2 hours ago, GCDee said:

Rising star

80+ goals in a bottom side

Clearly works his ass off to perform and return from injury.

 

My question to you if Watts was a pick 15+ would we have stuck by him all these years? No chance.

 

80 goals in a bottom side? Don't remember that. What year exactly?

2 hours ago, GCDee said:

No I don't think we would because he would have been de listed or traded after 4 years and forgotten very quickly

You don't like Jack do you? Did he pinch your girl?

We are approaching a time within this club now,  where we could be able to really make a difference in this clubs History, & its Cultural statement.

 

We have to grab this time Now, like a young Kelvin Templeton mark.

With strength & power.  Grab it & run with it, hard & fast, as well as we can to make big strides.

 

We cannot afford the extra drag of those who are not pushing the club along with all their might.

sorry jw,

 

given that the essence of the thread is do we ...or don't we?

I'm not sure you can really visit this until someone actually offers yo something .

A possible rejig is might we ?   indeed we 'might'  , but otherwise surely it can't be..well..there's Curtain #1, Box 2 or the mystery prize !!

You would only trade if you at least came out evens and then only for something  'other' than that which you have but need.

There's not too many that can do Jack's role(s) There are very few if NONE as a better kick. Jack is one of the very few who actually knows where to be on the ground but granted he's limited in that just like about half the team he has no appetite for tackling.

So if it were we MIGHT entertain a trade it's going to have to be for someone as good if not better in many depts and in an area we don't currently have sufficient personnel. Otherwise...why bother.

I'd be up for looking at anyone's proposal...for just about anyone.

nothing  on the table as yet..  so who was it  that suggested this is speculation about speculating ?

51 minutes ago, DV8 said:

If he was to say NO to being traded, I can imagine what past admin's have done in that scenario. 

They would promptly go & sit down to pisss.

 

Now, this Admin has the opportunity, to stand up & take it's strongest action.

If Jack has a pea heart, won't commit to the workload demanded of him and says 'no' to being traded, just let him 'coast along' at Casey for the rest of his contract.

He's good enough to blag it at VFL level and help Casey win a flag. Once he's out of contract, see ya later, off to sell boardshorts, smash craft beers at trendy bars and do whatever. 

 

That's right, that's how we need to approach him now.

He's had way more opportunities to buy in at this club with real Zest.

The time is right now, to sever ties.  Make it a clean cut, and move on with the list spot, for some kid who really desperately wants a shot.

Maybe even a Fritsch?  Who knows.

The thing is we have stop stop being jerked around & move forward.

I've been on the fence with Watts. On one hand he has the talent to be a match winner and one of the best users of the footy in our side.

On the other hand he lacks the application and desire to be a genuine superstar of the club. The fact Jones came out publicly about this and Goodwin had to send a message TWICE this year speaks volumes.

Looking at the way the Dogs have handled Stringer and its a no brainer for me. He's had 9 years in the system, if he doesn't get it by now and especially after the message he got last pre-season then he will never get it, not at the MFC anyway. I'd be surprised if he's still on our list come November.

23 minutes ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

80 goals in a bottom side? Don't remember that. What year exactly?

Over the 2 years referred to in the previous comment bob

21 minutes ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

You don't like Jack do you? Did he pinch your girl?

I've been a jack supporter until this year. 

We missed out on finals by 2 goals and this guy couldn't turn up to the start of the year in shape, and cant be trusted away from the club...

Not saying that us missing finals is 100% on jack, I just get frustrated when people are happy to keep someone who isn't 100% committed to the club or team, just because he is "a good kick"

 

 

2 goals ???

Gee..how many missed sodas this year fron less than 30 ?

Somehow its all Jacks fault !! or not.

Surely a strawmans ??

Jack shoulders maybe 1/18 of the job. 

Some want to reinvent history to suit. Read 

Jack not out of shape

About the only thing I'm certain of is Watt's isnt Goody's go to guy and Jones butters his toast too much.

There's been more than handfuls of guys who haven't applied themselves 100% in games. 

Well whether he's there or not come preseason lets see who applies themselves on ...and off.

If Watts is there he'd be only too aware he's gotva target on the back of his head. 

 

 

54 minutes ago, GCDee said:

Over the 2 years referred to in the previous comment bob

Thanks for clearing that one up. But around two goals a game is hardly great for a full forward is it? Nothing to write home about. My namesake kicked 254 goals in 125 games and he was a half forward flanker.

10 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

2 goals ???

Gee..how many missed sodas this year fron less than 30 ?

Somehow its all Jacks fault !! or not.

Surely a strawmans ??

Jack shoulders maybe 1/18 of the job. 

Some want to reinvent history to suit. Read 

Jack not out of shape

About the only thing I'm certain of is Watt's isnt Goody's go to guy and Jones butters his toast too much.

There's been more than handfuls of guys who haven't applied themselves 100% in games. 

Well whether he's there or not come preseason lets see who applies themselves on ...and off.

If Watts is there he'd be only too aware he's gotva target on the back of his head. 

 

 

I did mention not 100% Watts' fault. 

But sure go on a "it's all jack watts' fault tangent

If you're happy with a Medicore team who will never push for greatness, then sure hang onto players no matter how talented who don't want to apply them selves fully. 

Question for you... 

If you were the coach calling the shots and Jack was your "employee" would you trust him going into a do or die preliminary final knowing full well he had 1 too many beers the weekend before and hasn't prepared as well as he should? 

I sure as hell  wouldn't 

 

3 minutes ago, GCDee said:

I did mention not 100% Watts' fault. 

But sure go on a "it's all jack watts' fault tangent

If you're happy with a Medicore team who will never push for greatness, then sure hang onto players no matter how talented who don't want to apply them selves fully. 

Question for you... 

If you were the coach calling the shots and Jack was your "employee" would you trust him going into a do or die preliminary final knowing full well he had 1 too many beers the weekend before and hasn't prepared as well as he should? 

I sure as hell  wouldn't 

 

You are the one who introduced a spurious ingredient to the discussion. 2 goals was your inference. Your good self acknowledges it later so why mention it if not to tar with brush.

As to your question, oddly vexed as Watts IS one id count on in clutch games but if he hadn't abided due diligence to the cause then he wouldn't be playing. Nor would any other.

I feel Watts is being made the scapegoat for much of the teams ills for which only a much smaller proportion could possibly be of his doing.

As much as anyone might question Jacks preparation for games i would question the clubs preparation of him prior to returning from injuries ( and not just him ).

On the idea of Bosses and tactics, if an employee is pushing the wrong way id be looking to why. 

23 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Jones:  "...That's probably why we tend to come down harder on him, because he's a more senior player." 

I'm glad someone finally admitted the club is harder on Jack than it is others.  That has long be a suspicion of mine.  Among the harsh public talk about Jack by Coach, Captains and even young players there has rarely been a positive word/encouragement to go with it.  Makes me wonder if Jack has become the whipping boy inside the club as well?  Very said if so. 

Harder on him than the younger players. The amount of excuses the supporters give guys like Watts are part of the reason we've been a rabble for so long. Nah it's not Watts' fault he doesn't train/prepare hard enough or take his job seriously, it's the coaches and leadership groups fault for pulling him up on it. Give me a break. 

14 minutes ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Thanks for clearing that one up. But around two goals a game is hardly great for a full forward is it? Nothing to write home about. My namesake kicked 254 goals in 125 games and he was a half forward flanker.

In his first 40 games... against the opposition number 1 backmen every game with your best support being Chris dawes. 

Compare is first 40 games to any other key position forward and Hogan will blow them away. 

The guy is a freak!!!

I'm willing to bet after 125 games Hogan will be very close to a 300 goal forward.

4 hours ago, 64" said:

For Jones to come out and publicly comment on Watts is clear to me.They want him gonski!!

He was responding to a direct question about Watts from G. Lyon

It's not like he called a presser. FMD. Was he supposed to say "no comment" ?

7 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You are the one who introduced a spurious ingredient to the discussion. 2 goals was your inference. Your good self acknowledges it later so why mention it if not to tar with brush.

As to your question, oddly vexed as Watts IS one id count on in clutch games but if he hadn't abided due diligence to the cause then he wouldn't be playing. Nor would any other.

I feel Watts is being made the scapegoat for much of the teams ills for which only a much smaller proportion could possibly be of his doing.

As much as anyone might question Jacks preparation for games i would question the clubs preparation of him prior to returning from injuries ( and not just him ).

On the idea of Bosses and tactics, if an employee is pushing the wrong way id be looking to why. 

Yes I did mention the 2 goal discussion, highlighting just how close we were to a finals berth.

The point of it being raised is to show you can't cary people through a season if they aren't willing to help them selves. 

As I said not 100% on Watts however he has been mentioned by coach and Captain, there is a reason for this, he is meant to be a senior player and if you cant get it right after 9 years it won't click for him. 

Back to the idea of Bosses and tactics, I'm sure after 9 years you would have done this... and possibly decided this guy doesn't have what it takes to be great.

For years we have asked why from Jack, It's no longer about development, he is at his peak... he ain't getting better there is only one way to go for him.

Im not actually against trading Jack. I just don't blame him for all and sundry. If we can better our list ..trade him. 

Ive not seen any mention of what we can get in such trading that does this.

Im talking real world scenarios not fantasy footy follies.

 

42 minutes ago, GCDee said:

Question for you... 

If you were the coach calling the shots and Jack was your "employee" would you trust him going into a do or die preliminary final knowing full well he had 1 too many beers the weekend before and hasn't prepared as well as he should? 

I sure as hell  wouldn't 

 

The thing that frustrates me about this sort of question is you assume Jack has had one too many beers insinuating that is a regular occurrence.  It's just rot.

Everyone knows the two sides of the Jack Watts argument.  The question on whether to trade him is whether you get a better result for the club.  To deny he is best 22 is just silly IMO so if you traded him for something that isn't as good or better what's the point?  That's not going to improve the team.

28 minutes ago, GCDee said:

In his first 40 games... against the opposition number 1 backmen every game with your best support being Chris dawes. 

Compare is first 40 games to any other key position forward and Hogan will blow them away. 

The guy is a freak!!!

I'm willing to bet after 125 games Hogan will be very close to a 300 goal forward.

I really hope you are right but I don't think this will happen. Love to be wrong on this one . I could say John Coleman who kicked over 100 goals in his first season but that's going back a bit I reckon. I wonder how mant Franklin kicked in his first 40 games?

Edited September 20, 20178 yr by Bobby McKenzie

10 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

The thing that frustrates me about this sort of question is you assume Jack has had one too many beers insinuating that is a regular occurrence.  It's just rot.

Everyone knows the two sides of the Jack Watts argument.  The question on whether to trade him is whether you get a better result for the club.  To deny he is best 22 is just silly IMO so if you traded him for something that isn't as good or better what's the point?  That's not going to improve the team.

Too many beers, too much KFC doesn't really matter exactly what it is... he is pissing off goody and Jonesy, with his [censored] poor preparation. It's not good enough.

I'd be interested to know whether the JW supporters would be keen on us getting Motlop. IMO, they are excatly the same. Both have undoubted talent, but pick and choose when they want to apply it.

The only reason I wouldn't trade JW is because I don't believe he has any currency. Clubs outside the eight would be looking at a 150 game new recruit to provide leadership. And of the teams to play finals, I can't see one that would be a good fit.

I think we're stuck with him. 

8 minutes ago, GCDee said:

Too many beers, too much KFC doesn't really matter exactly what it is... he is pissing off goody and Jonesy, with his [censored] poor preparation. It's not good enough.

How many others on the list do you think are doing the same?  You don't know.  Jack is just always asked about so gets the airtime. 

As I recall three were punished by the club during the season.  I think you're being a bit sensitive. 

Faaark, why didn't we just pick Naitanui, then we'd be discussing how he's offered nothing in the last 12 months due to his knee injury. 

Then again, he would have headed west 3 seasons in and we would have ended up with Watts in return.

Edited September 20, 20178 yr by Demon77

23 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

How many others on the list do you think are doing the same?  You don't know.  Jack is just always asked about so gets the airtime. 

As I recall three were punished by the club during the season.  I think you're being a bit sensitive. 

I got no doubt there are others on the list who's professional standards aren't up to scratch... 

Those 4 boys which got caught drinking mid season... were they playing firsts or were the relegated to the 2nds? 

Are they on a large contract like watts? 

Have they been at the club for 9 years? (Spencer probably however he has now been de listed )