56 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Totally disagree.

Finals, and the game tomorrow "will be high intensity tomorrow" . Agree.

You then say "Why do we all look to him to provide fierce contests? Not his primary job." . This is total rubbish. Maybe we could ask the AFL to bring in the Jack Watts rule where if he finds himself in a fierce contest we can stop the game and substitute in a player with some ticker? 

No one disputes Jacks class as an outside reciever, deliverer or shot on goal. But the modern game requires that ALL players win contested ball when required, because the nature of Footy is that you're going to have situations when thats required, and in finals these contests will determine the winner.

If Jack Watts doesn't provide fierce contests at every opportunity, he won't play finals for MFC, and nor should he.

I hear you. I'd love him to be tougher. But we can't all be Chris Judd. He had skills and was hard. But Watts goes in when he needs to? Hence his 5 contested possessions Queen's birthday. Why didnt they drop him after Queen's birthday? His attack on the ball was the same that day as it was against gws. He's only ever been as good as his midfield supply. 

 

We're blinded by our need to be tough. These so called 'non-negotiables'. Why can't kicking be a non-negotiable? 

Watts' 'non-negotiable' should be his skills and going in when he has to. 

If we're lamenting lack of intensity,  put the heat on the 'intense' players. Not the silky one playing deep forward! 

1 hour ago, Stretchyourself said:

I agree. Such a big call dropping watts. The game will be high intensity tomorrow. We'll need Watts' excellent decision making and perfect ball use. 

And besides, Watts is an outside player. Why do we all look to him to provide fierce contests? Not his primary job. We should turn the heat on Viney and the midfielders. That's their job. Watts' job is to finish. He'll only ever play as well as the midfield supply. 

Queen's birthday he was one of our best players? Watts had 5 contested possessions that day. One of the lowest count on the ground. He doesn't crack into a contest. They just gave the ball to him heaps. 

The winning goal he kicked was him receiving the ball. He didn't crack into the contest and win the ball. He ran into space and received an easy uncontested ball all by himself. Then he used his sublime finishing skills and won us the match. 

Our coaches need to bloody smarten up. Yes we all love being tough. Coaches want our players tough. But Viney is our tough guy, Watts is our finisher. Big mistake dropping Watts! 

 

1 hour ago, dl4e said:

Exactly. The other point is Salem is one of our best disposers of the ball as well as Watts. He is not a hard nut either. Watch out for some  ridiculous ball skill errors.

This is all well and good, but it's pretty clear that both players have not been working hard enough to get themselves in a position to be the 'finisher'.  I don't expect either to rack up by contested possession numbers, and I don't think Goody does either - he just expects them to work their backsides off and play their role.  Both Salem and Watts have failed to do that and have been dropped.  It's that simple.  We can't be seen to be rewarding blokes who aren't playing their role properly within our team.

Razor Ray one of the three umps.

Ah well, at least it aint Nicholls

Watts creates a lot of angst @ Demonland. He is one of our most skilled players, doesn't contest hard enough, but if he brought his efforts rounds 3-12 he would still be in the team. 

Can't see how Pedo or Weed get picked ahead of him, Jeff G will certainly miss Watts, as he regularly feeds the ball to Jeffy!

Agree with a number of contributors who can't understand how we are favourites vs Saints looking at our recent form, Riewoldt & Montagna have both often hurt us in the past. The Dees have surprised in a few games this season, where odds have been against us, so here's hoping for a win!

Interesting ( to me ) both  Salem and Watts have struggled since "recovering" from injuries.. Neither quite their former selves.

Chunk is nowhere near his self either.  Would Goody drop him as well ?

I'm not making excuses for anyone but Id like to know the reason that is causing this.

4 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Its our fwd line that has been disfunctional, hence the changes. All the stoppages, i50s, CPs, pressure stats and tackles etc have been good.

Jones has butchered the ball lately.

3 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Jones has butchered the ball lately.

No, I can't have this.

Jones often gets this "butchered the ball" criticism.

However, two factors need be considered.

One he has usually ohas the ball in pressured circumstances.

Two he is always prepared to take the game on. His turnovers ( yes he is guilty on occasion) come as a result of either trying to create an opportunity or being too quick thinking for his teammates.

Just now, Bitter but optimistic said:

No, I can't have this.

Jones often gets this "butchered the ball" criticism.

However, two factors need be considered.

One he has usually ohas the ball in pressured circumstances.

Two he is always prepared to take the game on. His turnovers ( yes he is guilty on occasion) come as a result of either trying to create an opportunity or being too quick thinking for his teammates.

I dont think he has been guilty of this in the past. I did say lately

( coming back in from a long absence.)

 

Just now, leave it to deever said:

I dont think he has been guilty of this in the past. I did say lately

( coming back in from a long absence.)

 

Jones is one of our best ball users. Really interested to see how him and Viney go tomorrow. Apart from Viney's first game, he's been poor the last two weeks. If both continue to struggle to regain form I'd put down this injury to form issue a systemic issue across the club. 

2 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

I dont think he has been guilty of this in the past. I did say lately

( coming back in from a long absence.)

 

Fair enough deever. It's just that I'm a bit sensitive of any criticism of Jones.

As far as I'm concerned he's carried this club for years and is beyond reproach.

28 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

No, I can't have this.

Jones often gets this "butchered the ball" criticism.

However, two factors need be considered.

One he has usually ohas the ball in pressured circumstances.

Two he is always prepared to take the game on. His turnovers ( yes he is guilty on occasion) come as a result of either trying to create an opportunity or being too quick thinking for his teammates.

He is also guilty of lots of cheap handballs out the back of packs too, doesn't take the game on like he used to IMO. Not to mention and ordinary leader when the chips are down. Shows bad body language when we are getting pumped too. IMO the worst captain in the AFL but a Demonland favourite as he stuck fat when we were a rabble.

Edited August 12, 20178 yr by SFebey

Just now, SFebey said:

He is also guilty of lots of cheap handballs out the back of packs too, doesn't take the game on like he used to IMO.

Disagree!

5 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Disagree!

I'm with you on this one, BBO - Jones is still averaging 9 contested possessions a game, and that includes the Dogs game where he got injured, so it may well be closer to 10 without that one.  He is only averaging around 3 clearances a game which is a little down but also reflective on a far stronger midfield.  

To suggest he get lots of cheapies out the back is quite disrespectful to the great man.

Edit - Jones averaged on half a contested possie more last season compared to this one, but he is down from averaging 5 clearances a game last season.  Again, I'd put that down to a stronger midfield, not that he isn't looking for the harder ball.

Edited August 12, 20178 yr by Wiseblood

8 minutes ago, SFebey said:

He is also guilty of lots of cheap handballs out the back of packs too, doesn't take the game on like he used to IMO. Not to mention and ordinary leader when the chips are down. Shows bad body language when we are getting pumped too. IMO the worst captain in the AFL but a Demonland favourite as he stuck fat when we were a rabble.

[censored] me!!!!!!

Just now, Bitter but optimistic said:

[censored] me!!!!!!

Name a worse one when their side is getting pumped?

37 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Name a worse one when their side is getting pumped?

You miss the point Febes! The notion of rating Captains is ridiculous. I'm sure we could find an image of any captain appearing , down, elated, depressed exulted etc. Captains suffer or excel with their teams.

Jones has had more reasons than most to be despondent yet week after week he continues to bust a gut. He is a bloke who you'd reckon deserved a "rest" occasionally yet he put together a string of 120 plus games before succumbing to an injury. He may not be a great verbal communicator but when it comes to leading by example, I'll back him against anyone.

In leadership, actions count

 

59 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Name a worse one when their side is getting pumped?

Shannon Hurn

5 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Interesting ( to me ) both  Salem and Watts have struggled since "recovering" from injuries.. Neither quite their former selves.

Chunk is nowhere near his self either.  Would Goody drop him as well ?

I'm not making excuses for anyone but Id like to know the reason that is causing this.

Jones has been back for one game FFS

14 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

You miss the point Febes! The notion of rating Captains is ridiculous. I'm sure we could find an image of any captain appearing , down, elated, depressed exulted etc. Captains suffer or excel with their teams.

Jones has had more reasons than most to be despondent yet week after week he continues to bust a gut. He is a bloke who you'd reckon deserved a "rest" occasionally yet he put together a string of 120 plus games before succumbing to an injury. He may not be a great verbal communicator but when it comes to leading by example, I'll back him against anyone.

In leadership, actions count

 

That's the thing, I think his actions are poor. Even Goodwin and peers thought he needed a joint partner in crime! 

6 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Shannon Hurn

Haha good point. 

1 hour ago, SFebey said:

Name a worse one when their side is getting pumped?

Pi$$ off... Your basing this on what, his body language when we are getting pumped ? I've sat through pretty much every game hes captained and never noticed it, I can cop that maybe he could do a better job at steeming the flow when the sides under the pump but he is one man, he can't do it alone... Put all that aside.. No'one absolutely no'one in the general public can question a captains leadership.. We see a couple of hours on a weekend, none of us have any idea how a captain leads during the week and behind the scenes so no he's not the "worst" captain in the leauge

Edited August 12, 20178 yr by JV7

8 minutes ago, JV7 said:

Pi$$ off... Your basing this on what, his body language when we are getting pumped ? I've sat through pretty much every game hes captained and never noticed it, I can cop that maybe he could do a better job at steeming the flow when the sides under the pump but he is one man, he can't do it alone... Put all that aside.. No'one absolutely no'one in the general public can question a captains leadership.. We see a couple of hours on a weekend, none of us have any idea how a captain leads during the week and behind the scenes so no he's not the "worst" captain in the leauge

Well sorry, I'm going to question continually. The St Kilda game earlier in the season and from memory the Crows game in Adelaide were standouts. I'm not knocking his endeavour, but he isn't a leader, chips down I'd back Viney, but not Jones to get us over the line. He's a B grader IMO 

Edited August 12, 20178 yr by SFebey

.

Edited August 12, 20178 yr by SFebey

1 hour ago, SFebey said:

Name a worse one when their side is getting pumped?

Marc Murphy

Jobe... His legacy remains.