Will they place a tariff on products which are bought online?  In today's global economy, tariffs just never work.  But here's an idea.  How about trying some innovation and having the guts to look at the long term future?  Nah, that would never work, would it.

They can spend billions to increase their arsenal, but are unable to fund innovation and infrastructure? Go figure.

 

5 hours ago, nutbean said:

Let me widen the scope - anyone who starts a sentence with either of those phrases is usually telling fibs.

 

or, his name is George Brandis...

18 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Don't get me wrong I agree with you it's just the market can't take its course.

Know idea how it will play out when tariffs are put in place. I don't think it will magically re-create old industries and jobs.

Certainly agree with this - I reckon that's why Trump will have an issue in a few years. The tariffs alone aren't enough to bring back those particular jobs IMO. He has to do something else as well to full-fill this promise. Since it's where he got his swing from, it's vital to his re-election that he gets those jobs back.

I think this issue will be his most important - more than the wall or Muslim bans or his plan to defeat ISIS in 30 days. If he brings those jobs back, he wins another term. If he doesn't, there will be a massive backlash from those who elected him to do just that. They're the people who didn't get their jobs back in the economic recovery, they felt forgotten and then finally heard when Trump came along. It was Clinton's biggest folly to ignore them and she paid dearly for it. Trump simply must deliver on this.

 

Edit - just re-read my post and there's a lot of redundancy in there. Sorry all for the poor wording.

Edited March 8, 20178 yr by Choke

On 3/6/2017 at 6:31 PM, Choke said:

Are you kidding?

You seriously think it's more likely Obama was spying on Trump than the FBI was conducting routine monitoring of foreign powers?

You said just now, the tapes clearly exist. Do you actually believe they exist because Obama managed to find some formerly unknown method for a President to spy on political rivals (and that he was idiotic enough to use it), or that the FBI was just doing its job and checking out Russia's communications?

I believe the claim for 2 reasons:

1 - it was the explanation provided by the source
2 - the alternative is ludicrous

 

Of course nothing is certain - but as I said, this is the beginning of the investigation. We'll just have to see how it plays out.

 

Sorry to reply to this again Choke, particularly, after I said I wouldn't but in light of the wikileaks dump overnight I can't help myself.

In regards to number 2 above it now seems the CIA have the capability to mimic foreign spyware and even make it seem as though the hacking is being executed by that foreign power.

I don't like Assange and don't trust him but none the less he swears the Russians didn't leak to him during the election campaign.

I can't keep up with who is spying on who and who is leaking on who and what is real and what is fake news. Ordinarily, I'd trust the New President who came in promising to drain the swamp but he is potentially the least trustworthy of them all.

 

25 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Sorry to reply to this again Choke, particularly, after I said I wouldn't but in light of the wikileaks dump overnight I can't help myself.

In regards to number 2 above it now seems the CIA have the capability to mimic foreign spyware and even make it seem as though the hacking is being executed by that foreign power.

I don't like Assange and don't trust him but none the less he swears the Russians didn't leak to him during the election campaign.

I can't keep up with who is spying on who and who is leaking on who and what is real and what is fake news. Ordinarily, I'd trust the New President who came in promising to drain the swamp but he is potentially the least trustworthy of them all.

 

Yeah in light of the most recent development I must agree.

Trump does seem to be blessed by the leaks every time.

I don't know if that is a fluke or more sinister.

 

Yeah.

Honestly the whole thing's starting to get kinda scary.

I was much more comfortable when it was just the Russians. But the possibility of the CIA pretending to be Russians to influence a presidential election would have been more akin to a spy novel a few years ago. Now it warrants actual investigation.

Hell, maybe it was still the Russians - even the possibility that it was the CIA gives them cover and achieves their supposed aim of destabilising US Democracy.

This really could devolve into red under the bed style McCarthyism.

Must be tough to be an American right now.

5 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Trump does seem to be blessed by the leaks every time.

I don't know if that is a fluke or more sinister.

 

The 'Deep State' at work Wrecker? haha

There's not a lot of relevant data to prove that these sort of organisations do actually exist but if 'certain' agenda's need to be fulfilled then Trump is just the type to be able to deliver ... within reason of course as the leash can be tightened when applicable.

Nothing would surprise me and going right back before Nixon & Watergate, dirty tricks from both sides were an almost accepted practice.  Nixon just went too far and his own paranoia got the better of him.

Trump's phones may well have been tapped and if so, Trump might have just jumped to the conclusion that Obama knew about it.  Or, it's just a load of bs.  Who knows?  It's an amazing allegation to make about the immediate past president but even if there's no truth at all to the allegation, no one will care. 

The latest wikileaks with regards to the CIA can't be disregarded. 

 

 

33 minutes ago, Choke said:

Must be tough to be an American right now.

didn't that lot all move to canada, choke?

12 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

didn't that lot all move to canada, choke?

Ah yes the Hollywood brigade.

Pretty sure the total move count is zero.

4 hours ago, daisycutter said:

didn't that lot all move to canada, choke?

I'm off to Canada in April and popping over the border to NYC for a few days... will be interesting to see if the mood of the place is any different to the last time I was there about 4 years ago.  Canada has now introduced an eTA (Electronic Travel Authorization - similar to the US eSTA)... maybe they're trying to control the flow of immigrants from across the border

https://www.wired.com/2017/03/wikileaks-cia-dump-gives-russian-hacking-deniers-perfect-ammo/

This pretty much sums up the wikileaks and the surrounding politics from the above article:

it has unleashed a cloud of confusion that makes it hard for experts to discern the facts and easy for non-experts to see whatever they want.

10 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

https://www.wired.com/2017/03/wikileaks-cia-dump-gives-russian-hacking-deniers-perfect-ammo/

This pretty much sums up the wikileaks and the surrounding politics from the above article:

it has unleashed a cloud of confusion that makes it hard for experts to discern the facts and easy for non-experts to see whatever they want.

For the record I fall into the non-expert category who sees whatever I want.

Russia had zero to do with the US election or the hacking of the DNC.

I feel sorry for anyone thats falling for the desperate democrats strategy of blaming Russia for their own demise.

Putin must be the happiest man on earth that Hillary and Obama are now irrelevant.

Also Trump is doing a brilliant job as president, but you wouldnt know that if you get your news from hacks like CNN, John Oliver and Stephen colbert.

Edited March 13, 20178 yr by Petraccattack

11 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Russia had zero to do with the US election or the hacking of the DNC.

I feel sorry for anyone thats falling for the desperate democrats strategy of blaming Russia for their own demise.

Putin must be the happiest man on earth that Hillary and Obama are now irrelevant.

Also Trump is doing a brilliant job as president, but you wouldnt know that if you get your news from hacks like CNN, John Oliver and Stephen colbert.

back away slowly nutbean......don't make eye contact

5 minutes ago, nutbean said:

back away slowly nutbean......don't make eye contact

By the way, are you in Wheal estate?

4 minutes ago, nutbean said:

back away slowly nutbean......don't make eye contact

 

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/22335

Podesta was emailing out his username and password ...  but yeah it was the Russians lol

And a quote from that fraud Obama from his 2012 campaign when Romney mentioned Russia   -  “The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because you know, the Cold War has been over for 20 years.”

Maybe he should follow his own advice.

I mist admit i find it funny when people blame "fake news" for the democrats loss. The Podesta emails crushed them and are about as real news as you can get.

2 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

I mist admit i find it funny when people blame "fake news" for the democrats loss. The Podesta emails crushed them and are about as real news as you can get.

I think most with a centered view of the US election would suggest that the primary reason the Democrats lost was people were sick of the Washington spin, Hillary Clinton had enough luggage to send a 747 into a nosedive. her strategy of saying little and letting Trump hang himself failed (even though Trump did give it his best shot to hang himself) and Trump himself, whose narrative appealed to a lot of Americans.

I don't think there is a claim of Podesta's emails being fake news is there ? - rather the claim is of hacking of real news. 

I think the intelligence agencies, with oversight of congressional committees replete with Democrats and Republicans have established that the Russians indeed were involved in hacking. What effect it had is anybody's guess. Bottom line is that Hillary was a poor choice.

 

1 hour ago, nutbean said:

I think most with a centered view of the US election would suggest that the primary reason the Democrats lost was people were sick of the Washington spin, Hillary Clinton had enough luggage to send a 747 into a nosedive. her strategy of saying little and letting Trump hang himself failed (even though Trump did give it his best shot to hang himself) and Trump himself, whose narrative appealed to a lot of Americans.

I don't think there is a claim of Podesta's emails being fake news is there ? - rather the claim is of hacking of real news. 

I think the intelligence agencies, with oversight of congressional committees replete with Democrats and Republicans have established that the Russians indeed were involved in hacking. What effect it had is anybody's guess. Bottom line is that Hillary was a poor choice.

 

Podesta's emails were as real as they come. That was my point blaming "fake news" was funny.

The hacking is alledged to be by the Russians. Julian Assange who leaked it swears it wasn't, not that i trust him. There is no proof it was the Russians just as there is no proof Trump had his "wire tapped".

It's a shame the media have no high horse to complain from.

We are all dirtbags nows.

Calling someone else a racist just doesn't work anymore .

Maybe they will need to form a proper argument based on some sort of logic.

Hack scum.

12 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

Podesta's emails were as real as they come. That was my point blaming "fake news" was funny.

The hacking is alledged to be by the Russians. Julian Assange who leaked it swears it wasn't, not that i trust him. There is no proof it was the Russians just as there is no proof Trump had his "wire tapped".

Two points

- I haven't  read anywhere where the Podesta's emails were labelled as fake news. Who was blaming it as fake news ?

 - whether you trust the intelligence community or not, drawing the comparison of no Russian hacking with no wiretapping ordered by Obama is a stretch. The intelligence agencies have apparently presented copious quantities of intelligence that does point to the Russians whereas the FBI director and the former head of national intelligence have both been reported as saying there is no evidence that Obama ordered the wiretapping of Trump.  

2 hours ago, nutbean said:

Two points

- I haven't  read anywhere where the Podesta's emails were labelled as fake news. Who was blaming it as fake news ?

I think Wrecker was making a joke nut.

2 hours ago, nutbean said:

Two points

- I haven't  read anywhere where the Podesta's emails were labelled as fake news. Who was blaming it as fake news ?

 - whether you trust the intelligence community or not, drawing the comparison of no Russian hacking with no wiretapping ordered by Obama is a stretch. The intelligence agencies have apparently presented copious quantities of intelligence that does point to the Russians whereas the FBI director and the former head of national intelligence have both been reported as saying there is no evidence that Obama ordered the wiretapping of Trump.  

Nut - I'm not saying anyone said the Podesta emails were fake news. Just pointing out how so many Democrats blame fake news for the loss yet the loss was in large due to the most real news you can get. However, illegal. I know there is much more to it but I do see an irony there. Was just trying to point that out.

On your second point there is enough evidence and counter evidence to argue any point in the hacking. It probably was the Russians. The security agencies are pointing their finger that way but then the CIA seems to have a leak within and that leak shows they can hack and leave other countries fingerprints on it. As I understand the DOJ have still have yet to confirm or deny a wiretap on Trump. They were very quick to say there was nothing to see here about Clintons illegal home server. I smell a rat.

Wrecker, re your last point, about Clinton's home server. By the time they said that, the damage had been done. Releasing the information about a new probe a week out from the election was (as far as I can recall, which may not be far) a real game changer - derailed her campaign - refocused attention on the "Crooked Hillary" thing.