9 hours ago, Abe said:

I think our best is in the best 4 teams in the comp but for a variety of reasons we can't sustain it over four quarters. I think the wheel is turning and at some point this year it will click and we will convert our dominance into wins. 

We have a good blend of experience and elite young talent, some good kicking skills emerging now but may struggle with no real ruck options in the short term 

I think watts has been our best player so far this year 

Agree with this, except that I'd say Oliver is so far ahead in the Bluey it's not funny.

8 hours ago, Abe said:

As it sits, the cats and tigers are undefeated top 4 sides and we dominated both for extended periods, at some point we will learn to convert that and start winning those games and that's why I am not as concened by being 2-3, even the crows and giants are teams we have recently played well against or beaten fairly regularly. 

Even if we don't play finals I am so much more confident in our direction now than I was last year 

Yep. Spot on, mate. The scales will tip soon enough.

16 hours ago, ViaLoop said:

It was noticeable on TV too. I just felt that someone should have stayed down with him. Two blokes going up for a spoil and it tips out the back, it never ends well.

The problem Melb has not just in the backline is.. they all fly for the mark.. while their opponents stay down.. I saw T.Mac Tyson & Frost all fly for the same ball in the last qtr.. especially stupid from Tyson.. 

"What I have learned" is the game is ever quickly moving past both Vince & Tyson.. Tyson more so. 

(I'm hoping Vince is pushing through that broken toe) But Tyson is SO SLOW!! We might as well play Trengove.

Edited April 25, 20178 yr by Mud Dogs Gonna Win

29 minutes ago, Mud Dogs Gonna Win said:

The problem Melb has not just in the backline is.. they all fly for the mark.. while their opponents stay down.. I saw T.Mac Tyson & Frost all fly for the same ball in the last qtr.. especially stupid from Tyson.. 

"What I have learned" is the game is ever quickly moving past both Vince & Tyson.. Tyson more so. 

(I'm hoping Vince is pushing through that broken toe) But Tyson is SO SLOW!! We might as well play Trengove.

Vince is almost back to his best though Tyson is still in a rut

3 hours ago, thesleepinggiant said:

Vince is almost back to his best though Tyson is still in a rut

Is it a case of Tyson getting out his rut by just working his way into the season due to his pre season?

23 hours ago, Mud Dogs Gonna Win said:

Couldn't agree more. I think only those who were at the game would of actually noticed this..

Yes....but

Another coaching/player anomaly?

Riewoldt has been playing closer to goal this year - why wasn't this observed, researched and acted upon?

Underwhelming stuff from our coaches and leaders

I think we are playing some great football and without the injuries and  suspensions we would have more wins.

Having Viney, Jones, Tyson, Vince all playing below their best bodes well.

Concerns are Hogan still sooking to the umps whilst the ball is still within meters of him. 

Minimal on field leadership is a massive worry. We have no Selwood type leader and it shows every week we get into trouble.

 

1 minute ago, Gorgoroth said:

I think we are playing some great football and without the injuries and  suspensions we would have more wins.

Having Viney, Jones, Tyson, Vince all playing below their best bodes well.

Concerns are Hogan still sooking to the umps whilst the ball is still within meters of him. 

Minimal on field leadership is a massive worry. We have no Selwood type leader and it shows every week we get into trouble.

 

All of that may well be true Gorgoroth but and it is a big BUT

We still don't win.

And winning is all that counts.

3 hours ago, old dee said:

All of that may well be true Gorgoroth but and it is a big BUT

We still don't win.

And winning is all that counts.

True. But a few years ago I just wanted them to compete and be in games, I know have that and want more but I must also remember this is the first year of us playing attacking football and we are doing I well of big periods, soon that will be full games, I think we will go on a winning run of 4-5 games this year.

10 hours ago, thesleepinggiant said:

Vince is almost back to his best though Tyson is still in a rut

Vince is no where near his best...

On 25/04/2017 at 10:28 AM, jumbo returns said:

Good summary

........

Thank heavens Jordan Lewis comes in next week

Haven't lost with him: haven't won without him. 

He needs to learn he is no longer at Hawthorn so won't get away with anything anymore 

On 25/04/2017 at 2:42 PM, mrtwister said:

And his best one last night was when he was on the ground and managed to hit jones over his right shoulder who was wide open and about to run off and deliver it upfield when they called it back for a throw. I thought it was legit but I was watching it on tv. Anyone at the game get a better look at it? 

I think it is a matter of the umpires thinking ( and I know that is a rare occurrence) not that he threw it but that nobody could possibly have handballed it correctly.  

Just thought i would throw this weighted stats comparative data in to the mix now we are 5 rounds in. Using public AFL stats is always fraught with many flaws and should never be used to judge where anyone is at absolutely & in isolation, but just an interesting comparison this year to last to see how players are tracking using the exact same method and formula. The weighted score includes things like clangers, goals, rebound 50s, inside 50s, contested marks, effective disposals, tackles etc and has been fairly accurate at getting most of the best players on the day in some sort of rough similar order to how they actually went (ruckmen excluded) with occasional anomalies, which is to be expected.

Have not included hit outs as this is usually only isolated to 2 or 3 players and no way of carving out 'hit outs to advantage' from public stats so take no notice of full time ruckmen rankings as they are badly skewed. Watts being severely impacted here of late obviously and Maxy would have easily finished in our top 5 or so last year of course. What it does show though is how they went in other areas of the match vs others but of course with much less time and energy to spend. A big disadvantage obviously for someone like Watts.

What a huge jump from Clarry, Salem, Kent, Hunt, Jeffy and ANB in particular vs 2016.

Viney a fair way off his 2017 average and Tyson a long way off to this point (pre season woes?). Jones was quite close to Clarry before his Rnd 5 performance against the Tiges.

2017 Average Weighted Score / Ranking (to Rnd 5)

Clayton Oliver	5.40	1
Nathan Jones	4.89	2
Bernie Vince	4.04	3
Jack Viney	3.89	4
Christian Salem	3.89	5
Billy Stretch	3.81	6
Jordan Lewis	3.55	7
Dean Kent	3.43	8
Alex N-Bullen	3.39	9
James Harmes	3.38	10
Jayden Hunt	3.38	10
Christian Petracca	3.33	12
Tom McDonald	3.24	13
Jesse Hogan	3.11	14
Jack Watts	3.07*	15
Dom Tyson	3.01	16
Jeff Garlett	2.89	17
Neville Jetta	2.73	18
Sam Frost	2.68	19
Oscar McDonald	2.57	20
Jake Melksham	2.55	21
Angus Brayshaw	2.51	22
Mitchell Hannan	1.81	23
Max Gawn	1.69*	24
Sam Weideman	1.13	25

 

2016 Average Weighted Score / Ranking inclusive (to Rnd 21)

Nathan Jones	4.60	1
Jack Grimes	4.50	2
Jack Viney	4.17	3
Dom Tyson	4.15	4
Bernie Vince	3.76	5
Matt Jones	3.52	6
Tom McDonald	3.46	7
Clayton Oliver	3.33	8
Tomas Bugg	3.24	9
Jack Watts	3.23*	10
Billy Stretch	3.08	11
Christian Salem	2.98	12
Neville Jetta	2.97	13
Lynden Dunn	2.94	14
James Harmes	2.92	15
Dean Kent	2.90	16
Christian Petracca	2.88	17
Jesse Hogan	2.83	18
Ben Newton	2.80	19
Oscar McDonald	2.77	20
Ben Kennedy	2.76	21
Heritier Lumumba	2.75	22
Max Gawn	2.72*	23
Angus Brayshaw	2.72	24
Joshua Wagner	2.68	25
Jayden Hunt	2.63	26
Aaron Vandenberg	2.60	27
Cameron Pedersen	2.51*	28
Viv Michie	2.33	29
Jeff Garlett	2.25	30
Colin Garland	2.10	31
Alex Neil-Bullen	1.98	32
Sam Frost	1.89	33
Sam Weideman	1.80	34
Chris Dawes	1.78*	35

Only players who have played at least 2 or more matches are shown. I have not included Tim Smith or Spencil in 2017 stats as neither have played out 2 full matches to this point, both being injured very early on in their 2^nd match.

*Skewed as no hit out stats included. Eg., Maxy would obviously be rated much higher than 23 for 2016 and Watts somewhat higher for both 2016, 2017 etc.

On 25/04/2017 at 5:20 PM, jumbo returns said:

Sigh

Heard that before

Sigh?

On 25/04/2017 at 5:20 PM, jumbo returns said:

Sigh

Heard that before

Sadly jr I can only concur.

Talk is cheap the only thing I am interested in is actions.

1 hour ago, Steve13 said:

Sigh?

groan