4 hours ago, chook fowler said:

It seems Goodwin and McCartney are on the same page. That's enough for me.

OK, a question. Which of our current coaches do you think is most highly rated by the football industry as a whole?

I really hope he's happy with the situation and I really hope he stays.

1 hour ago, Die Hard Demon said:

Don’t be surprised if Paul Roos is secretly attempting to increase the value of Watts by making those statements. Roosy of all people knows the club is bigger than any one individual & he loves the dees. He will want us coming out on top from this trade. & this is a really sneaky way to help our cause. 

Sorry, but you're kidding yourself. Mainly because other clubs would know Watts well enough anyway and Roos isn't going to change any of that. But also because it ignores Roos's actual words, which were aimed at Goodwin not at other clubs. And don't ignore what Roos actually said, it's really good advice, which I hope Goodwin heeds.

45 minutes ago, Akum said:

And if it's not true, or highly exaggerated?

The guy was held back from the first two pre-season matches for just that. 

There are any number of accounts of Watts currently doing the rounds. None of them are particularly complimentary in terms of his application. Sure, they could all be BS, but in that case, odd that the BS is all in one direction. If you can find reports from anyone who claims to know Watts saying that he's a player who pushes himself to the limit and does everything he can to get the max out of himself, I'd be interested to see them.

2 hours ago, Number of the Beast said:

a section of the MFC supporter base do give a damn about the ousting of a clubman

If he's such a great clubman, how come he's never been in the leadership group?

9 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

I don't think our views are too different.... I agree with a lot of what you've said.

The whole Watts v Goody thing is very interesting and obviously sensitive to a lot of people. It seems like people feel the need to choose a side. And because of this some here are saying there is a divide in the club. This is the utter rubbish I really hate, because the reality is there will always be friction between players and the coaches. I can't remember where I heard it (I think it was AFL teams on Fox) where they were discussing of the 44 on the list - 22 will be happy, 5 won't care etc etc.... So all this Goody v Watts is really silly IMO.   

As for JW I am not buying in to the speculation, I just want like you've pointed out 22 or 24 committed blokes to play our brand, whatever that is designed by Goody and the leadership group. If that includes JW great, if not that is fine as well.

People also tend to forget the Goody has been here at the club for 3 years, this wouldn't have been all of a sudden out of the blue decision. Until I hear any different and as long as JW is treated well which ever decision is taken, I don't really care what happens to him. That's harsh I know, but all I want is a committed 22.

Maybe I have missed something but are we sending a message to JW or maybe he's used up all of his lives?? I don't know for sure, but lets be honest he hasn't lit the world on fire. A couple good games v average opposition.... There's no doubt he can play, but it's not consistent, and hes is 26 or 27 which is the prime for any footballer.

For me personally in this whole saga, as long as JW is treated fairly and we get fair value (close enough to) and we can have 22 - 25 or whatever committed players to the cause I will consider Goody and the FD doing their jobs. But like you said @rpfc I think we are building a really good young core, and we need to keep adding pieces, and our turn will come.

 

 

 

 

So if a footballer is at his prime at the age of 26 then why are we giving 26 year old Jack to another club? Makes no sense.

I'm only posting here as its literally the only way to vent my frustrations about this whole fiasco. I find it unbelievable that we couldn't last longer than a year without Roos before exhibiting the same dysfunctional traits which were so prevalent during the Neeld years.

The character assassination of Jack Watts in this thread is unbelievable. He's a party boy? HA. But what is more frustrating is seeing our 'leader' Jones come out and publicly harpoon him before his jacket hit the floor. Then Goodwin comes out and confirms, in so many words, we don't even want him anymore. Talk about smiling assassin. Why can't these people just keep their mouths shut? If not out of respect for a player that has endured one of the worst clubs in modern history and shown continued loyalty to the red and blue, then for the integrity of the club itself.

Jack Watts is a limited footballer. This isn't through lack of application. The idea that someone has survived 9 years in the AFL system but isn't mentally tough enough or serious enough as an athlete is ridiculous. But here we are, the same tired discussion, attacking a player that despite good form is lambasted because he's too 'nice'. And yes, his form this year was good. The statistics mentioned in this thread countless times have backed that statement up.

You're all welcome to sink back into the Neeld era. 'Tough' men with loud voices and small minds forcing awful game day strategies on us (starting the forward line in defence? Nice one Goodwin you flop). People in this thread talk up Richmond. Richmond have players who can actually hit a target. We're trading the only player in our team who can kick because he smiles too much. Dustin threatened to stab a woman in the eye with a knife. I guess that's less distracting for the club because he's a better player. 

Oh yeah Lever is going to be great. Those 2 tackles in the grand final showed how much tougher he is than Watts. Oh and for the record, Jones may try hard but his decision making is a joke. He should be more worried about his own performance before stabbing a mate in the back.

I'm over supporting this basketcase of a club. I have to keep watching. I've barracked for this team my whole life. But I've lost complete faith in the administration and I do not want to support it with my wallet. I look forward to attending games as an AFL member. No idea how much clubs see out of the membership. Hopefully its nothing.

 

4 hours ago, bing181 said:

If he's such a great clubman, how come he's never been in the leadership group?

Because he's not a leader - never has been

Doesn't make him any less valuable

I expect that this time next week, he'll be gone...then, we can all get some sleep

OMac, Dom, Buggy, Bernie, Milkshake - watch yer backs....DL is coming for you!

7 hours ago, bing181 said:

Don't know how divisive it is on the inside. Looks like the FD and players - at least the leaders - are all on the same page here.

As for vitriol, what vitriol? Jack's a nice guy, with some real skills, but there are two sides to every discussion and if you want to build the hard, win-at-all-costs culture that we've seen at clubs like Hawthorn or the Swans, then you have to make hard, win-at-all-costs decisions. Maybe this is one of them.

If Jack went to either of those clubs he would be outstanding for them.  He would thrive in a settled team with an experienced coach who is not under pressure to 'reach finals' or has the burden of a club's dismal history. 

My theory is Jack reached his best so far, in 2016 when he was played primarily in one position - the link role.  Prior to that and this year he was played all over the park in unsettled teams with rookie coaches. 

Not making excuses for Jack's faults nor diminishing the importance of achieving team expectations, just saying that Roos knew how to get the best from him and played to Jacks strengths.  I would love to see him go to Hawks or Swans. Preferably Sydney, where the media will leave him alone.

7 hours ago, bing181 said:

 

As for vitriol, what vitriol?

Come on, bing - he's been called every derogatory name under this sun by some posters

 

7 hours ago, Die Hard Demon said:

I have a solution for his lack of effort .. What if the AFL were to allow Watts to wear his board shorts whilst playing.. he might make more of an effort to win the footy & get himself on camera. 

Wow, you're hilarious

Good post

4 hours ago, bing181 said:

If he's such a great clubman, how come he's never been in the leadership group?

Not every clubman is part of the leadership group. We know the family and Jack, he's stuck fast thru a lot at Melbourne and signed a new contract, Neeld nearly got rid of him, but he's never requested to leave.. This is how he's rewarded.

You have your point of view - I have mine. 

 

58 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

OMac, Dom, Buggy, Bernie, Milkshake - watch yer backs....DL is coming for you!

 

Bernie is/was in the leadership group. As you'd expect with someone of his experience. And by the time the others you mention have had 9 years in the system, if they're still going, you'd expect similar of most of them as well.

5 hours ago, bing181 said:

If he's such a great clubman, how come he's never been in the leadership group?

He's on the Demonland banner (above) and popular with our sponsors (below)!

 

1 minute ago, CBDees said:

He's on the Demonland banner (above) and popular with our sponsors (below)!

 

And your point is?

28 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Come on, bing - he's been called every derogatory name under this sun by some posters

Have to confess, I haven't read every post. There are a lot of them.

42 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Roos knew how to get the best from him and played to Jacks strengths. 

 

Including dropping him for his last game in charge.

1 minute ago, bing181 said:

Including dropping him for his last game in charge.

Jack played in the last game of 2016.  You may be thinking the last game of 2015 when Roos dropped him.  It had the desired affect as he came back and played his best (but not great) year in 2016.

As I said I'm not making any excuses for Jack and I accept he is gone.  I would just like to seem him go to a club that is settled with a coach who plays to his strengths.  Sydney or Hawks would fit the bill for mine.

4 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Jack played in the last game of 2016. 

 

I stand corrected.

1 minute ago, bing181 said:

I stand corrected.

All good.  Thank you.

9 hours ago, Number of the Beast said:

Bang on - the vitriol some Demon "supporters" show Jack Watts  is disappointing. 

I'm sure if he goes to Port he will have a few good seasons with less pressure. 

Can't change people's perceptions here, to me it is a bad decision, but familiarity breeds contempt and that  is a big part of the problem.. Posters and supporters feel cheated , frustrated at the fact that Jack  is not the mercurial saviour he was expected to be. 

People who want to trade him out look likely to get their wish. 

For me just have to agree to disagree I suppose. Another divisive post season decision by the MFC in the last 10 years.

 

Utter tripe. Any "vitriol" if you really want to call it that is directed towards the supporters who seem intent on tearing down the coach and FD based on their decision to trade an underperforming player who likes to pick and choose when he will take his job seriously.

Noone feels "cheated" that he is not a mercurial saviour, we feel cheated when we hear that a senior player turns up to preseason in poor condition, we feel cheated when a senior player throws out one arm in a poor attempt to tackle, we feel cheated when a senior player doesn't compare in a marking contest. 

This is not vitriol, it is pointing out some very obvious failings of one of our senior players.

8 hours ago, Number of the Beast said:

Sorry to tell you but Jack is not the sole reason we don't come close to what the last two premiers have dished up in their respective finals campaigns. His departure does not put us closer either. This thread's got momentum because a section of the MFC supporter base do give a damn about the ousting of a clubman. But , as I said in another post; agree to disagree.

Jake Spencer was also a clubman, one who plays a position we are quite short on. Why not the angst at delisting him? 

8 hours ago, Akum said:

The problem is, it sure reads like hate & venom rather than disappointment.

That's because people are reading these posts through their own emotional perspective. Any criticism of Watts is seen as hate or vitriol.

8 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

This is Goodwin not acknowledging a 3- year contract. Goodwin failed to make the finals. Who is to blame?? Jack Watts ??

Really divisive decision to the footy club. No basis. No discipline issues. Can Goodwin get the best from Watts. No he chooses to tell him to ‘explore options to GO ELSEWHERE ‘. That means I don’t want you. 

Why do you think the club has told Watts to explore his options? Do you really think Goodwin, Viney, Mahoney, McCartney and the rest of the FD are doing it simply because they don't like him? Do you really think they're that stupid? How do you know there's no basis, no discipline issues? 

How about we start by creating our own model?

Mossquito fleets and forward pressure blah, blah. Richmond were kissed on the you know what this year, injuries to talls early and Hardwick was forced to play smalls. It worked. All of a sudden they found players that could hit targets and some of those players were pitiful last year.

If the FD believe Watts doesn't fit in for a premiership tilt let's leave it at that, I have no choice but to except it.

In an interview earlier this year Watts stated he had an important accounting exam the day after his debut. Yet let's throw him to the wolves. He will be fine in the future.

Unfortunately it's an emotional sport and I'm a fan of Jack and maybe I only see the positives he brings.

Turning up pre-season in an unsatisfactory condition doesn't warrant the criticism. A lot of players are guilty of that, look at Oliver, but I guess he has time on his side. 

I've read many times he likes to party and I'm glad he's been discrete if that's the case because if Watts ends up at Port he could certainly give Ryder some lessons about keeping a low profile when hitting the town.

 

Anyways, just bring trade week forward so we can start the welcome threads.

I'm so confused as to why a lot of people are so concerned with trading a player that has not once been in our top 3 b&f in 9 years. A player that has not once shown aggression or appetite for the footy, not once dug deep and put in 110% effort.

 

Yeah he's stuck by us through the hard times, but so did 40 other players. Jack Watts will not make a Sydney 22 mark my words. He's skilful yes, does he improve our team? Sometimes. But I believe he let's us down consistently as well. Football is a business and I believe we have got all we can get out of Jack and it's best for BOTH parties to see if he can develop his footy elsewhere.

If Jack wasn't a #1 pick no one would bat an eyelid. 

I hope jack does play some good footy elsewhere, and we get a fair trade for him.

 

Anyone that said earlier that Jack isn't a party boy as well....well I know first hand how much of one he is....to say he acts professionally is a joke.

 

 

57 minutes ago, bing181 said:

And your point is?

He doesn't need to be in the leadership team to add value to the Club. Obviously the sponsors picked him and Hogan as being who they wanted to identify with (and similarly Demonland included them on the banner)!

Not every player or even every good player needs to be in the leadership team (which sometimes is too big)!