six + years. Security for Tomlinson is another factor. Sure we may be a more favourable club of choice than St Kilda or North Melbourne for Tomlinson or Langdon, but that's a separate argument. We're Talking about Elliot.

I could go on. 

I don't share the same view and I highly doubt Elliot does. Unless of course he likes dollars and we're offering an amount that can't be resisted. 

We've been a rabble for over a decade. Our finish this year had a very 'Melbourne of old' feel to it. It would be completely naive to believe that a player like Elliot wouldn't think about that sort of thing coming from a big and successful club like Collingwood.

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 20195 yr by stevethemanjordan

8 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Unless of course he likes dollars and we're offering an amount that can't be resisted. 

length of contract is what will secure him at the dees

pies' salary cap is bursting at the seams, from all reports, with some pretty big players in grundy (who could easily command $1.3+ a season if adelaide are serious about getting him back) and de goey (who ain't exactly going to be lowballed either) due for negotiation next year

elliott wants a three year deal minimum, and pies have offered two on pretty low contract

if jake niall is reporting that he's interested in a move in order to get greater security, then we're on like donkey kong

Edited September 15, 20195 yr by whatwhatsaywhat

Just now, whatwhatsaywhat said:

length of contract is what will secure him at the dees

pies' salary cap is bursting at the seams, from all reports, with some pretty big players in grundy (who could easily command $1.3+ a season if adelaide are serious about getting him back) and de goey (who ain't exactly going to be lowballed either) due for negotiation next year

elliott wants a three year deal minimum, and pies have offered two on pretty low contract

if jake niall is reporting that he's interesting, then we're on like donkey kong

Yes, well that's clearly a factor if he's after security.

Did Jake actually report that Elliot is interested? 

Or just that we've made an offer?

43 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Yes, well that's clearly a factor if he's after security.

Did Jake actually report that Elliot is interested? 

Or just that we've made an offer?

“There has never been any suggestion that he wants out of the club, but the Melbourne offer, of at least two years, is almost certain to exceed Collingwood's current one given the salary cap constraints at the Pies”. - Niall. 

I haven’t heard or read anything else that indicated Elliott’s intentions or his thoughts on our offer. 

On 9/13/2019 at 8:40 AM, Mel Bourne said:

If you want to get a proper idea of Jamie Elliott’s worth, go over to the Collingwood forums. Their fans are apoplectic at the idea of losing him. 

I also recall Paul Roos being on the record numerous times as rating him highly.

And we desperately need a player with his skill set.

It’s an absolute no brainer.

 

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

Basically because he's not a Melbourne supporter. 

Looking at our club through the slightly more objective eyes of a player like Elliot, I can't imagine he'd share the same level of buoyancy that you've shown in your detailed post, even if some of your points are valid.

I could jot down just as many reasons why he'd choose not to come to us, even if the money was slightly more.

Off the top of my head?

- Collingwood played in a GF last year and are massive chance to win it this year. We've finished second last, no matter the reasons.

- The success that both clubs have had over the past decade and what that looks like going forward? 

- Collingwood are a big four club and get huge crowd numbers to games weekly, he is extremely tight-knit with many of his team mates. 

- There's no 'go home' factor like there is with Tomlinson or Langdon so the comparison is silly Both of those boys are Victorian and one of them was dropped last week in a final having been on their list for six + years. Security for Tomlinson is another factor. Sure we may be a more favourable club of choice than St Kilda or North Melbourne for Tomlinson or Langdon, but that's a separate argument. We're Talking about Elliot.

I could go on. 

I don't share the same view and I highly doubt Elliot does. Unless of course he likes dollars and we're offering an amount that can't be resisted. 

We've been a rabble for over a decade. Our finish this year had a very 'Melbourne of old' feel to it. It would be completely naive to believe that a player like Elliot wouldn't think about that sort of thing coming from a big and successful club like Collingwood.

 

 

 

Steve, I wasn’t arguing he’d come, I was arguing we aren’t a rabble. I agree, there are lots of reasons he wouldn’t come, I’ve said I don’t think he will.

But I’ll say it again - We are not a rabble. 

Hope you’ve got the point this time. 

On 9/14/2019 at 4:09 PM, Baghdad Bob said:

I was responding to "rabble", not Elliot joining.  FTR, I doubt he will.

It’d be super exciting to land him - but I agree, it just seems highly unlikely.

Hope the Pies get pumped in the prelim - might make the decision easier.

 

7 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Steve, I wasn’t arguing he’d come, I was arguing we aren’t a rabble. I agree, there are lots of reasons he wouldn’t come, I’ve said I don’t think he will.

But I’ll say it again - We are not a rabble. 

Hope you’ve got the point this time. 

We aren't a rabble but we're rightly not a destination club either. 

It seems we've targeted Langdon for a while, so I'm inclined to agree with Steve, just not his hyperbole on 'rabble'.

Things could go south drastically next year if we struggle early on. Goodwin could be fired by the bye and our top players will be voicing their concerns, leading to murmurs of trade talk.

Given how poorly we started this year and how we continued it, despite my inclinations to agree with much of your post, from an outsiders POV, Elliot will likely stay at Collingwood and Tomlinson+Langdon will come home to Melbourne (and the MFC) simply because we are a better prospect than North or St Kilda / can offer better money than Richmond or Collingwood, but that really isn't saying much.

Edited September 15, 20195 yr by A F

I imagine it would be hard going from a club with facilities like Collingwood’s to our non-existent facilities and training on an under 10’s oval. 

Ok WHO is the last A + Grade talent we have lured to our club a la Danger, Etc Etc???

..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................!!!!

That"s right.. NONE

I'll call this thread "The Diamond Jim Tilbrook" Thread!

B Graders we have recruited maybe but no "Bona Fides"

Templeton, Past It, Carman Pft, Moore Brownlow v=but not much else and Inj when we could have made an Assault in 87

Elliot Nar Yeah But not superstar!

I rest my case!

MFC HAVE NEVER LURED A + SILK .... NEVER!

Edited September 15, 20195 yr by picket fence

16 minutes ago, A F said:

We aren't a rabble but we're rightly not a destination club either. 

It seems we've targeted Langdon for a while, so I'm inclined to agree with Steve, just not his hyperbole on 'rabble'.

Things could go south drastically next year if we struggle early on. Goodwin could be fired by the bye and our top players will be voicing their concerns, leading to murmurs of trade talk.

Given how poorly we started this year and how we continued it, despite my inclinations to agree with much of your post, from an outsiders POV, Elliot will likely stay at Collingwood and Tomlinson+Langdon will come home to Melbourne (and the MFC) simply because we are a better prospect than North or St Kilda / can offer better money than Richmond or Collingwood, but that really isn't saying much.

I’ve not posted this all year, but my mate has a text from Paul Roos (when asked who’d win the flag this year prior to the commencement of the season proper) which says:

“Richmond v Demons Grand Final - toss of a coin, but I really hope it’s the Dees.”

A lot of people were caught by surprise by how ordinary we’ve been this year. I expect the pre-season and the lack of continuity has had a lot to do with it.

We’ll be back.

 

3 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Ok WHO is the last A + Grade talent we have lured to our club a la Danger, Etc Etc???

..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

That"s right NONE

B Graders maybe but no "Bona Fides"

This Bloke is B standard

I rest my case!

MFC HAVE NEVER LURED A + SILK .... NEVER!

How many ‘A+’ grade players have moved clubs in the last decade (A+ at the time of moving). 

Franklin

Dangerfield

Don’t say Treloar, he wasn’t A+ when he moved 

Edited September 15, 20195 yr by Ethan Tremblay

1 minute ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

How many ‘A+’ grade players have moved clubs in the last decade (A+ at the time of moving). 

Franklin

Dangefield

 

ABLETT!!

1 minute ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

How many ‘A+’ grade players have moved clubs in the last decade (A+ at the time of moving). 

Franklin

Dangefield

 

Name the ones with no " go home" factor. 

2 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I’ve not posted this all year, but my mate has a text from Paul Roos (when asked who’d win the flag this year prior to the commencement of the season proper) which says:

“Richmond v Demons Grand Final - toss of a coin, but I really hope it’s the Dees.”

A lot of people were caught by surprise by how ordinary we’ve been this year. I expect the pre-season and the lack of continuity has had a lot to do with it.

We’ll be back.

 

No we wont 

Not on this years Fiasco!!

Hope is a at best Serious tragedy!

 

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Yes, well that's clearly a factor if he's after security.

Did Jake actually report that Elliot is interested? 

Or just that we've made an offer?

Just that we made an offer.

1 minute ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Name the ones with no " go home" factor. 

Immaterial name those with Serious Serious A+ Grade that WANT to come to DEES 

DAMNING TO SAY THE LEAST!

3 minutes ago, picket fence said:

ABLETT!!

Franklin and Ablett only left their respective clubs to go to clubs that offered massive contracts and used loopholes or AFL assistance to get them there. 

13 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Immaterial name those with Serious Serious A+ Grade that WANT to come to DEES 

DAMNING TO SAY THE LEAST!

Name any A+ grade player that currently wants to leave their current club. 

You’re getting over excited again Picket! 

Edited September 15, 20195 yr by Ethan Tremblay

13 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I’ve not posted this all year, but my mate has a text from Paul Roos (when asked who’d win the flag this year prior to the commencement of the season proper) which says:

“Richmond v Demons Grand Final - toss of a coin, but I really hope it’s the Dees.”

A lot of people were caught by surprise by how ordinary we’ve been this year. I expect the pre-season and the lack of continuity has had a lot to do with it.

We’ll be back.

 

I wonder what Roos thinks now. I reckon he'd be mightily [censored] off. 

Make no mistake. If things don't turn quickly next year, Goodwin will be gone.

10 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Name any A+ grade player that currently want sto leave their current club. 

You’re getting over excited again Picket! 

As per my PASSION! Ethan!!

3 minutes ago, A F said:

I wonder what Roos thinks now. I reckon he'd be mightily [censored] off. 

Make no mistake. If things don't turn quickly next year, Goodwin will be gone.

Yeah, I reckon you’re probably right.

 

53 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Steve, I wasn’t arguing he’d come, I was arguing we aren’t a rabble. I agree, there are lots of reasons he wouldn’t come, I’ve said I don’t think he will.

But I’ll say it again - We are not a rabble. 

Hope you’ve got the point this time. 

You ended your post with: "why wouldn't Elliott think the same?" 

You were arguing against the notion that he wouldn't be interested in coming. 

And within that, also stating to your mind why we are not a rabble. 

Let's just disagree. 

As I've said many many times already. If pre-season and in season injuries were the main factor as to why we finished 17th on the ladder this year, it seems awful strange that Jennings, McCartney, Rawlings and Viney have all departed.

And there still may be more to go yet. 

Apparently it's all coincidence though and I'm a conspiracy theorist for thinking it's 'odd'. 

 

Edited September 15, 20195 yr by stevethemanjordan

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I imagine it would be hard going from a club with facilities like Collingwood’s to our non-existent facilities and training on an under 10’s oval. 

Oval?

also, FYI elliott's junior club was the Euroa MAGPIES.. get it? MAG-PIES. the proof is in the mag-pie.