The Need for Outside Midfielders

[Skuit 10,031]

While it means nothing, I think the Swans locked in DanHan on a pretty decent five-year deal just a couple of seasons back. Peaked in around 2016 . . .

[whatwhat say what 22,757]

fwiw, jason taylor loved lewis taylor in his draft year - i believe that if salem had gone by pick 9, we were all set to take the diminutive lewis

i...am not a fan

[goodwindees 2,488]

On 7/4/2018 at 10:19 AM, Skuit said:

While it means nothing, I think the Swans locked in DanHan on a pretty decent five-year deal just a couple of seasons back. Peaked in around 2016 . . .

G’day Skuit. I missed the first half of this Swans/Cats game as I was at training. I was wondering how DanHan is going mate. 

[Skuit 10,031]

10 minutes ago, goodwindees said:

G’day Skuit. I missed the first half of this Swans/Cats game as I was at training. I was wondering how DanHan is going mate. 

Playing like his mind is elsewhere . . .

[deelete my account 1,194]

6 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Playing like his mind is elsewhere . . .

I'm genuinely surprised he's only 27, seemed like a 31 year old player. Edit: Might just be that he's an inside mid that looks like he's played a taxing style for his entire career. I'd prefer Zak Jones over DanHan

Edited July 5, 2018 by John Demonic

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

Just now, John Demonic said:

I'm genuinely surprised he's only 27, seems like a 31 year old lol.

0 tackles so far

[goodwindees 2,488]

I appreciate he’s coming off no pre season with groin issues but his recent form and in particular his stats tonight indicate as I suggested a player now in decline. I seriously hope I’m wrong but my mail is that Dees have tabled an extremely generous 4 year offer which only requires the Dees to come up with the Pick that satisfies the Swans for this to happen. Swans are desperate for the Salary Cap relief plus need 1st Round Picks for Darcy Moore & McGovern. 

[DeleteUser 638]

3 minutes ago, goodwindees said:

I appreciate he’s coming off no pre season with groin issues but his recent form and in particular his stats tonight indicate as I suggested a player now in decline. I seriously hope I’m wrong but my mail is that Dees have tabled an extremely generous 4 year offer which only requires the Dees to come up with the Pick that satisfies the Swans for this to happen. Swans are desperate for the Salary Cap relief plus need 1st Round Picks for Darcy Moore & McGovern. 

Geez! Define "extremely generous"?

thx for sharing bee tee dubs

[deelete my account 1,194]

Viney has the burst speed to be an outside mid, if Hannebury and Oliver are on inside mid duties to feed it to him... 

Edited July 5, 2018 by John Demonic

[goodwindees 2,488]

13 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

Viney has the burst speed to be an outside mid, if Hannebury and Oliver are on inside mid duties to feed it to him... 

John, Viney will never and can never be an outside mid. 

[deelete my account 1,194]

10 minutes ago, goodwindees said:

John, Viney will never and can never be an outside mid. 

I could say the same about Hannebury though? Whats the point of acquiring him?

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by John Demonic

[DeleteUser 638]

1 minute ago, John Demonic said:

I could say the same about Hannebury though? Whats the point of acquiring him?

Leaving the obvious important point about position aside - how many flags does he have? Maybe the club values his skills and especially big game finals experience or prepping for tilt at finals

[deelete my account 1,194]

3 minutes ago, timbo said:

Leaving the obvious important point about position aside - how many flags does he have? Maybe the club values his skills and especially big game finals experience or prepping for tilt at finals

Fair enough re experience. I just mean, we're chock full of inside mids, and i can't see him playing on the outside, whereas having Hannebury in there would free up Viney to play more on the outside, he has at least shown a blistering burst of speed. 

Edited July 5, 2018 by John Demonic

[DeleteUser 638]

6 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

Fair enough re experience. I just mean, we're chock full of inside mids, and i can't see him playing on the outside, whereas having Hannebury in there would free up Viney to play more on the outside, he has at least shown a blistering burst of speed. 

I don't disagree (but confess I'm fairly ignorant/green re positioning )

i am going to assume the club know what they're doing (maybe a silly assumption)

 

if this mail is right though I confess I am not super unhappy. Does that mean we can't afford Gaff now (or Langdon as has been mentioned)

[goodwindees 2,488]

56 minutes ago, goodwindees said:

I appreciate he’s coming off no pre season with groin issues but his recent form and in particular his stats tonight indicate as I suggested a player now in decline. I seriously hope I’m wrong but my mail is that Dees have tabled an extremely generous 4 year offer which only requires the Dees to come up with the Pick that satisfies the Swans for this to happen. Swans are desperate for the Salary Cap relief plus need 1st Round Picks for Darcy Moore & McGovern. 

Skuit, you gained my respect by your efforts and investigation skills, so what are your thoughts on 4 years for DanHan and having to give a Pick circa 12 - 18?  And the coin is serious.  

 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

On 1 July 2018 at 11:00 PM, the rolling fog said:

Tyson for Murphy and a pick was the strong mail around the place this arvo

What a disaster if that's the case.  Murphy doesn't offer us anything we don't already have and is coming into his twilight years.  Game has gone past him  IMO and rarely gets on the park.

No thanks.

[DV8 2,271]

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 8:52 PM, Supermercado said:

Finals since 2015 - 24, 20, 34, 35, 34 and 25 touches. Seems to find it alright.

no problem with Gaff finding the ball, or his gut run... as I said, I like the boy.  I'm just not hooked on him 

BUT I think he may be too expensive, for watt he deelivers.

I think the thing we really need is more speed and x-factor,  amongst our mids.  I think If we have Gaff, either ANB or Harmes goes. and certainly Tyson cannot be in a team with these guys, and Gaff.

As far as gut run goes, these guys plus others we are developing, will cover the ground.

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

2 hours ago, goodwindees said:

I appreciate he’s coming off no pre season with groin issues but his recent form and in particular his stats tonight indicate as I suggested a player now in decline. I seriously hope I’m wrong but my mail is that Dees have tabled an extremely generous 4 year offer which only requires the Dees to come up with the Pick that satisfies the Swans for this to happen. Swans are desperate for the Salary Cap relief plus need 1st Round Picks for Darcy Moore & McGovern. 

Great another inside mid as if we don't have enough already. Tyson can't get a game and we want to bring in Hannebury bazaar move.

Are we deliberately trying to be the slowest team in the comp? It's Gaff or nothing for mine.

[whatwhat say what 22,757]

1 minute ago, WERRIDEE said:

Great another inside mid as if we don't have enough already. Tyson can't get a game and we want to bring in Hannebury bazaar move.

Are we deliberately trying to be the slowest team in the comp? It's Gaff or nothing for mine.

gaff or dalhaus for mine

[deelete my account 1,194]

36 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

Great another inside mid as if we don't have enough already. Tyson can't get a game and we want to bring in Hannebury bazaar move.

Are we deliberately trying to be the slowest team in the comp? It's Gaff or nothing for mine.

It would be more of a bazaar move to recruit شار حولي‎ (Bachar Houli)

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

6 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

It would be more of a bazaar move to recruit شار حولي‎ (Bachar Houli)

I'd take Houli I wouldn't take Hannebury he like Tyson wouldn't get a game for our side.

[DV8 2,271]

2 hours ago, goodwindees said:

Skuit, you gained my respect by your efforts and investigation skills, so what are your thoughts on 4 years for DanHan and having to give a Pick circa 12 - 18?  And the coin is serious.  

 

Hannebury... wow wowee

OK, maybe Sloane isn't avail to us?

 

If we can get Hannebury, and get him right, he'll be better than that other 'bury'.   P'''bury 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

3 hours ago, goodwindees said:

I appreciate he’s coming off no pre season with groin issues but his recent form and in particular his stats tonight indicate as I suggested a player now in decline. I seriously hope I’m wrong but my mail is that Dees have tabled an extremely generous 4 year offer which only requires the Dees to come up with the Pick that satisfies the Swans for this to happen. Swans are desperate for the Salary Cap relief plus need 1st Round Picks for Darcy Moore & McGovern. 

I probably wouldn’t go near him by these numbers and when you say he’s in a decline you weren’t wrong.

Dan HANNEBERY

 

GOALS

 

 

0

BELOW AVG

 

GAMES PLAYED

10

 

KICKING EFFICIENCY

 

 

52.8

BELOW AVG

 

CLEARANCES

 

 

2

BELOW AVG

 

CONTESTED POSSESSIONS

 

 

7

BELOW AVG

 

EFFECTIVE DISPOSALS

 

 

13.1

BELOW AVG

 

AFL PREMIERSHIP 2018 STATISTICS AS AT ROUND 15

The numbers are stark.

	2016 average	2016 rank (out of top 120 mids)	2018 average	2018 rank (out of top 121 mids)
Disposals	30.8	5	19.1	83
Kick rating	-3.3%	96	-14.3%	121
Metres gained	427m	13	199m	112
Contested possessions	13.2	10	7	90
Uncontested possessions	17.8	11	11.9	67
Clearances	4.7	36	2	89
Score involvements	7	12	3.4	108
Pressure points	44.2	36	31.4	99

Perhaps the most staggering part of Hannebery's descent is he's still only 27 and should be in the prime of his career.

His foot skills have been worse than any other midfielder in the AFL with his kick rating at -14.3 per cent.

[DV8 2,271]

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 11:00 PM, the rolling fog said:

Tyson for Murphy and a pick was the strong mail around the place this arvo

 

[Skuit 10,031]

5 hours ago, goodwindees said:

Skuit, you gained my respect by your efforts and investigation skills, so what are your thoughts on 4 years for DanHan and having to give a Pick circa 12 - 18?  And the coin is serious.  

 

Underwhelmed and slightly alarmed seems a reasonable response (and apologies if I went a bit too far in my 'investigative' hinting). 

To be perfectly honest though, I haven't seen enough of the Swans over the last year or so to make a fair assessment of his serious form plunge and the potential reasons behind it - shifting balance/game-plan etc. The last I can recall (sometime around the start of last year), he had claimed to be unencumbered by injury but the visual (and statistical) evidence certainly suggested that was indeed the case. A quick Google squizz just now and these theories and denials appear to be ongoing. 

He was, as you said, at least verifiably injured and missed a pre-season this year - which may be still hampering him to an extent. Assuming the injuries aren't chronic (which they very possibly are), and the decline in form not completely terminal - such that he may regain at least some of his dominance but maybe not to extent of his absolute peak - then the broader picture prospect of him coming to the Dees is an interesting one with a number of multifaceted elements. 

I say that after taking a big objective step backward after my initial reaction to your confirmation of my hunch and personal hope that the mail was the snail-mail version of the rumour-mill referencing an offer we'd supposedly put to Hannerbery a couple of years back. That said, everything fits and is completely consistent with our recent history to suggest that this is bona fide current development - particularly with respect to player profile and our evident long-game recruitment approach to targeted players. Taylor and co. (of the Roos' legacy) have shown that they will eventually get their man. 

So, on the basis that he can improve again to at least some level of his capabilities; the first question is obviously that of our need for outside-leaning runners - a specific bugbear of yours as a certain recent investigation has revealed (Dan doesn't have the dash but at least he can run all day). I'm immediately more comfortable with getting Hannerbery if we get Gaff at the same time. It then strikes as a pretty major off-season coup. Without Gaff, it would feel entirely flaccid - strange that. But once we address our primary need, I would then suppose Hannerbery takes on Jones's inside role as Jones transitions to Lewis's duties off half-back.

This makes us an instantly better team, and we're lacking age-bracket balance in the middle - the maturity combined with the necessary endurance etc. to impact from the centre all day with Vince on his last legs and Tyson a spent force. We have precisely no one outside of Nat who has played more than 100 games and who will appear at the bounce this week. Compare with practically every other team in the league. With Gaff (160-plus games) and Hanners (~200) added it becomes a pretty potent and balanced mix of some very talented youth supported by a touch of experience with remaining legs (and final's experience at that). 

Then of course there's the cost - both as to the cap and trading capital. I've held the belief for a long time that we've been pursuing a Cats/Hawks dynasty model - giving the playing group (as close to possible) an early taste of success in the hope that we can keep all the accumulated talent together on reduced financial reward - one of the few levers (no pun) outside of father/son bonuses left to gain a competitive edge in a tightly controlled competition as to equalisation measures. A play for DanHan, on 'serious' coin, together with Gaff and Lever last year however suggests we're instead making a dive for the line in what we believe is our best window. 

Yet, in a broader business sense, that acquisition of young talent over the past few years is basically an accumulation of tradeable currency. I have no idea what it would take in terms off offloading and to where to bag a pick in the late first-round range to satisfy Sydney, and whatever it is it will no doubt hurt for supporters in the short-term, but it would effectively be a sell-off of stocks to aid the longer-term agenda. I.e. too expensive for Hannerbery on the surface, but an investment strategy. While many here have baulked at the prospect, Brayshaw would be the most likely option with value around the required range in this regard.

In: Hanners & Gaff, out: potentially Gus, is a win on balance despite the immediate bitter pill (and likely ongoing flourishing of Brayshaw elsewhere - a footballer who I once considered a future club leader and probable Demon for life). Despite that, my conclusion is that the risk of Hannerbery being permanently crippled and never returning to anywhere near his best is far too great for the gamble - although, despite again my very reasonable MFCCS in this regard, I trust that our recruiters are across the issue in this instance and not just seeing stars (Sydney, however, being so readily willing to dump is a concern).

Hopefully, his recent form-slump is just a matter of of the supposed in-principal agreement and best-case Hannerbery  preserving his body for our charge to the flag! Mega-TL:DR (apologies) - maybe, but I'm an optimist and really have no idea.