POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 21

[DV8 2,271]

19 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

You're proposing trading him... That's what I'm challenging. 

My God. You're wanting to get Whitfield in the team over Hogan? This just gets better and better.

And what's this? You're claiming the age profile of our mature players is cause to move Jesse on? Lists get turned over every season. You get to move on a couple of older players EVERY SEASON if you're doing it right. What's that got to do with trading one of the best KP forwards under 25 in the league? I said it before and I'll say it again. You don't trade out good players to play your VFL guys, or to trade in other clubs' offcasts.

You're out of your mind. I've put the Weed/Whitfield> Hogan stuff aside for later. This is just going to get funnier every year.

yes exactly. forwards are Not our problem.  midfield is and we re not as good around the middle as we think we are.

We always fall for that card trick over estimating ourselves in the middle. 

 

Jesse is NOT a deep forward.   Never will be.  Not fast enough on the lead, and its too easy to plug the hole out in front of him. TMc is better than Jesse, as our tall forward.

Weide will be a full-forward,  or forward-pocket if you prefer.   He will 'play tall', as a deep forward.

Maxy has to learn to hold his overhead marks.

[DeeZee 7,445]

Hogan, has to be injured. Can’t jump high for marks and has stopped working up the ground like he did in the early rounds. 

He was an absolute machine and being compared to Nick Riewoldt. 

Definitely looks impaired by something.

[layzie 33,987]

2 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Complete and utter rubbish.

The star forwards of the game have a reliable set-shot routine that they can bank on and they don't need to second guess. Brown, Kennedy, Riewoldt, Hawkins, Franklin - none of them have a lack of faith in their own routine. Sure, they miss some under pressure, almost any player does, and the pressure of a close game or a strong opponent will do that. But Jesse is mucking around with his technique and has been for weeks, whether it's snapping from 20m out or bending out and trying to hook it back. 

The mental side is important too, but with Hogan he needs to practice his routine to get that part of the problem under control.

You can always tell what the result will be by the way he runs in. 

But yeah I agree, there has to be a set routine and a lot of practice to get it right. I don’t see how this can’t be an important part of preparation.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,266]

3 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

After watching WC game I thought we would beat them based on what we do well. After that disgrace, now I wonder if we can, even with their big outs.

Our team doesn't mind the travel, they seem to panic most in front of the home crowd. I also think we match up well with WCE. Anyway I guess we'll see, that was my pregame thoughts but this one was there for the taking and we bloody [censored] the bed in horrendous fashion. Absolutely gutted over his loss today as no doubt everyone here is, it will be a tough one to get over

[charlie_s123 17]

1 hour ago, Webber said:

Yep. There was no adjudication of kick distance today, and the swans exploited it beautifully. Might as well not have the rule. 

They also exploited loose adjudication of where the mark was, lazy running within the protected zone and incorrect disposal. 

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

15 minutes ago, DV8 said:

yes exactly. forwards are Not our problem.  midfield is and we re not as good around the middle as we think we are.

We always fall for that card trick over estimating ourselves in the middle. 

 

Jesse is NOT a deep forward.   Never will be.  Not fast enough on the lead, and its too easy to plug the hole out in front of him. TMc is better than Jesse, as our tall forward.

Weide will be a full-forward,  or forward-pocket if you prefer.   He will 'play tall', as a deep forward.

Maxy has to learn to hold his overhead marks.

Jesse is absolutely a deep forward. Has been playing the role (along with others) all year and kicking bags. He's 6th in the Coleman after playing part of the year wandering up the ground and even at centre clearances. Something you don't see Hawkins, Riewoldt or Brown do. You've got to open your eyes.

Again with the Weed. Been in the system 3 years and still can't get a game. 8 goals in 15 games. Jesse kicked 40+ in his first season. And you want to go with TMac and Weed... You want to take the best attack in the game and go into it with just TMac and a kid who is yet to prove he can do anything.

I guess you could be right. After all we don't know the end result of Weed's career yet. I'm confident Hogan will end up the better player by a mile. I hope we stick with good players instead of trading them out because we're so disgusted with our current crop of mids. If you're that upset about how bad guys like Oliver, Tracca, Viney and Brayshaw are going, you could trade one of them? Or maybe hang in for another year or two and see how they go when they crack 100 games.

See you in 8 years.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Our team doesn't mind the travel, they seem to panic most in front of the home crowd. I also think we match up well with WCE. Anyway I guess we'll see, that was my pregame thoughts but this one was there for the taking and we bloody [censored] the bed in horrendous fashion. Absolutely gutted over his loss today as no doubt everyone here is, it will be a tough one to get over

I've been hanging onto that "we play well away" thing too. It is true that we don't play well at the G. Every time I see us play there, unless it's against appalling oppo like GC or Blues, we just seem lost. It'll be something they deal with in off season, you can be sure. For now though, WC win is our best window.

I have a feeling we'll end up looking at Friday night's game in round 23 like we did the Pies game the same round last year.

[davo 209]

Absolutely crucified by umps and pathetically shyte kicking for goal, few players that should not be in team, that was why we lost

[layzie 33,987]

 

[jnrmac 20,154]

5 hours ago, Webber said:

I heard Nathan Burke on radio pregame tipping the Swans, because, and I quote: “Melbourne will choke. They always do”. It made me angry, because I wanted in my heart to know that he was wrong, but in my head I knew he was likely on the money. 

Nathan Burke? The loser St Kilda guy that once helped us find a new coach by being on our interview panel....M Neeld.

GAGF.

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, DeeZee said:

Hogan, has to be injured. Can’t jump high for marks and has stopped working up the ground like he did in the early rounds. 

He was an absolute machine and being compared to Nick Riewoldt. 

Definitely looks impaired by something.

He is, obviously playing sore,,, but he's moved this way for 3/4trs of the time he's been with Mfc.

We are better off for tall forwards, than we are for class mids.

 

We'll need to draft kids, both halfback and wing running types...  and smalls.

And we need an injection of quality mature mids... Gaff could be one for the outside, but we need a class in/outside player to add to Oli & Angus.

We'll need to trade for them.

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

Jesse is absolutely a deep forward. Has been playing the role (along with others) all year and kicking bags. He's 6th in the Coleman after playing part of the year wandering up the ground and even at centre clearances. Something you don't see Hawkins, Riewoldt or Brown do. You've got to open your eyes.

Again with the Weed. Been in the system 3 years and still can't get a game. 8 goals in 15 games. Jesse kicked 40+ in his first season. And you want to go with TMac and Weed... You want to take the best attack in the game and go into it with just TMac and a kid who is yet to prove he can do anything.

I guess you could be right. After all we don't know the end result of Weed's career yet. I'm confident Hogan will end up the better player by a mile. I hope we stick with good players instead of trading them out because we're so disgusted with our current crop of mids. If you're that upset about how bad guys like Oliver, Tracca, Viney and Brayshaw are going, you could trade one of them? Or maybe hang in for another year or two and see how they go when they crack 100 games.

See you in 8 years.

He is not in any way a deep forward.  He is a natural high half-forward.  He'll get slaughtered as deep forward, in big game pressure.

We could only do that, with an open forwardline like we get in smaller games, on occasions...  Or to bring it to ground,  but we are in no way classy enough, Re small forwards, to capitalise on this ploy. 

 

Jesse has to play high, and roam around.   He can't even kick, when close to goal.    Playing high frees him up.

 

The best thing is to trade him, and use the proceeds to acquire others.

 

Tyson, I'll take the 2nd Rnd'r, or a trade

 

I wonder if Weitering is approachable ?  for a price ?

Also Harry Mckay.

[DV8 2,271]

1 minute ago, DV8 said:

I hope we stick with good players instead of

 

1 minute ago, DV8 said:

If you're that upset about how bad guys like Oliver, Tracca, Viney and Brayshaw are going, you could trade one of them?

Never been unhappy about Oliver...  nor Brayshaw for that matter, apart from a concern about his health maintenance.

Brayshaw has upped his ante this backend of 2018.

Viney we already know about, as a tough in-under. no problem with him apart from pretending to be the man of steel, Re his bones.

 

Petracca is still a boy, hiding in a mans body. still too much puppy fat.  And an amateur attitude to the game.

I'll give Petracca another season (2019), to sort his head out. 

 

So it only leaves 2 candidates we can trade with, for anything decent at all.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

1 minute ago, DV8 said:

He is not in any way a deep forward.  He is a natural high half-forward.  He'll get slaughtered as deep forward, in big game pressure.

We could only do that, with an open forwardline like we get in smaller games, on occasions...  Or to bring it to ground,  but we are in no way classy enough, Re small forwards, to capitalise on this ploy. 

 

Jesse has to play high, and roam around.   He can't even kick, when close to goal.    Playing high frees him up.

 

The best thing is to trade him, and use the proceeds to acquire others.

 

Tyson, I'll take the 2nd Rnd'r, or a trade

 

I wonder if Weitering is approachable ?  for a price ?

Also Harry Mckay.

I'll say it again and slower this time. He's kicked almost as many goals as those other deep forwards while playing less game time there. TMac has been our deep forward more often than him. The point isn't even that (which is correct, despite your blindness), it's that the forward line IS FUNCTIONING. We're the best attack in the game?!!

He's kicked 9 bags of 3 or more this year. Where was he kicking them? From outside fifty? From the wing? Open your eyes. He absolutely is a deep forward and absolutely is effective in the role, even with TMac in the side. Now. You can say he isn't all you like... it's clear you're delusional and blind. The FACTS ARE.... He IS a deep forward. Is playing successfully when put in that role and will continue there.

Can't kick accurately? This just goes on and on doesn't it. His 4 seasons to date. 41.19, 41.33, 20.6 and 47.23.... DO the math. He's shooting at better than 66% in three of those seasons. Yet again, you're flat out wrong, and guilty of idiotic groupthink handed to you by god-knows-who in the media.

Jesse doesn't HAVE to play high. He has to kick goals. And he's doing that. When he plays deep.

The "best" thing is to trade him? No. It isn't. Pure and simple. The best thing is to keep the AA KP forward at the age of 23.

Hahaha. Tyson a second rounder?!!! Are you taking the pi55 now?

 

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

4 minutes ago, DV8 said:

Never been unhappy about Oliver...  nor Brayshaw for that matter, apart from a concern about his health maintenance.

Brayshaw has upped his ante this backend of 2018.

Viney we already know about, as a tough in-under. no problem with him apart from pretending to be the man of steel, Re his bones.

Petracca is still a boy, hiding in a mans body. still too much puppy fat.  And an amateur attitude to the game.

I'll give Petracca another season (2019), to sort his head out. 

So it only leaves 2 candidates we can trade with, for anything decent at all.

Jesus your formatting needs work.

The question on midfielders was rhetorical. You're floating ideas of trading our best footballers, I'm making them sound absurd. Have done it half a dozen times now. Not that you're paying attention.

So to sum up. Hogan's going nowhere. You're proposing trading him because he's not a deep forward (which he is), or because he's not accurate (which he is) because you feel you can "get value" in unproven draft picks (which you can't guarantee) and because you can play an AFL quality deep forward in Weed (he isn't).

Do me a favour. Don't quote me again. Especially not to repeat your babble a sixth time. 

[Pates 9,660]

Thinking more about it what struck me was when Sydney had the ball, even when we were coming for them in the final quarter, they didn't panic. Whereas save for a couple of players like Salem, Lewis, and Jetta we were always worried about turning it over so they reverted to the "well might as well kick it long" mantra. Sydney new how to use the wide expanses of the G, working angles and making multiple leads to create space and movement, particularly in the third quarter.

But that was also evident when we got a look at goal, almost every shot looked hurried with no confidence. It was only until we were "out of the game" that we seemed to be released of that pressure, which immediately came back when we were in the game. What does that say about our players mindsets? Should we be bringing in some hypnotist to break them out of this self destructive attitude?

[Sir Why You Little 37,118]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Nathan Burke? The loser St Kilda guy that once helped us find a new coach by being on our interview panel....M Neeld.

GAGF.

It was Dean Bailey actually. The rest of what you have sad i agree with!!

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

I'll say it again and slower this time. He's kicked almost as many goals as those other deep forwards while playing less game time there. TMac has been our deep forward more often than him. The point isn't even that (which is correct, despite your blindness), it's that the forward line IS FUNCTIONING. We're the best attack in the game?!!

He's kicked 9 bags of 3 or more this year. Where was he kicking them? From outside fifty? From the wing? Open your eyes. He absolutely is a deep forward and absolutely is effective in the role, even with TMac in the side. Now. You can say he isn't all you like... it's clear you're delusional and blind. The FACTS ARE.... He IS a deep forward. Is playing successfully when put in that role and will continue there.

Can't kick accurately? This just goes on and on doesn't it. His 4 seasons to date. 41.19, 41.33, 20.6 and 47.23.... DO the math. He's shooting at better than 66% in three of those seasons. Yet again, you're flat out wrong, and guilty of idiotic groupthink handed to you by god-knows-who in the media.

Jesse doesn't HAVE to play high. He has to kick goals. And he's doing that. When he plays deep.

The "best" thing is to trade him? No. It isn't. Pure and simple. The best thing is to keep the AA KP forward at the age of 23.

Hahaha. Tyson a second rounder?!!! Are you taking the pi55 now?

 

 

1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

I'll say it again and slower this time. He's kicked almost as many goals as those other deep forwards while playing less game time there. TMac has been our deep forward more often than him. The point isn't even that (which is correct, despite your blindness), it's that the forward line IS FUNCTIONING. We're the best attack in the game?!!

He's kicked 9 bags of 3 or more this year. Where was he kicking them? From outside fifty? From the wing? Open your eyes. He absolutely is a deep forward and absolutely is effective in the role, even with TMac in the side. Now. You can say he isn't all you like... it's clear you're delusional and blind. The FACTS ARE.... He IS a deep forward. Is playing successfully when put in that role and will continue there.

Can't kick accurately? This just goes on and on doesn't it. His 4 seasons to date. 41.19, 41.33, 20.6 and 47.23.... DO the math. He's shooting at better than 66% in three of those seasons. Yet again, you're flat out wrong, and guilty of idiotic groupthink handed to you by god-knows-who in the media.

Jesse doesn't HAVE to play high. He has to kick goals. And he's doing that. When he plays deep.

The "best" thing is to trade him? No. It isn't. Pure and simple. The best thing is to keep the AA KP forward at the age of 23.

Hahaha. Tyson a second rounder?!!! Are you taking the pi55 now?

 

I don't care how many goals you think he's kicked in relation to others stats.

He hasn't been successful when the press has been applied to us in the mids,,, and forcing us wide and narrow into our F50. 

He has not done well when we get controlled thru the middle.

 

He has played well, when the game is open in lesser games, and when he plays high.

When we have an open forward 50, and 2 or 3 talls in there to divide the defenders, he can do Ok.

 

We will not get that latitude in finals matches.  And we did not get that today.

You can speak slowly, you can speak all night to the wall for all I care, your wrong.

 

Jesse is not suited to playing as THE Deep forward. unless they leave him one out.

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

Jesus your formatting needs work.

The question on midfielders was rhetorical. You're floating ideas of trading our best footballers, I'm making them sound absurd. Have done it half a dozen times now. Not that you're paying attention.

So to sum up. Hogan's going nowhere. You're proposing trading him because he's not a deep forward (which he is), or because he's not accurate (which he is) because you feel you can "get value" in unproven draft picks (which you can't guarantee) and because you can play an AFL quality deep forward in Weed (he isn't).

Do me a favour. Don't quote me again. Especially not to repeat your babble a sixth time. 

my formatting is just fine, as far as I'm concerned.

My eyes may need some help, but the formatting is how i like to read it.  With space around the text.  So i can see it easily.

[Demonsone 2,043]

Definite mental toughness issues which cannot be ignored.. Sure we miss Hibbard , Melksham & Viney but FFS how do the Swans find a way with 2 players down to win ... wtf is wrong with our club that can’t forge the strong mental toughness?? 

[DV8 2,271]

If I have anything at all to do with it Hogan will be traded.

Tyson as well.

 

We need changes this year as we're running out of mature leaders to settle this team.  You think today was bad and directionless.  Wait till 2021, if we don't add leaders into this group.

 

This years trade period is crucial for us.

[DV8 2,271]

2 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

Definite mental toughness issues which cannot be ignored.. Sure we miss Hibbard , Melksham & Viney but FFS how do the Swans find a way with 2 players down to win ... wtf is wrong with our club that can’t forge the strong mental toughness?? 

We've had a fear in the club of switching thru traffic, going back into traffic to open up the angles into our forwardline. They coral us to one wing and hold us wide and then we just surrender up and bomb long under duress.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

13 minutes ago, DV8 said:

my formatting is just fine, as far as I'm concerned.

My eyes may need some help, but the formatting is how i like to read it.  With space around the text.  So i can see it easily.

 

15 minutes ago, DV8 said:

 

I don't care how many goals you think he's kicked in relation to others stats.

He hasn't been successful when the press has been applied to us in the mids,,, and forcing us wide and narrow into our F50. 

He has not done well when we get controlled thru the middle.

 

He has played well, when the game is open in lesser games, and when he plays high.

When we have an open forward 50, and 2 or 3 talls in there to divide the defenders, he can do Ok.

 

We will not get that latitude in finals matches.  And we did not get that today.

You can speak slowly, you can speak all night to the wall for all I care, your wrong.

 

Jesse is not suited to playing as THE Deep forward. unless they leave him one out.

I don't THINK he's kicked them?! I KNOW he has?

Of course he hasn't done well when we're controlled through the middle. Who has?! Even BUDDY doesn't do well when his midfield gets controlled. That's every forward IN HISTORY. You're taking pot shots at him now when his midfield isn't on top? Give me strength...

"When we have an open forward 50, and 2 or 3 talls in there to divide the defenders, he can do Ok."

Of course, again... every forward line going round that applies to. But you're picking and choosing your history again. His previous three seasons he would be double and triple teamed, bring the ball to ground, or just mark it and kick it himself. TMac giving him company in the F line is a recent development. He used to have the job on his own, with terrible midfields feeding him the ball, and he STILL kicked 40. Once again, your facts are nonsense, and your reading of his footy is miles off. It's the opposite of what's going on, actually.

"You can speak slowly, you can speak all night to the wall for all I care, your wrong."

Literally NOTHING you've said has been a rebuttal of anything I've said. Pretty much everything I've said has proven, in multiple ways, that you're wrong. I don't often get into these inane discussions with posters because they're exactly that... inane... but this is amazing. I haven't come across anything as far separated from reality on here in a while.

"Jesse is not suited to playing as THE Deep forward. unless they leave him one out."

Jesse played his first seasons as the only deep forward, and in case you missed it, the whole league has been double teaming him his whole career when given that role. WRONG. AGAIN. Incredible.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

23 minutes ago, DV8 said:

my formatting is just fine, as far as I'm concerned.

My eyes may need some help, but the formatting is how i like to read it.  With space around the text.  So i can see it easily.

Fair enough I guess.

Although it's worth pointing out.... Are you aware that you don't have to read it, and we do?

I reckon that's enough now, don't you? You've said nothing new for the last half a dozen posts, and I'm sure you're as sick of this as I am. I look forward to getting back to you on this in the future, and proving once and for all how out of your mind you are in your suggestion.

[Rogue 585]

11 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Although it's worth pointing out.... Are you aware that you don't have to read it, and we do?

Exactly what I was thinking.